Hi All,

I am new to the MorphOS world. Sorry if I come across as an annoying newbie. But, I have become very excited about amiga for the first time in a while since reading all about MorphOS 2.0. I am really interested in buying an Efika board and running 2.0 on it.

I cannot seem to find any discussion or announcements about actual status or any guestimated ETAs. Anyone got anything like that?

Thanks!

Dave

[ Edited by jiffydos on 2007/8/3 6:44 ]

Jacek

Seriously, speaking for a lot of ppl in the community I think its time for some sort of feature set or announcement from MOS Team. why is this taking so long?

Quote:

Because it's still not ready.

Quote:
Okay, how about a feature list of features that ARE already ready?

(or likely will be by release)

I'm the wrong person to ask ;) Don't even remember what was in 1.4.5 to be able to compare.

It's normal in software development to go into a "feature freeze" mode - no new features are added and the developers purely work on testing and bug fixing. Following that is release.

I guess you're going to tell me MorphOS isn't normal! Any chance you can tell us roughly how many new features need to be added before feature freeze or are MorphOS team already in test mode ?

Some stuff is frozen, some still isn't. Hard to tell how much :)

I guess Ambient also still needs to be polished.

Still not able to save certain drawer state on certain Icontypes(,think it was Glowicons. (Like show all files, etc).

Anyway, we got the feature list from jcmarcos :/

Quote:

I always wonder why ppl don't see the forest because of all the trees...

If you lock closer and carefully you'll notice that probably 80% of all MorphOS 2.0 features are publicaly known already. Just because they are not written at one single place it doesn't mean it's not known at all. Sometimes it sounds like ppl know nothing about MorphOS 2.0 at all... which is very weird, IMHO.

Some things which are definitevely known in the public already (and not written in jcmarcos list): altivec support, bunch of new shared libraries (z.library to name one), 64bit support in dos (as leaked with the ambient source release), mouse pointer prefs, new skins (as seen in screenshots) etc. just to name a few. If someone actually would make the work and collect all this publically known facts you'll would get a list wich is at least 20-40 times larger (I'm sure) than the few bits jcmarcos wrote down.

Just look closely to certain MorphOS software releases were some features are noted to only work on MorphOS 1.5 or better and do the math. Or read answers to bug reports on the MorphOS mailing list and do the math (there are tons of bugfixes in MorphOS and thats IMHO a much more important 'feature' than e.g. TCP/IP support IMHO). Just do the math. :)


Here a recent example:
http://www.binaryriot.org/shuffle/ As you can read the game will be included for free in next MorphOS release. Thats another point on the featurelist. Now check it'S requirements and what is included: Lamp.mcc and Aboutbox.mcc. Do the math and you'll see if Shuffle is included in MorphOS 2.0 these 2 classes must be included too (they do not exists in MorphOS 1.4.x release). Thats another 2 points on your feature list.

Now do this math for all the bits leaked and publiced in the last years.

I don't think you'll can expect more information from the MorphOS team than this. If you're want a presentation of all this information and facts on a silver tablett you don't see how much extra time this eats which actually could spend to work on the OS to finish it.


regards,
tokai

@Tokai

devs speak to devs...
from a striclty user point of view what's the point in knowing that some libs with weird names are added to the system? Still i don't call it a feature, but some technical information that users don't care about. And what's the point in inviting the users for a libs and features hunt though readme files ?

Now it is true that some features had been unveiled here in this forum, and by gathering information we can get quite an idea about Mos 2.0.

you know what the morphos team needs IMO? someone able to set himself at a user level and communicate in name of the team. That would save this task from the devs, I agree they shouldn't waste some coding time talking here. But someones else could do it.

As it was said here, most devs have mos 2.0 anyway, so who will buy MOS licences ? USERS . These are the ones to be taken into consideration, even if most devs think it's futile.

What can one do more than to actually list a bunch of features when it's requested? Seems it's not enough.
So I guess we can put the "feature list" thingy to history then because even if its done it wouldn't be enough anyway?

regards,
tokai
(going back to some real work)

Update (obvious features, reason for no feature list):


General:

- Release date: icon_whendone.gif.

- Will cost money. Different amounts have been mentioned, heavily discussed, and even polled.

- Will have some form of online registration system, for which an internet connection will be mandatory. The registration is on a per-machine basis, so a user with two machines will most likely have to buy two licenses.



Hardware support:

- Does run on the Efika (it has been shown several times already).

- Does have "the same support for Pegasos I as Pegasos II" has. "MorphOS developers also have Pegasos I".

- Will possibly have a version for Amigas with PowerPC accelerators, but not as a commercial product (Jacek "jacadcaps" Pisczcek: "If it gets released, it would continue being released on the same terms as before and not as a boxed product").


Features:

- Feature set will be available when the release preparation is done. As it's widely known, developers are not interested in spending time informing users, and consider actual development more important. So most features have to be gathered from evidence out there.

- Has AltiVec support.

- Has different graphics functions ("layers3d"), that allow for hardware accelerated windows, as can be seen on Geit's site. This "3Dlayers" feature "requires a Radeon with at least 64 MB".

- Has Reggae integrated into Ambient (Grzegorz "Krashan" Kraszewski: "Reggae is a part of MorphOS 2.0. Most of Reggae decoders are faster than datatypes. If AltiVec is not available, Reggae switches to non-AltiVec routines. Reggae enabled Ambient uses datatypes too. If Reggae does not recognize a file, datatypes are the next try".

- Does have 64 bit support in the filesystem.

- Does have native TCP/IP support, as can be seen in the Efika presentation held at the SceneCON 2k7 party.

- Has an early "startup menu", as can be seen on Geit's site.

- Does have sound support.

- Does have several MUI custom classes, used by some programs, included.

- Does have several utility libraries, used by some programs, included.

@jcmarcos

64-bit support in DOS

A new or at least updated HDconfig tool

Significant updates to the USB stack and the way it is implemented in MorphOS

Most certainly the Marvell gigabit ethernet driver for the Pegasos 2

Fully working shut-down function (with Power Off).

MUI4 "Final" (which really deserves a feature list of its own)

Heavily improved Ambient since the 1.4 release (which really deserves a feature list of its own)

Updated sound system (AHI) since the 1.4 release

Reworked/improved system preferences tool

I'm pretty sure I recall someone said way back (years) that the skin-system would be reworked and improved for the 1.5 release, so that new skins would be required.

I would *expect* an updated printing system (that is - latest TurboPrint)

+everything that has been relesed as separate updates since the 1.4 release

Quote:

..more importantly, has specialized AltiVec acceleration in several areas of the system. (IE, MorphOS becomes even faster if you have a CPU with AltiVec)

Quote:

DOS != FileSystem (besides, which filesystem are you talking about? :P )

Quote:

Not actually a new feature though, just not previously accessible on Pegasos (some PowerUP users might have found it) due to how video was inited...

Quote:

Also by MorphOS itself (f.ex. datatypes use various of the new libs, and Freetype 2 is its own shared library now (instead of embedded in ft2.library bullet engine), and this library in turn uses z.library, etc), which means less memory consumption (before they would have to be statically linked everywhere) as well as readily available, frequently used (these are very common libs), code.

Quote:

Don't. Atleast at this point in time we have no renewed agreement with Irseesoft that would allow us to include the latest TurboPrint...


- CISC

@jcmarcos

This is a report of MorphOS 1.5 from the 2004 edition of the PUSH event (some things has already been released):

* Better 3D support:
- Support for Radeon 7000/7200/7500
- Voodoo more than twice as fast as in 1.4
- Support for SiS 6326/300
- More to come

* Improved MUI

* Optical Audio Out

* Blankers:
- built in support
- support for monitor power savings
- 2D and 3D blankers

* New shared libraries:
- freetype.library
- z.library
- png.library
- avcodec.library
- avformat.library

* Altivec support:
- Altivec usage in various system components
- 3rd party application support: e.g. mplayer, dnetc, etc.
- Development support for Altivec (new GCC, new binutils)

* System improvemts:
- Shutdown support
- Enhanced support for pluggable schedulers
- New harddisk partitioner

* Intuition improvments:
- More skinnability
- Improved hotkey support
- Automatic screenmode promotion
- Multimonitor support

* Cybergraphics improvements

http://www.morphos-news.de/index.php?lg=en&nid=764&si=1


In the 2005 edition of PUSH, this was reported:

"Mark (bigfoot) Olsen [...] told us he had 2D drivers ready for Radeon 9800, and was working on 3D drivers for this card."

http://www.pegasos.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=485



[ Edited by takemehomegrandma on 2007/7/31 8:26 ]

Quote:

Quote:

http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=764&answer=9&page=9&cdir=2

Quote:

Hehe, it might sound silly, but in a way it is (indirectly)... ;)

Quote:

This list has grown considerably since then... ;)

Quote:

As mentioned already then this may or may not happen, it all depends on how much free time I have to review current (avcodec/format) API stability...


- CISC

Quote:
That already works on MorphOS 1.4.5, at least for me.

Unless you mean it's "enhanced" in some way, such as being able to change volume output level.

Which reminds me, it would be nice to see enhanced PegasosMixer too, firstly, it would be really nice, if it would actually save the settings... Also the interface could be "a bit" better. Maybe even integrate SB mixer functionality?

Also I assume that calculator would work in the next release

Quote:

IIRC we finally include the full-featured (and more to the point; working) scientific calculator; MCalc.


- CISC

I hope they release large file support.

It would make backing up to a file an option again...

Matt

Update (lots of features, thanks to takemehomegrandma and CISC):


General:

- Release date: icon_whendone.gif.

- Will cost money. Different amounts have been mentioned, heavily discussed, and even polled.

- Will have some form of online registration system, for which an internet connection will be mandatory. The registration is on a per-machine basis, so a user with two machines will most likely have to buy two licenses.



Hardware support:

- Does run on the Efika (it has been shown several times already).

- Does have "the same support for Pegasos I as Pegasos II" has. "MorphOS developers also have Pegasos I".

- Will possibly have a version for Amigas with PowerPC accelerators, but not as a commercial product (Jacek "jacadcaps" Pisczcek: "If it gets released, it would continue being released on the same terms as before and not as a boxed product").


Features:

- Feature set will be available when the release preparation is done. As it's widely known, developers are not interested in spending time informing users, and consider actual development more important. So most features have to be gathered from evidence out there.

- Does have AltiVec acceleration in several areas of the system, and support for it in development tools.

- Does have enhanced support for pluggable schedulers.

- Does have different graphics functions ("layers3d"), that allow for hardware accelerated windows, as can be seen on Geit's site. This "3Dlayers" feature "requires a Radeon with at least 64 MB".

- Does have support for ATi 9800 graphics cards.

- Does have multiple monitor support.

- Does have Reggae integrated into Ambient (Grzegorz "Krashan" Kraszewski: "Reggae is a part of MorphOS 2.0. Most of Reggae decoders are faster than datatypes. If AltiVec is not available, Reggae switches to non-AltiVec routines. Reggae enabled Ambient uses datatypes too. If Reggae does not recognize a file, datatypes are the next try".

- Does have 64 bit support in DOS.

- Does have a new or updated hard disk configuration tool.

- Does have significant updates in the USB stack, and the way it's implemented.

- Does have native TCP/IP support, as can be seen in the Efika presentation held at the SceneCON 2k7 party.

- Does have support for the Marvell Discovery gigabit ethernet port.

- Does have an early "startup menu", as can be seen on Geit's site.

- Does have an improved system preferences tool.

- Does have sound support, with improved AHI system, and optical audio output.

- Does have a final release of MUI, version 4.

- Does have several MUI custom classes, used by some programs, included.

- Does have an improved skin system, with new presets.

- Does have improved hotkey support.

- Does have regular and 3D screen blankers built in, with power save support.

- Does have automatic screen mode promotion.

- Does have several utility libraries included ("freetype", "z", "png", possibly "avcodec", "avformat", and lots more).

- Does have a scientific calculator utility.

- Does have a proper shutdown function.

jcmarcos : there are also a MUI text editor, openurl support, multi screen support, a bootpic manager, a tool to manage DVD-RW, perhaps a version of Burnit,...

Quote:
We already had some kind of discussion about this point here, and I
still stand by what I said. However:
- that thread didn't receive much feedback, so it seems most users
are not really interested in having an updated printing system...
- the bounty system is still somewhat freezed to say the least. Which
is something that should be improved/fixed ASAP, in my opinion.

Kind regards,
Andrea

the one Feature I am most interested in being a part of Mos 2.0????

- a sustainable economic model that will reward the contributors for their work...

[ Edited by katos1 on 2007/7/31 17:16 ]

@tokai
Quote:

Right - so we need a place where the list of features is easy to find. No one is going to dig down threads on MZ or gather together multiple posts. Even for die hard MorphOS users it's not easy to keep up with the latest feature set as more information becomes available.

If there was a simple, easy to remember URL (it could be a Wiki) where people could easily see the latest version of the rumoured features then that would a great boost to the MorphOS community.

If you have been reading AW.net recently, you will have noticed several people are fed up with the Amiga Inc/Hyperion situation and are saying "my next machine will run MorphOS". There must be other people feeling similarly but not quite decided yet. A page listing the features might be enough to push them over the edge.

"Does have support for ATi 9800 graphics cards."

Hmm is this all R300 series or Just 9800 cards?


@koan

I agree 100% Mos team need marketing help. If marketed properly, both Efika and MOS2.0 could be a nice success. Maybe 1k+ new users plus current base. If information was put into the community in a professional press release, there would be genuine excitement in the Amiga community for these products.



[ Edited by magnetic on 2007/7/31 19:11 ]