Grunch and MorphOS-Storage database ?
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    polluks
    Posts: 458 from 2007/10/23
    From: Gelsenkirchen,...
    At least a Grunch field should be easy...
    Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W · iMac G5 12,1
    Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.12
  • »02.11.19 - 01:22
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 313 from 2012/4/28
    I think that a option is to have a section with the different databases to download, because I have seen that is relatively easy make your own Grunch database, and some of these are only for the programs of one programmer, the good idea to this is for example that I'll can make Morgue database with my programs and games, the bad is that will be many databases.
    Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
    WinUAE + original OS 3.5&3.9
    Sam440ep 800 MHZ + OS 4.1 F.E.
    Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 F.E.
    MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.12
    PowerBook G4 1.65 + MorphOS 3.12
  • »03.11.19 - 10:40
    Profile Visit Website
  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 928 from 2004/9/23
    There is no limitation.

    Everyone can make a database and create new entries or adapt the files included into a new database.

    All the user needs to do is adding the initial database to the database/user folder and it will automatically update and expand as it is handled and updated like a software package itself.

    There are no servers. Grunch just mimics the behavior of a user. Find a file with a higher version on given servers, download, extract and install it. All those steps are in the .db files and the manual does explain every command.

    Just ensure the files are properly tested, as they can - wanted or not - delete the entire harddrive or do what ever. The quality of the .db files also reflects the user experience. Do not overwrite already installed icons. Do not fail when removing files/folders that don´t exist. De-install without forgetting any data in ENVARC: or elsewhere.

    This is nothing you should hack together in rapid fashion. It needs to be properly tested by the maintainer, which takes time.

    For a developer this is easy. They just create an drawer using the application name and having a matching icon and the application with the same name inside. Then you can basically use a single line for install and deinstall. Just name, description needs to be set.

    Once created the developer does not need to touch the entry anymore. Whenever he uploads a new archive of his software, every user will get it. Thats why developer should create their application archive from within the makefile, too. That way the archive will automatically created and will never fail.

    If there is a sloppy archive, with random names (e.g. version number in drawer, archive or application name) on each update or a different file structure or composed by hand with forgotten files, it gets hard. Same for non standard version strings.
  • »06.11.19 - 11:23
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 537 from 2011/11/30
    I whole hearty agree with Papi. Since MorphOS Storage is the leading repo of our OS, then it should be mirrored in Grunch as well :)
    Amiga gaming Tribute: Watch, rate, comment :)
  • »06.11.19 - 12:50
    Profile Visit Website
  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1603 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Cool_amigaN wrote:
    I whole hearty agree with Papi. Since MorphOS Storage is the leading repo of our OS, then it should be mirrored in Grunch as well :)

    If you mean by mirroring that programs would be automatically added to Grunch, that's impossible, because people don't follow any exact scheme with their releases.

    But if someone has time to add manually every single file from MorphOS Storage to a Grunch database and keep doing that with all new releases, then it's possible. It's just that you have to be extra careful to check how programs should be installed and where they write their config/data files, and how they can be removed later. And even then you have to hope that developers don't change their distributions too much... or that should be handled again by the database maintainer. It just would be the best that each developer would have their own database, or at least be "Grunch aware" to keep consistent with their releases...

    [ Edited by jPV 06.11.2019 - 15:58 ]
  • »06.11.19 - 13:48
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cool_amigaN
    Posts: 537 from 2011/11/30
    Yeah, I know :) I mean to upload same content over to a Grunch db, while respecting the guidelines ofc. TBH, there would be no need for web version of MorphOS Storage if the same were to be found in Grunch. And checking/downloading/updating through the OS gives a much more transparent feeling imo. Anyway, I am grateful for Storage, the way it is now. It serves a high purpose to have a central repo for a niche OS, rater than scattered software and googling across the web for developers' websites.
    Amiga gaming Tribute: Watch, rate, comment :)
  • »06.11.19 - 13:59
    Profile Visit Website
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1957 from 2003/2/24
    Well for the most entries it would (should) be enough to replace the broken morphos-files URL with a morphos-storage one.

    This off course assumes that morphos-storage readmes confirm to the same pattern as those used on morphos-files (which really are just a copy of how Aminet handles them).
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »06.11.19 - 14:14
    Profile
  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1603 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Cool_amigaN wrote:
    TBH, there would be no need for web version of MorphOS Storage if the same were to be found in Grunch. And checking/downloading/updating through the OS gives a much more transparent feeling imo. Anyway, I am grateful for Storage, the way it is now. It serves a high purpose to have a central repo for a niche OS, rater than scattered software and googling across the web for developers' websites.

    MorphOS Storage has also lots of other content that wouldn't be that suitable for Grunch (or Aminet for that matter) like screenshots, videos, documents, etc. And it's also nice to have them available on web for other people to see, who don't have MorphOS setup yet etc.


    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Well for the most entries it would (should) be enough to replace the broken morphos-files URL with a morphos-storage one.

    This off course assumes that morphos-storage readmes confirm to the same pattern as those used on morphos-files (which really are just a copy of how Aminet handles them).

    I haven't tried to use Storage for Grunch for anything myself yet... Storage renames filenames to contain version numbers, but I guess Grunch could handle that too, but one more change in databases.

    BTW. could you change your database to some other server? :) It makes a slowdown at Grunch startup always for some reason...
  • »06.11.19 - 14:50
    Profile Visit Website
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1957 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    jPV wrote:


    BTW. could you change your database to some other server? :) It makes a slowdown at Grunch startup always for some reason...


    Thats the homepage provided by my ISP and if accessed from a browser it's instant. No idea what Geit/Grunch does different to make it take a minute of silence....
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »06.11.19 - 15:30
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 313 from 2012/4/28
    And some script guide to make our own databases to be compatibles.
    Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
    WinUAE + original OS 3.5&3.9
    Sam440ep 800 MHZ + OS 4.1 F.E.
    Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 F.E.
    MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.12
    PowerBook G4 1.65 + MorphOS 3.12
  • »17.11.19 - 11:33
    Profile Visit Website
  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1603 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Papiosaur wrote:
    Geit : It could be fine if Grunch could create a database by scanning www.morphos-storage.org with all archives, screenshots, videos, readme :-)

    As I told, it can't be done automatically, because all archives are differently organized. You have to be sure that installing and uninstalling works with each. It's not acceptable with Grunch that these operations would fail and be untested.
  • »17.11.19 - 11:45
    Profile Visit Website
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Brumiga
    Posts: 199 from 2004/4/3
    From: France
    I have some remarks about grunch and the database authors.

    @jPV, when I have launched grunch it downloaded your database. From my previous morphos installation, when my pegasos 2 g4 was runing, I have an old one. I compared both, they have the same size and same md5.

    @Kronos, your previous database as the one downloaded are a blank and empty html file, with .db extension. Why ? Could you provide to all users a correct database please ?

    @Templario, will you provide your own database ? Actually it misses.

    @All, grunch searches for leif's database but cannot find it. Then again why ? Is it possible to find it somewhere ?

    Brumiga
  • »17.11.19 - 13:08
    Profile
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1957 from 2003/2/24
    @Brumiga

    No idea what you downloaded how and where, but this is just a 4k textfile (and for sure downloaded instant so something in Grunch is causing the stall).
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »17.11.19 - 14:03
    Profile
  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1603 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    Brumiga wrote:
    @jPV, when I have launched grunch it downloaded your database. From my previous morphos installation, when my pegasos 2 g4 was runing, I have an old one. I compared both, they have the same size and same md5.


    Do you mean it's an old one and there should be newer? Does Grunch update it if you re-launch Grunch? Does the database tell there's update available?
  • »17.11.19 - 15:26
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2665 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Papiosaur wrote:
    Hello all,

    what do you think if Grunch will be connected to a database linked to MorphOS-Storage ?

    I think Grunch is an excellent software but i think it will be better with a database updated.


    It sounds like a lot of work to set up and constantly maintain, and also everyone wanting to use the MorphOS-Storage database, would need to alter their Grunch program to tell it to search for updates there, instead of the individual developer's database's, but I like the idea and think it would be very useful and convenient for most casual users.

    IIRC, Grunch can be set up with a primary location to look for updates for each program, plus a secondary URL, to look at if the first URL fails, but I might be wrong about that, as I have not used Grunch in a long while. I'm away from home again, so I can't check the behavior of Grunch for a few weeks.

    So, for what it's worth, you have my support if you decide to create a MorphOS-Storage database for many, or most of the programs that are available for download from that site, to make it easier for some users to use Grunch. Just as long as it is maintained often, otherwise it would be a detriment to the use of Grunch, if the database was not updated quickly, after any particular program update was released.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »17.11.19 - 22:54
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 313 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    jPV escribió:
    Quote:

    Templario wrote:
    And some script guide to make our own databases to be compatibles.

    You can't avoid the hard work of reading the provided Grunch.guide file :) Read that and then check some existing databases, like RNO_MorphOS.db :) You'll learn...


    Sorry friend, I didn't see the guide.
    Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
    WinUAE + original OS 3.5&3.9
    Sam440ep 800 MHZ + OS 4.1 F.E.
    Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 F.E.
    MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.12
    PowerBook G4 1.65 + MorphOS 3.12
  • »18.11.19 - 10:58
    Profile Visit Website
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 313 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    Brumiga escribió:
    I have some remarks about grunch and the database authors.

    @jPV, when I have launched grunch it downloaded your database. From my previous morphos installation, when my pegasos 2 g4 was runing, I have an old one. I compared both, they have the same size and same md5.

    @Kronos, your previous database as the one downloaded are a blank and empty html file, with .db extension. Why ? Could you provide to all users a correct database please ?

    @Templario, will you provide your own database ? Actually it misses.

    @All, grunch searches for leif's database but cannot find it. Then again why ? Is it possible to find it somewhere ?

    Brumiga


    I want make my first own database, because who haven't his own Grunch database, not exist in the Grunch program.
    Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
    WinUAE + original OS 3.5&3.9
    Sam440ep 800 MHZ + OS 4.1 F.E.
    Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 F.E.
    MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.12
    PowerBook G4 1.65 + MorphOS 3.12
  • »18.11.19 - 10:59
    Profile Visit Website
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 313 from 2012/4/28
    Hello to all, I'm making test with my own file database but I don't get install my own programs with Grunch, the database file is here:
    https://www.morguesoft.eu/Grunch/Templario_MorphOS.db
    I copy the commands from other databases but in my case the databa doesn't do anything.
    Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
    WinUAE + original OS 3.5&3.9
    Sam440ep 800 MHZ + OS 4.1 F.E.
    Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 F.E.
    MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.12
    PowerBook G4 1.65 + MorphOS 3.12
  • »19.11.19 - 09:09
    Profile Visit Website
  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1603 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    I guess Grunch doesn't support HTTPS urls, and your stuff goes to that kind of URLs even if HTTP is given.

    And at least couple of things that should be investigated...

    IIRC, dependencies should point to other Grunch packages, "Hollywood Plugins" isn't available in Grunch.

    I also don't see anything provided to check the version of programs on the server.. no URLREADME, no URLPATTERN, no version in the package name.. how could Grunch detect if there's a newer version available?
  • »23.11.19 - 13:51
    Profile Visit Website
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 313 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    jPV escribió:
    I guess Grunch doesn't support HTTPS urls, and your stuff goes to that kind of URLs even if HTTP is given.

    And at least couple of things that should be investigated...

    IIRC, dependencies should point to other Grunch packages, "Hollywood Plugins" isn't available in Grunch.

    I also don't see anything provided to check the version of programs on the server.. no URLREADME, no URLPATTERN, no version in the package name.. how could Grunch detect if there's a newer version available?


    Very complicated make the file for the Grunch updater.
    Thank you for your help.
    Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
    WinUAE + original OS 3.5&3.9
    Sam440ep 800 MHZ + OS 4.1 F.E.
    Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 F.E.
    MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.12
    PowerBook G4 1.65 + MorphOS 3.12
  • »26.11.19 - 09:23
    Profile Visit Website