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Liberals are fascists that lie to you.
Conservatives are fascists that are at least honest to you that they want to fuck you over.
Progressives are fascists who got bullied at school. Close relation of the liberal.

"I have never really understood exactly what a ‘liberal’ is, since I have heard ‘liberals’ express every conceivable opinion on every conceivable subject. As far as I can tell, you have the extreme right, who are fascist racist capitalist dogs like Ronald Reagan, who come right out and let you know where they’re coming from. And on the opposite end, you have the left, who are supposed to be committed to justice, equality, and human rights. And somewhere between those two points is the liberal.
As far as I’m concerned, ‘liberal’ is the most meaningless word in the dictionary. History has shown me that as long as some white middle-class people can live high on the hog, take vacations to Europe, send their children to private schools, and reap the benefits of their white skin privilege, then they are ‘liberal’. But when times get hard and money gets tight, they pull off that liberal mask and you think you’re talking to Adolf Hitler. They feel sorry for the so-called underprivileged just as long as they can maintain their own privileges." - Assata Shakur

[ Edited by Intuition 26.06.2016 - 18:41 ]

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The "special relationship" goes down the pan when the United Kingdom falls apart.

On the other hand your rich overlords will have a field day raping and pillaging what's left of England.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-desperately-hoping-this-theory-about-david-cameron-and-brexit-is-true--bJhqBql0VZ

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This article explains the economic side of it: http://fortune.com/2016/06/24/brexit-us-economy/

And here is a brief list of general reasons why it might matter to you:
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/24/politics/brexit-what-this-means-us/

In short: If you had planned to travel to the UK in the near future, the good news is that you might save a few pounds. The bad news is that if the dollar appreciates notably (and stays that way), American export revenues will shrink lowering demand on the labor market (read: job losses...).

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The sad thing about the American export revenues is that American workers only produce a tiny fraction of what they did 50 or 100 years ago, as most American companies have moved production out of America to other countries with cheaper labor forces. We export some raw materials, some knowledge, and a failing concept of the capitalist economy that no longer works for the average person, and only the rich get richer, while the middle class grows poorer, and the government (like most throughout the world), is full of corruption and laws that protect the rich and prevent any meaningful change. No money is spent on education, because the rich can't fool a more educated general population, so only the rich can afford a better education. The rich can afford better health care, while the average person pay ridiculous amounts of money on health insurance, and still must fight to get mediocre health care services, which they must wait weeks or months to receive. The American dream has turned into a nightmare, and our only choices for political candidates are all very bad, but it doesn't matter much who gets to be president, as the congress is controlled by special interest lobbyists, who all work for big corporations. Laws are so complex, few can understand them, and most politicians used to be lawyers, or are influenced by the lawyers working for large corporations, to keep laws complex, and the general population from understanding what is going on.

Unfortunately for the rest of the world, the actions of the American government and our large corporations affects many/most people all over the world. I apologize for the stupidity of most American people, and the corrupt actions of our greedy corporations, and corrupt government officials.

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American morons are no more idiotic than morons from other countries to be fair. It's just the decisions your particular morons make can negatively affect a hell of a lot more people due to the economic and military power your leaders have at their disposal.

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So called conservatives are also the authors of a multitude of lies.
The most prominant are those where they seek to demonize specific groups of people.
Those lies serve as a great foil for the destraction of the masses.
You, more than many of us, ought to be aware of that Nick.
You're family belongs to one of those groups currently facing such actions.

And the problem is not an issue of left or right. ALL politicians lie.

What scares me most about Trump is his profound misunderstanding of economics.
One would think a sucessful businessman would have a better grasp of that topic.
But his four bankruptcies have allowed him to accumulate funds while decieving his creditors and his investors into believing their investments were sound.
His ideas, if enacted, would lead to massive inflation and retalitory tariffs being placed on US exports.
His short sightedness and coarse confrontational nature would damage our relations with enemies and allies alike and could lead us to further military adventurism.
The problems the US faces are related more to the greed of our wealthy than the are to illegal imigrants or threats from the outside.

And the fact the Obama deregulated banking after the Dodd/Frank act and is in favor of the TPP just shows the both sides are implicit in our decline.

Frankly I would have prefered Sanders, if an outsider was called for.
Because Trump is a media circus clown and I don't trust the Clintons.

That being said, our economy during Bill Clinton's administration was relatively stable.
The election of Donald Trump would a complete disaster.

I would not trust Donald Trump with my investments, why would I trust him with the future of my country?

BTW - This is one area that I wholly agree with Andre on. What the hell happened to US productivity and how did we allow ourselves to be so mislead by the enternally greedy?

[ Edited by Jim 26.06.2016 - 16:10 ]

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I called them neo-progressives because actual progressives are the likes of Roosevelt, but most people call them progressives, including themselves. Dawkins coined the phrase "regressive left". They've spent the last 10 years taking over the left, shrieking that anyone who opposes them is a racist or a sexist or a homophobe -- something incredibly effective at first. They think that anything that they don't like is a plot by conservatives, the alt-right, white people, and the patriarchy and that their feelings are more important than democracy; and despite defeat after defeat in elections they just haven't got the message that everyone thinks they're a bunch of horrible scumbags and will sink the boat rather than let them sail it.

Long story short, progressives are the reason Labour has done horribly over the last two elections, they are the reason people vote Trump Farage Le Pen Gert Wilders and Golden Dawn, they are the reason for Brexit, they are the reason actual socialists like Corbyn are constantly backstabbed, and their eventual dilution of the word "racist" by their misuse is why people now can be stupid racists with impunity.

And just look at what they did to rationalwiki. Just look at it.

[ Edited by KennyR 26.06.2016 - 21:32 ]

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Yep, they are all lying bastards. It's to our own eternal shame that we continue to let them get away with it.

But what's the alternative? Revolution?

The only way the dumbed down morons in most western countries would revolt is if if you took away their live sports and reality TV.

Let them eat Soylent. They deserve it.

It's just occurred to me. No more TTIP if we leave the EU. Now admittedly the Tory bastards could give us an even worse deal with the Yanks but if we get a snap general election because the Scots leave the UK we could have a Corbyn govt sooner than we hoped out of this and he won't implement anything like TPIP at all.

Blair in the Hague would be the icing on the cake.

[ Edited by Intuition 27.06.2016 - 10:38 ]

Glad to see that more than a few of you don't want to be lumped in any of the current classifications.
I can understand the appeal of Trump to some of you, but is voting in a very wealthy business man with a history of dishonest business practices really voting in an outsider?
Want to bet he pays less taxes than you do?
I am in a total quandary. If I don't vote, as many won't, and I get Trump for President I have failed to assert my opinion. And the alternative, while unpalatable, is the only real recourse I have.

But something needs to be done. Politics no longer serves the interests of the people, and if I become more jaded I will start questioning if it ever did.
One thing I am certain of, the security and prosperity of the people in my country and in most of Europe was better when I was younger than it is now.
I am not sure how we came to this, but our political leaders, the leaders of commerce, and at least some of the wealthy played a role in it.
To the detriment of the majority of us all worldwide.

Revolution? Too messy. How about we all pay more attention and stop buying into the lies we have been fed in the past?
These people aren't smarter than us, they are just focused and persistant.

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http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_576e558ce4b08d2c563937ff?edition=uk

First they came for the Jews.........

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Yes, that is true, but the general impression I have (and apparently many others from outside the USA), is that a larger percentage of USA residents are morons, lazy consumers who don't produce much of anything anymore, and a larger contributing factor to many of the problems the world faces these days, than the average person from most other countries. Our leaders make bad decisions, which have a larger impact on global economies, so they deserve a larger portion of the blame when things go wrong, and since the populace here hasn't done anything to elect better leaders, we are complicit in those bad decisions.

It is time for the people of the world to stand up, come together and make the future better, for the benefit & equality of all, as it should be. With instant global communication, a peaceful movement toward "One World" with equality for all should be started. The idea that people are more important than governments and corporations could take hold and move forward, to influence real change to eventually take place. It won't be easy or quick, and the resistance against such a movement will be unbelievable, from those currently in power, but with enough time and with the right ideas that benefit everyone equally, it could become our reality. It must happen eventually, or our children and their children are all destined to some kind of apocalyptic future, probably worse than seen in so many movies about the future (but without the zombies). I don't consider myself a communist, socialist, republican, democrat, or member of any extremist religious faction, but I do believe that one day (if we don't destroy ourselves before then), the entire planet could be united with common human rights and basic human necessities for all (food, shelter, freedom), plus an equal opportunity for education, jobs, and the pursuit of happiness in our lives, without the greedy competition to obtain as much as you can at the expense of others. Its a dream that most do not believe will be possible for hundreds of years, if ever. They are probably right, it will never happen, if we never start to move in that direction. I believe we can have "One World", while still retaining the history and customs (for the most part), that makes each nation's people unique and special. I believe that all humans have the capacity to be good and honest, but we must build this dream future together, because if we don't, the path we are currently following will surely destroy our tiny, special planet, and kill the entire human race.

Pie in the sky, unrealistic, childish wishful thinking, impossible? Maybe, but I believe in a different kind of future, and though it will be extremely difficult to realize, and may take many generations to accomplish such a future, I believe humanity can accomplish anything, if they believe in it, and want it badly enough.

Edit: Clean water & clean environment, a healthy diet, equal opportunities for a good education, equal opportunities for good jobs, equal pay for equal work, regardless of gender, race, religious preference, or political opinions, freedom of speech and to express opinions that might conflict with current popular ideals, laws, or policies, freedom to criticize government business, financial, or religious leaders, and suggest alternatives ideas, opinions, or courses of action, and share those ideas and opinions with everyone, without any interference, or censorship by the government, commercial entities, or religious leaders, equal health care for everyone, not influenced by the ability, or inability to pay, or a person's position in society, business, religious rank, or government office, or the ability to pay higher sums of money to obtain better or faster health care. All these changes are possible right now (over a period of time for adjustment to make the changes), and I believe them to be basic human rights for happiness and prosperity. It doesn't mean that people who work harder, or produce more good for the world community would not be compensated with the same rewards as a person who is a paralyzed from the neck down, and who cannot contribute to the same degree as the highest and most talented & productive contributors in the global community, but all people would receive the same basic human rights and services. Those wishing to excel above and beyond the average person, would still have the opportunity to be rewarded for their extra work and contributions to society, so there would still be incentive to become the best person you are capable of being, and would still be incentives to be innovative, and creative, and strive for excellence. People who don't wish to do anything, and only want to depend on the kindness of this dream like society, would receive only the most basic necessities for life, and all the opportunities to better themselves, so they could at any time in the future, raise themselves up and become more productive in contributing to society and themselves.

[ Edited by amigadave 28.06.2016 - 02:10 ]

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http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/27/opinion/this-is-just-the-start-of-the-brexits-economic-disaster.html?_r=1&referer=

"The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.

Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels."

Granted it's from the Express but sounds like the Fourth Reich to me. ;)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

@Iggy

Imagine if the people of the Soviet Union had never heard of communism. The ideology that dominates our lives has, for most of us, no name. Mention it in conversation and you’ll be rewarded with a shrug. Even if your listeners have heard the term before, they will struggle to define it.

Neoliberalism: do you know what it is?

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot

Excellent piece, can't believe it's in The Grauniad of all papers.

@Intuition

An "United States of Europe" has been the goal for atleast 25 years now and I don't see a problem with that aslong as it's based on democratic and sensible rules.

Even the bigger countries struggle keeping up an army that could do any meanigfull operation without relying on allies, so in a combined army makes sense (smaller states allready started merging units with eachother or bigger states).

Having diffent tax codes with open borders is the reason why we have a race to the bottom with "profit centers" of big companies located in Ireland, Luxenburg or else).

There is very little point for €-members to have national central bank.

None of this is really new or a sign of "neoliberlism" (other will happily cite the same to proove that the EU is going socialist....), so you should really asked yourself why it hasn't been in the public eye.

The other option is turning back to small and smaller countries competing against eachother on the back of therit citizen while having 0 global influence.

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One gets the impression that they used communism to fuel the revolution and then discarded it.
Cuba adheres to the concept far better.
The Soviet version was a weird mix of socialism, fascism, with limitations on personal rights.

And yes, I have constantly heard the term neoliberalism bandied about.
Personally I think describing todays consetvative movement as neo conservative is far more accurate.

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Winston Churchill famously said in 1946: "We must build a kind of United States of Europe."

But, ssssh ... Do not tell the Brits

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Funny you should mention my 2nd, 3rd, or 4th degree cousin, Winston Churchill, I have spent a large part of the past two days researching the exact family connection I share with him (and also Walt Disney). I am waiting for more information from my Father, whose parents both died (at different times), when he was a young boy. Never having met them, and because my Father never spoke about them to me, or any of my brothers or sisters, has led to a huge hole in my family history that I am trying to fill in, now that I am older, and want to pass this information on to my two Sons, and specially my Grandson, who is coming to visit for a week or two next month. I would also like to learn more about the family history on my Mother's side, as her Grandmother was a full blooded Blackfoot Indian, but that research will no doubt be much more difficult than the connection to Winston Churchill & Walt Disney.

Sorry for the off topic tangent.

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Having to stick "neo-" on the front of things is annoying and Monty Python-esque ("You don't vote for kings!"), but unfortunately how it is: agenda-driven freeloaders will tend to be drawn to name-squat on greater things that came before so you have to call them something else. But as Amiga users we know that only too well, right? ;)

Neo-conservatives are empire-building maniacs who want to be Genghis Khan. Neo-liberals are sociopathic greedmongers who'd sell your grandmother for some shares. Neo-progressives are democracy-hating, racial-profiling, hypocritical hipsters. They all hold one thing in common though: they're assholes who despise us. We vote the people they most despise instead, hoping it will hurt them, but those people are just as bad.

Im buying more stuff from Amigakit than I have in years. And Yes I voted out

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No argument from me..

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I'm no Stalin cheerleader but the Soviet Union went down the pan after his death.

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The Butcher of Bengal.

I think I despise that man even more than Thatcher.