Individual Computers leaving Amiga market
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 683 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Hyperion sold them the rights

    I think they rather licensed the rights to them or sold them a license ;-)


    Doesn't matter whether they licensed it, sold it, rented it, prostituted it or wrapped it around their penis and conceived children with it. It wasn't theirs. Please stick to the point.

    Quote:

    Even if true, the Manomio incident happened as long as 8 years ago.


    And?


    [ Edited by KennyR 19.03.2019 - 20:37 ]
  • »19.03.19 - 20:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Doesn't matter whether they licensed it, sold it, rented it, prostituted it or wrapped it [...]

    I'm with number6 here.

    > Please stick to the point.

    Please at least *try* to stick to the truth, even if it's hard sometimes.

    >>> iComp are practically the only company still in speaking terms with Hyperion.

    >> Even if true, the Manomio incident happened as long as 8 years ago.

    > And?

    What is the case now wasn't necessarily the case back then, obviously.
  • »19.03.19 - 20:57
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 683 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Please stick to the point.

    Please at least *try* to stick to the truth, even if it's hard sometimes.


    If I can give you a tip, it's not to fussily nitpick everything people say, and just go with the actual point. You're infamous for it, when you do it a lot nobody reads it, and it often drives the conversation completely off track for no good reason.

    Your sole contribution to this conversation was pointing out who IComp got the Commodore licence from. Thanks for that, but everything else you wrote was useless verbiage. Someone had actually predicted it on IRC when I wrote "bought" (of which I still give zero shits about the distinction, tbh), and said I should change it before you got wind - but I said, nah, not even Andreas could be that uselessly pedantic. Thanks for disappointing me.

    [ Edited by KennyR 19.03.2019 - 21:08 ]
  • »19.03.19 - 21:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If I can give you a tip [...]

    Please spare me the patronizing.

    > when you do it a lot nobody reads it

    Then just don't, easy :-)

    > Your sole contribution to this conversation was pointing out who IComp got the
    > Commodore licence from. [...] everything else you wrote was useless verbiage.

    I also pointed out that I don't deem it more likely that it was iComp who put Manomio in contact with Hyperion than that it was anybody else or nobody in particular at all, as today's perceived isolation of Hyperion wasn't there 8 years ago (or was it even more like 9 years ago?).

    > Someone had actually predicted it on IRC when I wrote "bought" [...],
    > and said I should change it

    You should listen to those who know better :-)

    > Thanks for disappointing me.

    You're welcome. Seems I'm not that predictable ;-)
  • »19.03.19 - 21:26
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 383 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Hyperion sold them the rights

    I think they rather licensed the rights to them or sold them a license ;-)

    > iComp are practically the only company still in speaking terms with Hyperion.

    Even if true, the Manomio incident happened as long as 8 years ago.

    > If Jens himself has bought Commodore rights from Hyperion too,
    > he'd be in very deep doo-doo.

    That's why he licensed from another company.


    Slow day and just trying to clarify some history here.
    As you know from my prior details posted about Manomio and IAmiga, this was about Amiga perceived rights.

    In reviewing this thread, however, I keep seeing the references to the Commodore kernel as being central to the dispute.

    Do you have any information/link to support this?

    I've seen such an allegation on another site, but also with no source. Upon contact, this poster also had no recollection of where this information might have come from.

    I'm only talking about the Hyperion connection obviously. Manomio's issues with the app store and anything about their demise is a different topic..

    If you know anything about this, I'd appreciate being filled in for sake of history. Thanks.

    #6
  • »15.09.19 - 14:30
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > In reviewing this thread, however, I keep seeing the references
    > to the Commodore kernel as being central to the dispute. Do you
    > have any information/link to support this?

    No, I do not have any information/link to support "the Commodore kernel [...] being central to the dispute", or anything else "being central to the dispute" for that matter.
  • »16.09.19 - 14:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > Yesterday's addendum to iComp's December press release: [...]
    > This is a remarkably idiotic reasoning in my opinion and
    > I'd be really baffled should he be successful with it.
    > More from him [...]

    "[...] we are not on exhibiting at the Amiga 34 event in Neuss, although iComp GmbH was among the initiators of the original Amiga 30 event, and we were even listed as a sponsor earlier this year. [...] Cloanto is co-sponsoring the Amiga 34, but at the same is pursuing legal steps against Hyperion [...]. [...] Cloanto was asked to to provide proof for the claims of owning certain rights, but did not do so until today. We see a strong similarity to their previous claim of owning an unlimited license to P96 for inclusion with an emulator product. [...] So why are we not starting legal action against Cloanto? Among legal professionals, there is the term of the "Italian Torpedo": If a party manages to take such a case to an Italian court, a timely judgement cannot be expected. Spending money on a lengthy lawsuit in Italy would be a very ineffective use of our money. [...] we have decided not to exhibit, because it would be against our policies to be a co-sponsor with Cloanto."
    https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/33/items/icomp-does-not-exhibit-at-amiga-34.html
  • »03.10.19 - 23:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2606 from 2003/2/24
    @ Andreas_Wolf

    IMHO Jens is more and more starting to sound like Hitler in his bunker towards the final hours when Soviets closed in, ordering deployment of fantasy forces that didn't even exist, etc. I don't think Jens is making a very coherent impression anymore? Maybe he shouldn't be this public about his issues?

    Well, it seems he won't pursue his "exclusive ownership" of P96. Not totally unexpected, I'd say. If he hadn't been so public about it before, maybe it would have been easier to swallow for him now instead of this bitter medicine? Crawling to the cross, but putting up an appearance that it's him calling the shots...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »03.10.19 - 23:37
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 383 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    @ Andreas_Wolf

    IMHO Jens is more and more starting to sound like Hitler in his bunker towards the final hours when Soviets closed in, ordering deployment of fantasy forces that didn't even exist, etc. I don't think Jens is making a very coherent impression anymore? Maybe he shouldn't be this public about his issues?

    Well, it seems he won't pursue his "exclusive ownership" of P96. Not totally unexpected, I'd say. If he hadn't been so public about it before, maybe it would have been easier to swallow for him now instead of this bitter medicine? Crawling to the cross, but putting up an appearance that it's him calling the shots...


    Apparently now everyone attending Amiga 34 will also have to be wardrobe conscious. (evil grin)

    #6
  • »04.10.19 - 12:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > it seems he won't pursue his "exclusive ownership" of P96.

    "There's also good news from Cloanto: During a dinner that was organized by the organizer of the Amiga34 show, Michael Battilana said among witnesses that the advertising of his emulator product can be changed in order to represent the actual facts: The P96 archive that is delivered by Cloanto on DVDs and in downloads has shareware status. Purchasing the emulator does not register the copy of P96 for the customer. [...] We are expecting Cloanto to deliver on these words by changing web sites and advertising of their resellers in the near future."
    https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/33/items/p96-v2-4-3-published.html

    See also the changes in iComp wiki's P96 article:
    http://wiki.icomp.de/w/index.php?title=P96&diff=7277&oldid=7210
  • »20.10.19 - 13:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2653 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > it seems he won't pursue his "exclusive ownership" of P96.

    "There's also good news from Cloanto: During a dinner that was organized by the organizer of the Amiga34 show, Michael Battilana said among witnesses that the advertising of his emulator product can be changed in order to represent the actual facts: The P96 archive that is delivered by Cloanto on DVDs and in downloads has shareware status. Purchasing the emulator does not register the copy of P96 for the customer. [...] We are expecting Cloanto to deliver on these words by changing web sites and advertising of their resellers in the near future."
    https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/33/items/p96-v2-4-3-published.html

    See also the changes in iComp wiki's P96 article:
    http://wiki.icomp.de/w/index.php?title=P96&diff=7277&oldid=7210


    Dinner at the Amiga34 event? Is this the same dinner, or meeting behind closed doors that some other source claimed that Mike Battilana was not invited to, and so could not have been quoted for saying anything? I guess these must be two different events, the dinner where Mike B. was in attendance, and the "behind closed doors" meeting of several prominent people in the community, which was said to NOT have Mike B. in attendance.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »21.10.19 - 05:02
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1593 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    Dinner at the Amiga34 event? Is this the same dinner, or meeting behind closed doors that some other source claimed that Mike Battilana was not invited to, and so could not have been quoted for saying anything? I guess these must be two different events, the dinner where Mike B. was in attendance, and the "behind closed doors" meeting of several prominent people in the community, which was said to NOT have Mike B. in attendance.

    Maybe they did (also) eat something there? :) Both parties seem to be around the same table....
  • »21.10.19 - 05:22
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    kriz
    Posts: 238 from 2005/10/18
    From: No(R)way
    Damn I hope Cloanto stops this bullshit, they are not doing anything for the Amiga scene and we need Jens great work !!
    -- Amiga 1200/4000 - Pegasos2 - MacMiniG4 / PowerBookG4 -- Horrordelic Records - Darkpsy Psychedelic Label - Based in Norway (Hell) --
  • »21.10.19 - 10:33
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1943 from 2003/2/24
    What BS??

    Undisputed:
    - Cloanto does have a licence to distribute AmigaOS files with AmigaForever (dating back to GateWay times)
    - Cloanto does have a licence to distribute P96 files with AmigaForever

    Disputed
    - Cloanto legally owns "Amiga" after buying it in McBill's garage sale
    - Cloanto has the right to distribute AmigaOS outside of AmigaForever
    - The P96 distributed with AmigaForever is a full version not requiring the user to pay the shareware fee


    Proven to be BS:
    - Cloanto is distributing P96 illegally
    - Cloanto has no right to distribute AmigaOS


    -> If Jens had put his brain into "on" mode he would never had started a dispute with Cloanto cos he doesn't have any beef in the only real dispute (who owns has rights to AmigaOS to what extent).

    [ Edited by Kronos 21.10.2019 - 13:37 ]
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »21.10.19 - 11:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If Jens had put his brain into "on" mode he would never had started
    > a dispute with Cloanto cos he doesn't have any beef in the only
    > real dispute (who owns has rights to AmigaOS to what extent).

    Yes, Jens' partisanship in the "real dispute" seems puzzling at first glance. Maybe the answer to that is something else (last paragraph) than a switched-off brain :-)
  • »21.10.19 - 12:30
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 383 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > it seems he won't pursue his "exclusive ownership" of P96.

    "There's also good news from Cloanto: During a dinner that was organized by the organizer of the Amiga34 show, Michael Battilana said among witnesses that the advertising of his emulator product can be changed in order to represent the actual facts: The P96 archive that is delivered by Cloanto on DVDs and in downloads has shareware status. Purchasing the emulator does not register the copy of P96 for the customer. [...] We are expecting Cloanto to deliver on these words by changing web sites and advertising of their resellers in the near future."
    https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/33/items/p96-v2-4-3-published.html

    See also the changes in iComp wiki's P96 article:
    http://wiki.icomp.de/w/index.php?title=P96&diff=7277&oldid=7210


    And the Cloanto side of this story is? (evil grin)

    I can not help but think back to the last time they tried this at Amiga 32. Trevor:
    Quote:

    Unfortunately, although there was a brief meeting in the hotel breakfast room, it was not really the right environment to be meaningful or productive.

    source of quote


    History repeats itself judging from the picture posted.


    @amigadave

    Indeed different events.
    Amitopia pic with description
    Easily compared with the pic that @JPV posted above in post #37.

    #6
  • »21.10.19 - 13:14
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