AFAIR there were about 3000 Peg2s build (based on collected serial numbers), but a great deal of those went through the Genesi/Freescale developer program into the hands of people outside anything Amiga.

I also don't think 700 users is really that bad when you take into account the quality of those users. Relativly many developers for such a tiny community and aslong as you don't expect Win/OSX/*nix levels a pretty decent amount of SW catering most of the everyday need (either native or by legacy 68k apps).

2000...3000 users sound wrong. MorphOS community has been always about in par with OS4 community. Give or take few hundred users depending on sun spots and community or company situation but probably there never was more than 500-750 users.

Problem in community growth is that it is very difficult to find anyone interested in Amiga. In fact it is not problem of Amiga platform alone but other non-mainstream operating systems are struggling.

700 users isn't bad. I agree that the "quality" of the users is higher (ratio, not actual numbers) than probably any other group of users on any other platform.

But I also think that getting more users (and developers) is important and something that will benefit all of the existing users/developers of MorphOS2.x. More is better, and if enough good software can be written, or ported to MorphOS2.x, it can create a "Snowball" effect that causes the increase in numbers of MorphOS2.x users and developers to accelerate. Not by a large amount, but maybe by a little bit faster.

Then in a while instead of having 700 users with a high number of them also being developers, we have 1,200 users with a lower percentage of them being "High Quality", or developers, but still a higher ratio than any other platforms. More good software brings even more users and a few more developers and maybe we then have 2,000 users, and the ball keeps rolling a little bit faster.

MorphOS is never going to be a competitor with Windows, or MacOSX, or even Linux, but it certainly can be a larger and more active group of users and developers than it is now.

I just want to see it grow, not shrink and die out after a few more years because of lack of interest. It is an excellent operating system that is patterned after another excellent operating system that we all share a common history and interest in.

[ Edited by amigadave 14.02.2012 - 11:04 ]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the number of registered MorphOS users exceeded the amount of Windows users a long time ago. Is this not correct?

If I was you, I would refrain from a carreer as a stand-up comedian.

amigadave,
Quote:

Having thought about it a while longer, 700 registered users of MorphOS2.x after 10+ years of development is bad.

It makes me wonder what is wrong with the MorphOS community, or the (lack of) promotion of MorphOS to get more users and developers from the at least several thousands of remaining Amiga users and few tens of thousands of former Amiga users?

I have tried in my small way to promote MorphOS at my own personal expense and I know that there are a few events in Europe each year where MorphOS users get together, or take their MorphOS computers to these events to show them to other MorphOS users, OS4.x users and current and former AmigaOS3.x users.

Why aren't there 2,000 to 3,500 MorphOS users today? That seems like a very feasible number to expect after the improvements of the last 10+ years and the current excellent state of MorphOS.

Why isn't there more promotion of MorphOS everywhere and why isn't the small amount of MorphOS promotion more effective?

The missing element here is marketing! No one knows what MorphOS is. At least millions of people know what an Amiga is/was. What happened to the John C Dvorak connection? He could help MorphOS sell tons more and should be contacted.

Dvorak the Andy Rooney of the computer world?
He moved on. Just another individual disappointed by the apparent failure of the amiga.

amigadave,
Quote:

Most of those Amiga users are just bystanders who occasionally play with WinUAE or perhaps check Amiga forums. They have many other interests but no intention to get "seriously" to Amiga anymore.

Quote:

Oh yes, the man who predicts technology.. "Listen folks, people don't want to use computermouse"

>> What happened to the John C Dvorak connection? He could
>> help MorphOS sell tons more and should be contacted.

> Oh yes, the man who predicts technology.. "Listen folks,
> people don't want to use computermouse" ;-)

Btw, he not only commented on MorphOS, but also on OS4 :-)

itix,
Quote:

I'll bet many of them would jump at an opportunity to use something besides Windows, or MacOSX, or Linux, if they knew how much better MorphOS is today, than it was a few years ago.

It is attitudes like yours that keep almost all MorphOS users I have come in contact with, from even trying to interest other current, or former Amiga users to try MorphOS.

I believe that not enough MorphOS users and MorphOS Development Team members really try hard enough to get new MorphOS users by explaining just how good MorphOS is. I wish I were better at it, but at least I do what I can and try.

Lately I feel like I am beating my head against a brick wall and wasting my time, money and efforts, because of the few MorphOS users who do their best to alienate potential MorphOS users.

Quote:

MorphOS is not good enough. I know many ex-Amiga users who are my close friends but I never talk about Amiga stuff to them. I know they are not interested and couldnt get their tasks done.

Quote:

Dunno but I have analyzed google searches. Most of search terms are related to Amiga 500, Amiga games and emulators. In addition interest to Amiga is limited to dozen European countries and this Amiga trend in Google is declining. The Amiga is in spiral of death. Accept it or not but MorphOS has survived quite well in this regard.

Quote:

In fact I have explored few methods to promote MorphOS. MorphOS could use more aggressive marketing like posting announcements, press releases, adverting at AmigaWorld.net for free (like certain company does) and so on but in the end it comes to buying hardware. From marketing POV (that is what we are talking here, arent we) PowerPC is wrong hardware. If potential users cant get their hands on it in five minutes they forget about it.

That is, first steps to MorphOS are still to far away.

Quote:

Alienate, how? Telling the truth that Amiga is not making comeback or that MorphOS has its shortcomings?

[ Edited by itix 12.03.2012 - 11:14 ]

I think that the strategy of A-EON/Hyperion is better in the long run than Morphos one.
Of course they do have advantages, they got the name 'AmigaOne', they got the real source code, they have legacy for them. They also build new hardware even if expensive and doing so the press speak about them. The Amiga brand is still strong.
Morhpos is only known to few, even if for now Morphos is superior to OS4 it will not be true forever. I don't say that all this will create a niche where software/hardware developers and dealers will make money for a living but some do.
To succeed you need a strategy, one goal and you need to focus on it until you succeed. Of course, you can hide behind the sentence "it's just a hobby OS", that is the reality but also the easy way of not doing your best to succeed.
So the real question is where does the Morphos Team want to go?, which niche and then all of us should follow that path until we succeed or failed.
I don't understand the secrecy of both camps (the OS4 team is the winner in that area though). Do they fear competition that much? Are they afraid to not deliver?

I for now bought a Powerbook G4 because it's the cheapest way of experiencing an Amiga NG. (Not enough space for a PowerMac)

Kamel
PS I truly understand that most of the Morphos team work on the OS when they do have free time. So how about a monthly bounty to pay a full time dev or two?

[ Edité par kamelito 12.03.2012 - 11:10 ]

Quote:

Btw this is something what I disagree. And I dont think it is important anyway -- please remember Commodore started it from scratch.

Quote:

Willing to pay 5000e/month?

[ Edited by itix 12.03.2012 - 12:17 ]

Quote:

If the brand was strong there would be money to be made of it. There isn't.

kamelito,
Quote:

They have a strategy ??? Someone better tells them .....

The only difference I can really see is that one side tends to poumpos announcements and lifes in clear (self)denial while the other openly admits it's just a hobby.

Noone and I repeat noone has made a "full" income (lets say 2000Euro/months after taxes) while doing only things Amiga for the past 10 years.

Sure some people might get along living in Hotel-Mama eating cheap noodles, but thats not what I would call a real buisness/job.

@hooligan

Quote:

If you believe that the justification for high cost of upcoming Amiga branded models from CUSA (licensing) is a true statement, then I think you might have to say there's -some- money to be made from the licensing standpoint.

I realize your not looking at it from that angle, and that the licensing is based on sales yet to be determined, but still...

#6

@Number6

Well you know.. many have tried the Amiga market in past years, both with hardware and software and we know the outcome of those. Clicking SHOP at Amigas website is quite eyeopening

www.amiga.com .. ( direct link here. )

@hooligan

Heh. Indeed.

But remember in this case we're talking about John Grzymala licensing on behalf of settling the Pentti Kouri estate...not Bill.

#6

@itix

5000€/month well at that price you better deliver a lot quickly.

It's just maybe about 5€/owner of a licence no?
Kamel

itix,
Quote:



Quote:

Almost all current & former Amiga users have a Windows PC, or a Mac computer for the things that a MorphOS computer still lacks the ability to do today. Maybe your friends aren't interested in a MorphOS computer, but unless you have already tried to convince them that a MorphOS computer is fun to use, you don't really know if they would be interested or not. If you have already tried, I applaud your efforts and suggest that there are still thousands of current and former Amiga users who are potential MorphOS users around the world that might enjoy using a MorphOS computer for fun and many of the day to day tasks that most people use computers for today, such as listening to music, chatting on IRC, reading & sending emails, and browsing the Internet, which can all be done on a MorphOS computer. If MorphOS users don't believe in using MorphOS computers, then how can we convince potential users to join us?

Quote:

Quote:

Yes, it is not surprising that the majority of the interest regarding the name "Amiga" in searches on the Internet is toward retro gaming and the legacy hardware. That is a huge part of the history and appeal of using any Amiga inspired, or original Amiga system. The fact that MorphOS can run all of these old retro Amiga games, either directly, or through emulation should be one of the primary features used when promoting MorphOS to all the current and former Amiga users, who are potential MorphOS users of the future. The "spiral of death" can be slowed somewhat and the current numbers of users of all flavors of Amiga inspired systems can begin to increase slowly, instead of continuing to decline, if enough users work at maintaining interest in all flavors of the Amiga experience. Or, we can say that it is already over and there is no point in trying to keep the Amiga communities (all of them including MorphOS) alive. I choose to attempt to keep them alive in what ever way I can help.

Quote:


Quote:

First you say that you have explored a few promotion methods, like more aggressive marketing, posting announcements, press releases, advertising at AW.net, etc., but then you say that it is a waste of time, or effort because MorphOS only runs on PPC right now and that is the wrong hardware and users can't get their hands on it in five minutes.

I can go online any day of the week and any hour of the day and buy PPC hardware to run MorphOS on very easily and at reasonable prices. I would guess that 95%, or more of the worlds population can do the same, so your argument that the hardware that MorphOS runs on today is not readily available in five minutes does not make any sense to me, unless you are writing about only new hardware that you can walk into a retail store and pick up and walk to a cash register with to purchase. Getting brand new hardware to run MorphOS on is not that important to me and probably about 500 to 650 other current MorphOS users. PPC is all MorphOS runs on right now and all it will run on for probably at least another 1 to 3 years, or more. So we either promote MorphOS on PPC today, or we don't promote it at all for how long? My choice is to promote it here and now on what it can run on today. Why not show potential MorphOS users how easy it is to obtain compatible hardware to run it on, that it is free to try, and the good things about MorphOS as it is today, instead of waiting for the next version of MorphOS on some other platform? Are you really suggesting that promotion of MorphOS is just a waste of time until it is on x86, or ARM and has more features to compete with Windows, MacOSX, or Linux? By that time the size of the MorphOS community could be 1/3 less than it is today, depending on how long it takes the port from PPC to x86, or ARM and how much software compatibility we lose in the process. I'll promote what we have now and worry about what is coming next when the Dev. Team announces something new is going to happen.

Quote:

Quote:

Everyone knows that it is current and former Amiga users who are the most likely candidates for potential new MorphOS users. It is those people that some of the MorphOS users are alienating with their negative behavior. It has nothing to do with telling any truths, or about the Amiga never making a comeback. Pointing out the fact that MorphOS has some shortcomings is not a problem, but promoting its good points and what it can do, instead of what it cannot do, is much more productive in raising the number of MorphOS users and developers. More users and developers means more potential for success and maintaining a niche community that will survive, instead of decline and die.

As users of MorphOS we can decide to do nothing and hope that things will get better, or we can decide to do something that we think will make MorphOS grow. Or we can just use it and enjoy it and not worry about it surviving, or coming to an end some day.

Most days I want to do something to try to help MorphOS grow. Recently I have been wondering why I even care about any of this anymore. Very few others seem to care, or believe that any difference can be made to increase the number of users, besides what is already being done (which in my eyes seems to be very little at all in the way of promoting MorphOS to potential new users).

Ahem, back on topic - the graph has been updated again.

koszer,
Quote:

Sorry for going so far off topic koszer.

Is there a document available for download or viewing online that provides the actual numbers for each dot on the graph?

My curiosity would like to see the exact numbers that the graph is based on.

I agree with @Dave. From a marketing point of view NOT promoting a product or a company is the sure way into oblivion.