@CountRaven

Ambient has made quite a huge progress since MorphOS 0.x or even 1.x times. Even the "official" 1.4.5 Ambient is very limited compared to he version included in 2.x. For me, it is one of the best desktop solutions available for any OS, miles ahead of the good old Workbench.

And there is still room for improvement.

@ Zylesea ad analogkid:

Yes I totally agree with you! ambient rules, it is fats and smooth! The best environment to work with!

As far as that name of course it was not Workbench the name that was mentioned din this little irc conversation. Perhaps the subject was not about an environment after all. It could be for an OS that was the father of MorphOS? I can not remember....

If anyone has any screen shots of those early MorphOS versions it would be great to post.

@CountRaven

Ambient was called zwb at first.

Yeeeeeeeeeah that was the name!!!!!

So this was the first name of Ambient.

fingers crossed.

@CountRaven

Personally, I never touched the pre-1.0 versions of MorphOS on Amiga/PowerUP (I didn't have the required PowerUP hardware), but AFAIK (as has been said by others as well), MorphOS used the original Workbench back then, as well as other components from AmigaOS. I think you booted MorphOS and it simply used AmigaOS to fill whatever gaps that was still there as evolution progressed. MorphOS was made for Amigans, by Amigans, on Amigas!

Quote:

Ambient in MorphOS 1.0 to 1.3 on the Pegasos wasn't much to show IMHO. Back then most people used Workbench or dopus magellan instead. This changed somewhat with v1.4.0, but especially after Ambient went open source things began to really happen to the evolution, and I somewhat seriously doubt that anyone is using the old WB today in MorphOS 2.2...

Quote:

I might have a prompt look at it on a local party but unfortunately can't remember much.

So I'll have to make sure about one thing, it doesn't resemble Windows' Start > Programs stuff, right? I HATE it, it's too popular on every Linux I've touched yet.

@DiskDoctor

No, it's completely different. It has some aspects in common with Mac OS X as with AmigaOS 3.x, but it has got its own kind of identity. Regarding Linux, well, you might have come across the wrong window managers on it, because KDE is much like Windows (i hate KDE ), but there are many more, which could fit your need, but they need some extra work. Personally I like the XFce4-Desktop very much (e.g. as in XUbuntu).

Quote:

Of course. everyone use ambient!

Yay,

You can add me to the list. :)

1.5Ghz Mac mini !

Czk

Quote:

The world is splitted in two: who use and enjoy ambient, and who would pay to have a port of it also if teh workbench is teh real and reaction si better than mui 11111

[ Edited by maurensen on 2009/5/6 19:21 ]

Quote:

I was actually interested for another reason, because if you look at the comments for the first beta it becomes very clear that the whole reason there was a Red/Blue divide at all was due to lack of any kind of WarpOS migration strategy (even a 'kludge' like Ralph said). Oh the benefit of hindsight!

Was that what it was? Well thanks for clearing that up.

@HenryCase

I don't see it like that. I don't think the routes of the red/blue nonsense lie in the lack of WarpOS support. Rather it is down to intolerance and narrow mindedness from certain people and the promotion of certain agendas by other people. The latter fueled the former.
I'd like to hope that however it came about it is over now.

Quote:

The causes for the Red/Blue split have been buried in time, but that old news link makes it pretty clear to me that it was a big deciding factor. You can see Hyperion looking for some indication that WarpUP would be supported in the future, if their Amiga product line at the time relied on WarpUP/WarpOS why wouldn't they look for this support?

Quote:

Narrow mindedness of whom though?

I agree that the worst of it is over, thankfully.

[ Edited by HenryCase on 2009/5/7 13:50 ]

[ Edited by HenryCase on 2009/5/7 13:51 ]

@HenryCase

Read the other threads... Zuikkis added WarpUP support to MorphOS years before Hyperion even attempted to write their own MorphOS clone.

Quote:

Ah, thank you, my mistake.

@HenryCase

Quote:

You know, MorphOS was originally meant to kind of be the new "OS4" and the Pegasos was originally meant to be the AmigaOne (the proper stand-alone version as opposed to the "dongle" for classic Amigas that Eyetech had fantasies about). But that was before a certain "lawyer" from a Belgian game publisher company entered the scene. And I think his actions (before as well as after Feb 2001) could have had more to do with the "divide" than anything else.

Let's add a few things from ANN.lu to the same time line as the above links, just for reference:

09-Dec-2000: bPlan announce Pegasos
23-Feb-2001: bplan anounces first Pegasos hardware

I think somewhere prior to this point (possibly much prior?), things started to go bad in the "negotiations" between the MorphOS Team/bPlan, and Amiga Inc, probably influenced by the Belgian lawyer who doubtlessly had some plans of his own. The post of April the 5th below indicates that the relations between the MorphOS team and Amiga Inc ended in February 2001, if not prior to that.

01-Apr-2001: AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! (now made by H&P + Hyperion)

01-Apr-2001: Fleecys Explanations:
Part 1 ("Amiga Inc will bring management and control of the AmigaOS back inhouse", I wonder why Hyperion was so surprised about this later on?),
Part 2 (bPlan AmigaOne ),
Part 3 (notice the third paragraph from top. Interesting IMO. Also the first comment from Darrin, which could possibly be seen as the first of many of the "I'll follow the trade mark" kind, the beginning of a public divide).

05-Apr-2001: More On The MorphOS. It strikes me how much of this that turned out to be 100% true now when we have seen the history played out (and that goes for this post as well).

When Amiga Inc and Hyperion noticed that MorphOS simply didn't roll over and die after Amiga Inc/Hyperion and the MorphOS Team went separate ways, they got kind of mean and things got rather ugly (I'm not going to soil this site with details, but if you want some taste of it, you can get a few samples here (you could remove "benhermans" in the URL for some more)), at least in public forums, and this lasted until Amiga Inc went into its current state of hibernation, Eyetech wen't belly up, and Hyperion/OS4 got trapped in its current legal situation. Also, when reading those quotes from "the lawyer", the irony is striking, isn't it? Karma is real!

> if you look at the comments for the first beta it becomes very clear
> that the whole reason there was a Red/Blue divide at all was due to
> lack of any kind of WarpOS migration strategy

If that was true, all Amigans would have stood like one behind MorphOS half a year later. MorphOS 3rd beta came with WarpOS (and Warp3D) support (see link provided on page 13 of this thread) two months before development of OS4 (= the former OS4 project led by Amiga Inc. themselves) was even announced.

Quote:
You are right. What I would not underestimate is the number of "educated" (read: not just keen on Amiga 500 gaming) ex-Amiga users that passed to Mac in the late nineties or in the 21st century. I do not want to indicate millions of users or hundred of thousands... but a few hundreds that might be curious are a realistic bet.
I still don't have a Mini, but I am definitely following with great interest, BTW.

Kind regards,
Andrea

Quote:
In particular the third thread (corresponding to the third MorphOS beta) is really interesting in perspective.

Kind regards,
Andrea

> the Pegasos was originally meant to be the AmigaOne (the proper
> stand-alone version as opposed to the "dongle" for classic Amigas
> that Eyetech had fantasies about).

From your link:

"The system can actually run without the A1200/A4000 motherboard."

So it's clear that the Escena AmigaOne was supposed to be operated stand-alone optionally, and the Pegasos was meant to be just *one* of several "AmigaOnes".
After all, originally the AmigaOne was just a "reference design" by Amiga Inc's then "Director of Hardware" Dean Brown, which was anounced in June 2000 in Neuss/Germany and to be implemented by third parties (later on, this led to the infamous "Zico specs"). At AmiWest 2000, McEwen announced the first implementation of Amiga Inc's AmigaOne "reference design" to be released in December 2000. AFAIR, he didn't tell who the implementing party was supposed to be.

> The post of April the 5th below indicates that the relations
> between the MorphOS team and Amiga Inc ended in February 2001, if
> not prior to that.

Yes, temporarily. Final (2nd) negotiations failed in August 2001 according to Ralph Schmidt (see "Party on").

> "Amiga Inc will bring management and control of the AmigaOS back
> inhouse", I wonder why Hyperion was so surprised about this later on?

Because Hyperion's own OS4 endeavor started with the funeral of the project that quotation refers to?

i think the "camp-thing" is as close als old as Amiga itself.
MUI <-> non MUI
GGX-P96
Pup<->WOS
ans so forth...

I thinlk the PowerUp<-> WarpOS issue was the biggest camp divider. WOS was incompatible to PowerUP. Some certain S.H. was calling names on PowerUP ("elf is a monster") and so on.
But in the end, who cares? Today there are still some strange folks in the Amiga/MorphOS
shared cosmos and a few have disqualified themselves for the foreseable future, but *most* of the times AS & MorphOS ppl meet each other in real life they enjoy the shared time. This entire camp thing is definitely more dramatic on the net, than in RL.

I am soooooooo glad that I was not keeping closer track of what was going on back then. I knew that there were some disagreements and that there was a split between PowerUP and WarpUP developers and later between the MorphOS and AmigaOS(tm) camps, but I never bothered to visit all the sites where the really hot and nasty name calling were going on. It was pretty tame on Amiga.org where I spent most of my time gathering Amiga related news at that time while all my Amigas were in storage.

After I started getting involved again and took my collection out and started using them again, the Red vs Blue war was mostly over by then and I was not interested in reading all about the past arguments. I think there is enough blame to go around to many different people, but it is truly the Amiga community that ended up the loser. MorphOS or AmigaOS4.x could have been so much better in a shorter time frame if only some kind of agreement could have been made.

Human nature just seems work against us having cooperation in so many places and ways.


edit: spelling

[ Edited by amigadave on 2009/5/7 20:30 ]

|||

[ Edited by Velcro_SP 30.07.2011 - 09:35 ]

Quote:

I think "clone" in the case above wasn't meant to mean "identical replicate", but rather something like "wannabe"...

Quote:

No, not yet. But at some point not too long ago, a box design was announced by the Friedens for the future (which was kind of funny, since this is something MorphOS was flamed for during several years). Maybe they are working on that now, and maybe that is the reason why ssolie all of the sudden shows up here and trying to convince us all how much we really miss the "Q-box"? I guess we will see in time...