Just move on. If you think you'll be happy with 68k, go for it.

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I just don't like forum trolls, that's all.

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You wrote about Neverball.
Here's a video of it running on MorphOS with no issues whasoever.

You wrote about TORCS - you got a video of the game running smoothly.

You wrote about Speed Dreams - you got a video of the game running well (and the prefs to check for yourself). Then you said it's not "fast enough" but failed to elaborate how many FPS is "fast enough".

You wrote about Frogatto and Friends not working at all and got a confirmation, as it doesn't seem to work with the latest TinyGL (probably needs recompilation).

You wrote about Shogo and Wipeout not working - you got a video of them working. And yes, I don't believe Wipeout2097 runs faster in FullHD on a classic Amiga with PPC accelerator than on my Power Mac G5 and I would call anyone stating that a pathetic liar.

Then you were stuck with Hurrican and an XBox controller. Maybe I should get one and record a video too?

Then you wrote about "many even 2D games running slow" but failed to name them even once. Sad, as I would gladly test them out for you.

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We will all have fun with your mistakes, for sure.

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I'm sure there are many MorphOS users in your country, and some of them surely visit MorphZone. Post a link here and your chances to sell the hardware grow.
Oh, by the way - doesn't Allegro.hu allow sending stuff to Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland too?

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OK, noted. Many years ago (but for a short time, not for years). But you remember with great detail how fast Wipeout2097 ran on it.

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This is so untrue. Amiga 1000 introductory price was 1285 US dollars. Apple Macintosh introductory price was 2500 US dollars. Amiga outclassed it for a fraction of its price. That's why Apple was really afraid of Amiga.

Or maybe we should compare more Mac prices to Amiga models?

1987:
Amiga 500 - 699 USD
Macintosh SE - 2900 USD

Amiga 2000 - 1495 USD
Macintosh II - 5500 USD

1990:
Amiga 3000 - 3299 USD
Macintosh IIfx - 9900 USD

1992:
Amiga 1200 - 599 USD
Macintosh Performa 400 - 1900 USD

Amiga 4000 - 2399 USD
Macintosh Quadra 950 - 5300 USD

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Yet hopelessly outdated 7 years later and bankrupt 9 years later.

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Which ones? The ones you tried? Shogo, Wipeout? Developed for AmigaOS? LMAO.

> unfortunately it's not so easy for me to answer due to my lack of English skills.

That's unfortunate as I asked some questions the answers to which I really would have liked to read.

>> Regarding CPU performance, the X5000 is faster than an equally
>> clocked G5 Mac only in pure integer performance (about 25%, so the
>> 2.2 GHz X5000 roughly equals the 2.7 GHz G5 Mac), but loses in
>> floating point performance and memory bandwidth (and SIMD, obviously).

> The x5000 was tested and had very good speed results compared to the G5

That's not the conclusion I arrived at when conducting benchmark tests between my 2.3 GHz PowerMac G5 and the 2.0 GHz X5000/20 in 2016:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=593 (#594)
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=624 (#625)

> it was clearly stated on another forum that wazp3d won't
> work until I delete the Warp3d library and that's true

As told in the installation instructions, rename it for backup purpose, not delete. And where were you told that Wipeout 2097 and Shogo don't work on a G5 Mac again?

> Shogo […] starts but does not run smoothly […] graphic glitches occur
> during gameplay […] I think I've tried every setting in wazp3d. prefs […]
> wipeout2097 doesn't work properly […] the image is broken

Sound like software misconfiguration to me, i.e. nothing koszer couldn't help you with.

> you don't have to play around with it to find the right settings

Officially, MorphOS simply doesn't support running Warp3D software on Radeon R3xx or newer. Wazp3D is not a system component but 3rd-party software you chose to install. You even have to replace a system component in the process. Having to play around with it to make it work is comparable to, for instance, making software run on Windows that is not supposed to run on it as is.
Putting a Radeon R2xx-based card in a PowerMac G4 (or simply using a Mac mini G4) would probably have been the more straightforward way for you, as it seems.

> my Amiga with its 240Mhz processor ran games faster than MorphOS with the G5 2Ghz.

No chance this is even remotely true, unless something is completely borked on your G5.

> Unfortunately, almost everything slow on the MOS system
> Shogo

How does it compare to koszer's video?

> Speed ​​Dreams

How does it compare to koszer's video?

> and even many 2ds games!

Name them and I'm sure koszer will test them on his setup and record a video.

> when one application freezes, the entire system freezes with it.

That's not the rule. There are cases when a misbehaving application manages to freeze the entire OS, especially when testing 3rd-party m68k software not designed for MorphOS, but usually only the application itself freezes.

> There is no way to close the frozen application.

Indeed, the same as with AmigaOS and any other OS lacking memory protection and resource tracking. You may try to iKill it (to make it disappear at least) and/or minimize its task priority, but that's it.

> I don't get any error message that would give me any idea
> of ​​what is causing the freeze.

MorphOS has a built-in debugger that may be used to retrieve a debug log after reboot.

> I don't know if MorpOS will have problem with a Samsung Evo 850 SSD?

Generally, SSD support is a question of compatibility with the Mac's SATA controller, not a question of compatibility with MorphOS. You will be pleased to read other users' positive experience with that particular SSD:

https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13510&forum=53&start=13 (#14)
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=12297&forum=11&start=7 (#8, #16)
https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13921&forum=11&start=44 (#45)

> There are serious editors for AmigaOS or at least that's
> what was considered such at the time, e.g. FinalWriter

Final Writer is a word processor, not a text editor. These are different types of application for different purposes.

> In 2024-25, an editor that supports the formats you listed
> will not be considered an extra in a system

Nobody claimed any text editor to be an extra. It was just clarified that it's there in MorphOS, which is a fact you didn't know (and didn't ask about) and even still disputed *after* having been told about it. Btw, does OS4 come with a text editor capable of UTF-8?

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Why would someone be a troll just for voicing their opinion?
I can't promise, but if I have time today, I'll make a few videos about how MorphOS works for me, and I haven't messed with the system. All I did was install the SDL package and TinyGL
As far as I know, there is no other option on MorphOS that I should install.
yes, even Wazp3d
unfortunately no one here mentioned that I have to delete the Warp3d library for it to work ! Fortunately, a user wrote about it on another forum, but I won't go into it much because neither Shogo nor Wipeout simply want to work flawlessly.

But I'll make a video about this too, and I'll even set the camera to capture the entire monitor and you'll see how the system freezes so much that only turning it off and on helps.
This was the case with my pegasos2 machine, and I bought it from someone who knew how to install it.
I don't understand why many people here claim that MorpOS is a stable system?

A stable system is one that does not freeze due to a faulty application
The application itself freezes but the system remains functional and can close the frozen application like on MacOS

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Who said I want to deal with 68k?

Maybe it wasn't clear that it wasn't the processor type but the system that was causing the problem.

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This was left out

The Amiga's bankruptcy was caused by Commodore's bad business policy

They produced a very good and powerful machine at the time, which was much better in terms of sound and graphics than competing machines

And Commodore didn't develop the Amiga for years and competing companies took advantage of this

The machines can be sent abroad, but it's not worth it because the shipping fee wouldn't be cheap due to the weight of the machine, and if you search on Ebay, you'll find several Macs for sale within the country, and it's clear that no one would buy my machine because of the expensive shipping fee.

The only problem with the Amiga and MAC prices you listed is that sooner or later the Amiga was not enough for anyone in its basic configuration and over time it needed RAM and processor upgrades and that cost a fortune.
When the Amiga CD32 was released, various accessories such as FMW modules etc. were also released for it, and the Amiga was already a very expensive machine.
I'm not saying Wipeout would run faster on a PPC Amiga, but I remember it running perfectly fine on my Amiga.
The Voodoo card, which worked through the Mediator card, was more than enough for him.

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I'm not disputing that the system includes a text editor
I just said that the default editor that opens the txt file didn't allow editing

I don't know what AmigaOS4x contains because I haven't had the chance to use such a system yet.
But I'm sure there is an editor for AmigaOS that supports UTF-8 format, it's a different question who uses it.
If I need to edit anything, even an image, I use MacOS where there are much more advanced and stable programs available.
In the past, serious editors that are still used by many today, such as LightWave, Blender, Cynema4d, were released for AmigaOS
these programs were so successful that they were ported to Windows
although they didn't work as well there as they did on Amiga
Ezt olyan emberek mondták, akik 3D modellezéssel foglalkoznak.
Én pont ezeket a programokat próbáltam ki régebben Amigán.

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Correction, the file viewer that opened the file allowed you to view that file.

The "default editor" which would have opened if you had choosen "edit" would have been more then capable of editing that file.

[ Edited by Kronos 01.05.2025 - 08:52 ]

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There's a readme file in the Wazp3D archive. It says:

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No need to edit the readme file, just read it. You can rename old libs, or delete them, just don't leave them there untouched.

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And the upgrades for Macintosh computers were dirt cheap, right? :D

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Ah, so it's not you who wrote this one?

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Are you just one person?

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Blender? Either you mean AmigaOS 4.x version of Blender or you confuse something again.
As for LightWave - maybe you'd like me to record a video how LW works on MorphOS? I'm sure it runs faster than on your 240 MHz Amiga.

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Yes, that's my fault
but I said I'm not that familiar with MorphOS
I've been using MacOS for years and that's what I'm used to

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read the description of wazp3d but I didn't see any part where it mentioned that the possible warp3d library should be deleted.It's true that I don't speak English, but as I've seen on other English forums, I'm not the only one who couldn't install it the first time.

Mac machines, for example, the Quadra, if I remember correctly, had a 40 processor as standard, while an Amiga 1200 had a 20 processor, so the Amiga had to be developed from scratch to be as fast as the Mac, so I think the Amiga can be considered a more expensive machine.

I understood most of the games to run faster
I remember Wipeout running at a decent speed but I don't know how much faster it was on the G5

I don't know how it runs on LW OS4 and MOS systems because I haven't had the chance to try it.

but let's be clear about one thing
LW and almost all the programs you use on the "great" MorphOS system now are all thanks to the Amiga developers
A machine or system is kept alive by the programs written on it!
No matter how good a system is, it doesn't have enough software support.
Many of you here criticize the Amiga and AmigaOS, and without the Amiga there would be no MorphOS.
The Amiga is "crap" but it's still good to use Amiga software, right?
I'm going to get a machine that can run AmigaOS4 and gain my own experience on which one works better MorphOS or AmigaOS
It's also more likable in terms of videos made about OS4, and I can't imagine it being as bad as some users here claim.
This is starting to be like when people argue about politics
everyone sticks to their own party and even if it doesn't work properly, they still don't see it or don't want to see it :)
I can say that when I was using os3.9 on my PowerAmiga I didn't have many problems with it.
I didn't have to restart every few minutes because the system would freeze
and the games ran at a pleasant speed
and the point is that there were a lot of applications on it
something that was specifically Amiga development and not porting
There's nothing wrong with using Amiga programs on MorphOS, just remember that MorphOS is also thanks to Amiga
and we shouldn't constantly criticize Amiga and AmigaOS
But I guess you won't agree with that either, and again I'm talking nonsense...

@Krisz:

Fun fact, MorphOS was actually created before AmigaOS 4. The 90's were a bad time for the Amiga and Phase 5 folks stepped in the give the Amiga a next step.

So basically because of perhaps pride, they created an entirely new OS when one already existed that was already a great solution. If they would have worked together then, there would only have been one camp not two with AmigaOS technically being MorphOS or something along those lines.

The biggest issue in Amiga is software, as a hobby I collect business and productivity software for Amiga. For 68k, there is almost nothing that is truly useable for modern applications. For PPC/4.1 there is a bit more to choose from, but it is basically a half way point.

People are free to use whatever they want (as I use Amiga as a hobby), but MorphOS is the most mature and stable solution with the best productivity applications in all of Amigaland.

The group of people that support and develop MorphOS have been doing it for years and are a great bunch to interact with they are willing to keep improving the products. I have purchased 7 licenses and have made donations to some of the developers to keep them motivated. Nothing exists at this level in all the Amiga flavors.

I'm not bashing any other system or folks, but this is the reality of the universe for Amiga and Amiga like systems in 2025...

>>> In 2024-25, an editor that supports the formats you listed
>>> will not be considered an extra in a system

>> Nobody claimed any text editor to be an extra. It was just clarified that
>> it's there in MorphOS, which is a fact you didn't know (and didn't ask
>> about) and even still disputed *after* having been told about it.

> I'm not disputing that the system includes a text editor

In comments #203 and #204 you were told how to edit text files in MorphOS, yet in comment #211 half a day later you wrote that "a basic system should have a simple text editor that not only reads documents but also allows you to write in them", which as you knew by then was the case with MorphOS.

>> does OS4 come with a text editor capable of UTF-8?

> I don't know what AmigaOS4x contains […]. But I'm sure
> there is an editor for AmigaOS that supports UTF-8 format

If it's not part of the system installation, it'd be considered an extra, wouldn't it?

> editors […] such as […] Blender […] released for AmigaOS
> […] were so successful that they were ported to Windows

Erm, no, surely not Blender.

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AmigaOS has existed since 1985, the only thing is that after 3.9 there was a break and then os4x was released, but it was still a further development of amigaOS.
Amiga OS still supports older Amiga programs better than MorphOS
so I don't see how it would be nearly equal to MorphOS
From the videos it's a completely different system
I've watched many videos on Youtube about OS4 and the games that run on it
It's really a shame to argue about this AmigaOS vs MorphOS thing because everyone has different preferences and different
things work out for them.
Unfortunately, I'm currently experiencing a lot of system freezes and applications are not working properly
but as I wrote earlier I'm going to try reinstalling morpos on an ssd drive
I hope the situation will improve.

> Wazp3d […] unfortunately no one here mentioned that
> I have to delete the Warp3d library for it to work !
> Fortunately, a user wrote about it on another forum

You were told here to install Wazp3D, which of course includes reading the installation instructions that come with it, where it is told in no uncertain terms to rename the original library (not delete) and then copy the Wazp3D libraries as Warp3D libraries into place. Consultation of any other forum should really not have been required for this.

> the system freezes so much that only turning it off and on helps.
> This was the case with my pegasos2 machine

You mean the one that worked so nicely compared to your G5 Mac?

> I don't understand why many people here claim that MorpOS is a stable system?

I guess they do so because it is stable for them. And they in turn don't understand why your system is so unstable.

> A stable system is one that does not freeze due to a faulty application

As per this strict definition, no Amiga-like system can be a stable system because of lack of memory protection.

> The application itself freezes but the system remains functional
> and can close the frozen application like on MacOS

Yes, macOS has full memory protection and resource tracking.

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They didn't have to ask because when I wrote that I couldn't edit the txt file, I immediately got an answer telling me where to find it and what the name of the editor was that would allow me to write it.
the problem is that I immediately got a teasing reply
comment that it's interesting that I've been using AmigaOS and I still don't know the editor
I wrote at the beginning that I used Amiga a long time ago
I've forgotten a lot of things since then
and I'm not that familiar with Morphos yet

Sometimes I miss some things I get in response because it's not that easy with Google Translate.
Sometimes I translate really stupid things, completely different from what I actually wanted to write.

Even if it's not Blender, it's true for LW and C4D the port

but it's really pointless to argue about such things
the point is that MorphOS is currently very unstable for me
and I didn't experience this with AmigaOS at the time


It could also be that the HDD is really faulty because something interesting happened a few days ago.
I downloaded a game and when I unzipped it it didn't work because something was missing.
but when I start it from ram it started
then I unzipped it to another folder and it worked from there too
The HDD may contain bad sectors ?

> I'm not saying Wipeout would run faster on a PPC Amiga

But you did in comment #239. I'm not sure such confusion can be solely attributed to language barrier.

> but I remember it running perfectly fine on my Amiga.

…as people are remembering the wonderful and realistic graphics of their childhood computer games and then they're surprisingly hurting their eyes if re-played decades later. Thing is what's saved in your brain's memory is not the actual resolution or frame rate of the game but just how you perceived it at that particular point of time, i.e. a feeling. While viewing standards go up in time with the technical development, your feeling about that past perception ("frame rate was fluid") will stay the same in a way that it gets mixed up with what you'd perceive as a fluid frame rate *today*. Unfortunately, there's nothing that can be done about this flawed way our brain deals with memory.
A real, non-flawed comparison would involve actual numbers like resolution and FPS.

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Yes, there is truth in what you wrote :)
I remember comparing the way wipeout worked on my Amiga to the PSX back then.
And I clearly saw that the Amiga version had better graphics and was faster.
Even a PSX fan friend of mine saw this

Another thing that struck me was that when the same game was played on the PC and Amiga, the Amiga version always had better graphics. I used to argue a lot with my PC friends about whether the same game looked better on the Amiga.
Then we put the Amiga and the PC side by side and tested a few games that were available for both platforms.
By the way, if there is someone here who is lucky enough to have an Amiga 1200 and a PPC accelerator card, you can do this comparison yourself.
I remember how much better Doom and Heretic looked on the Amiga
and I was using the built-in AGA graphics chip back then
But despite this, what you wrote is true
everything is different with a child's head and at that time we didn't even have such a basis for comparison because at that time those games were still considered top graphics
I remember when I saw a game called GuySpy I couldn't believe my eyes
I thought I was watching a cartoon!
Good old days :)

> read the description of wazp3d but I didn't see any part where it
> mentioned that the possible warp3d library should be deleted.

Yes, that's because it doesn't say so, as the recommended way is renaming the original library, which it does mention.

> I understood most of the games to run faster

I'd say *all* games that do run on MorphOS run faster.

> almost all the programs you use on the "great" MorphOS
> system now are all thanks to the Amiga developers

Almost all programs used by the average MorphOS user are MorphOS-native: some ported, some reimplemented, some written completely from scratch. The marginal rest are old Amiga programs that work on MorphOS thanks to the MorphOS developers and 3rd-party developers like the Wazp3D author.

> No matter how good a system is, it doesn't have enough software support.

Huh?

> Many of you here criticize the Amiga and AmigaOS

That's not true. You just made this up.

> The Amiga is "crap"

In fact, you are the very first one in this thread to write such, but blame "many" others for allegedly doing so.

> but it's still good to use Amiga software, right?

Huh? Did you forget that it was you who asked how to run certain Amiga software on MorphOS? You got positive answers about this but somehow don't seem to be delighted in the slightest. That's highly irritating.

> even if it doesn't work properly, they still don't see it
> or don't want to see it :)

It's the other way round here actually. You get video proof of things working well but exhibit reluctance accepting that it works for others just because it doesn't for you for reasons yet to be determined. Highly irritating.

> I didn't have to restart every few minutes because the system would freeze
> and the games ran at a pleasant speed
> and the point is that there were a lot of applications on it

That's exactly the experience of the average MorphOS user using MorphOS, also thanks to the compatibility with old Amiga programs.

> something that was specifically Amiga development and not porting

More MorphOS-specific software would be better of course, but considering the niche, ports of good crossplatform software are better than nothing I guess.

> There's nothing wrong with using Amiga programs on MorphOS

Indeed, and really nobody in this thread claimed anything to the contrary. You were even explained how to use certain Amiga programs on MorphOS. Isn't that nice?

> we shouldn't constantly criticize Amiga and AmigaOS

Yes, that's why we don't do it.

> because of perhaps pride, they created an entirely new OS
> when one already existed that was already a great solution.

It wasn't so much about pride than it was about control.

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Getting Doom and Heretic to look even worse than AGA on a PC (even with 1995 parts) is quite a feat, that I would love to see repeated.

Some heavily rose tinted glasses might be another explanation.

> after 3.9 there was a break and then os4x was released

There was already a long break before with stagnation between OS3.1 (1994) and OS3.5 (1999), that's when several 3rd party developments attempted to overcome the stagnation, among those AROS starting in 1995 and MorphOS starting in 1998. Expecting those developments to be abandoned when OS3.5 was released wasn't realistic considering the nature of the release of OS3.5 (and OS3.9 a year later).
Unfortunately, several negotiations during 2001 to have MorphOS released as AmigaOS 4 failed.