Individual Computers leaving Amiga market
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 558 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    As much as withdrawing if Cloanto wins plays to Jens' track record to throw away a whole market segment because he doesn't like someone and won't pay them any money...

    ...I'm going to assume it's faked unless better evidence comes along. I didn't fall for the "I'm OUT!" from Trevor's hacked AWN account either.
  • »07.03.19 - 16:58
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    asrael22
    Posts: 383 from 2014/6/11
    From: Germany
    I can only say that it would be a big loss if Jens would leave the market.
    Yes, it's classic market and not really related to MorphOS, but still.

    He's doing a lot in C64 market lately. Maybe there is not such a lot of shit going on with rights and such.
    I could understand it. Those law suites is something that nobody needs.


    Manfred

    [ Edited by asrael22 07.03.2019 - 20:08 ]
  • »07.03.19 - 20:08
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 558 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Another one you can blame Hyperion for. They claimed ownership of the ROMs, and sold a license to Jens which turned to mush in his hands when it was realised their ownership was (strongly) disputed and that it pretty much forced this lawsuit.

    But of course people won't - they'll blame Cloanto for withholding ROMs from them and for chasing a board manufacturer out of the market. Just as planned? They don't know of Jens' behaviour concerning Genesi, or Minimig/Natami, and quite what a person he actually is.
  • »07.03.19 - 21:17
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10302 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > For those compelled to follow the drama: [...]

    Yesterday's addendum to iComp's December press release:

    "Cloanto has published e-mails that supposedly support their claim to own a perpetual license to P96. However, the published eMails clearly show that the license is "non-upgradable", which of course applies to both sides. This means that the license would have had to be renewed with the release of "Amiga Forever" V5.1, which came out on december 23rd, 2002. Such a renewal did not happen, so the acquired license is void now. The authors were correct not telling us about any more current licensees, as Cloanto proved without a legal doubt."

    This is a remarkably idiotic reasoning in my opinion and I'd be really baffled should he be successful with it.

    More from him (emphasis mine):

    "Now Cloanto comes along and claims to own "practically everything" for an 18-year-ago payment of just over 1000,- EUR? See my addendum to the december news about P96, published yesterday. [...] I am fed up with all the fighting. Yes, the Amiga market has always been toxic, but there's a difference between a few trolls behaving like idiots in forums and a company just causing huge expenses for lawyers, just because they can. That's purely destructive, and I don't want to be part of that. [...] I will watch this until mid-february 2020. If Cloanto has won any of the lawsuits that are currently going on, there will be no more Amiga stuff from me. If the lawsuits are still going on by then, there will be no more Amiga stuff from me. Till then, everything will continue as it did; I'll focus on finishing started designs, such as Indivision AGA MK3 and ACA1240/1260."
  • »07.03.19 - 21:34
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1888 from 2003/6/4
    Jens is a valued developer, but he's definitely a drama queen, too.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »07.03.19 - 23:15
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1314 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Another one you can blame Hyperion for. They claimed ownership of the ROMs, and sold a license to Jens which turned to mush in his hands when it was realised their ownership was (strongly) disputed and that it pretty much forced this lawsuit.

    But of course people won't - they'll blame Cloanto for withholding ROMs from them and for chasing a board manufacturer out of the market. Just as planned? They don't know of Jens' behaviour concerning Genesi, or Minimig/Natami, and quite what a person he actually is.


    Pretty much. I'm not taking sides between Cloanto and Icomp, but it seems the poison pill was administered by Hyperion. There was that show report where Michael was shocked to find out Jens had major heat with him due to what HYPE had told him. I'd bet the P96 disagreement could have been worked out, but that poison pill killed everything.

    Get in bed with Hyperion at your own peril, even with Icomp it seems.
  • »07.03.19 - 23:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2552 from 2003/2/24
    Yes Jens was obviously duped by Ben Hermans. Hyperion is pure toxin, and has been so fo almost 20 years. And the story with Jens purchasing P96 and going after Cloanto this way with bogus claims in public is nothing but strange and puzzling.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »07.03.19 - 23:44
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 64 from 2009/5/6
    I love how there is all this fuss over emails from someone that got an email from someone else stating that someone (Jens) asked them to respond.. What total Bullshit.

    I don't believe any part of this nonsense and continue to be amazed at this community and your unfailing gullibility..

    MEH.. Whatever. Typical Amiga Land Bullshit
    "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." Quote from Rambo...
  • »08.03.19 - 00:19
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1314 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:
    I love how there is all this fuss over emails from someone that got an email from someone else stating that someone (Jens) asked them to respond.. What total Bullshit.

    I don't believe any part of this nonsense and continue to be amazed at this community and your unfailing gullibility..

    MEH.. Whatever. Typical Amiga Land Bullshit



    Email Jens yourself, he usually replies.
  • »08.03.19 - 03:43
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 139 from 2015/8/23
    There are many ppc haters in amiga community, who hate Ben, Hyperion after Amiga community reject their extremely dumb idea of dumb port of Amiga os to x86.

    But first sentence from cloanto pdf explains everything:

    > We'd prefer something like "UAE‐only, non‐upgradable licence".

    Jens has right, uae is uae, not fpga toys.
  • »08.03.19 - 07:22
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1047 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Another one you can blame Hyperion for. They claimed ownership of the ROMs, and sold a license to Jens which turned to mush in his hands when it was realised their ownership was (strongly) disputed and that it pretty much forced this lawsuit.

    But of course people won't - they'll blame Cloanto for withholding ROMs from them and for chasing a board manufacturer out of the market. Just as planned? They don't know of Jens' behaviour concerning Genesi, or Minimig/Natami, and quite what a person he actually is.


    Pretty much. I'm not taking sides between Cloanto and Icomp, but it seems the poison pill was administered by Hyperion. There was that show report where Michael was shocked to find out Jens had major heat with him due to what HYPE had told him. I'd bet the P96 disagreement could have been worked out, but that poison pill killed everything.

    Get in bed with Hyperion at your own peril, even with Icomp it seems.


    Lay down with a dog, you'll wake up with fleas.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »08.03.19 - 10:19
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1047 from 2013/5/24
    From: Englistan
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    There are many ppc haters in amiga community, who hate Ben, Hyperion after Amiga community reject their extremely dumb idea of dumb port of Amiga os to x86.

    But first sentence from cloanto pdf explains everything:

    > We'd prefer something like "UAE‐only, non‐upgradable licence".

    Jens has right, uae is uae, not fpga toys.





    Rejected who's "dumb idea of dumb port of Amiga os to x86"?

    You refer to Amithlon? The best chance the Amiga had of surviving and growing into something better than what we have today?

    No one rejected it. It was sabotaged.

    Start taking your pills again.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »08.03.19 - 10:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10302 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Jens was obviously duped by Ben Hermans.

    ...and by Abt & Kneer, as it seems.
  • »08.03.19 - 14:56
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 277 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    > Jens was obviously duped by Ben Hermans.


    only once?

    #6

    (fixed by request)
  • »08.03.19 - 15:16
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 558 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    ppcamiga1 wrote:
    There are many ppc haters in amiga community, who hate Ben, Hyperion after Amiga community reject their extremely dumb idea of dumb port of Amiga os to x86.

    But first sentence from cloanto pdf explains everything:

    > We'd prefer something like "UAE‐only, non‐upgradable licence".

    Jens has right, uae is uae, not fpga toys.



    It's because PPC failed so hard that we're even at this juncture. The settlement was supposed to be "Hyperion get AmigaOS4 and the AmigaOS4 name, but nothing else."

    Except, they saw 68k was turning big profits again, and decided they wanted in on that. Hyperion aren't interested in PPC any more.
  • »08.03.19 - 15:27
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 277 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Except, they saw 68k was turning big profits again, and decided they wanted in on that. Hyperion aren't interested in PPC any more.


    Not so sure about that.

    Source

    I think it's conceivable that they simply sought out the new partners they alluded to.
    Likely well prior to that posting.

    #6
  • »08.03.19 - 16:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10302 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> Jens was obviously duped by Ben Hermans.

    > only once?

    Just for clarification: The quote isn't mine, it's takemehomegrandma's. If you cut what I wrote, please also cut my name. Thanks.


    Edit: Thanks for fixing.

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 08.03.2019 - 17:40 ]
  • »08.03.19 - 17:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10302 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > first sentence from cloanto pdf explains everything:
    >
    >> We'd prefer something like "UAE‐only, non‐upgradable licence".
    >
    > Jens has right, uae is uae, not fpga toys.

    I don't think Cloanto's sentence means what you think it means.
  • »08.03.19 - 17:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2554 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:

    Lay down with a dog, you'll wake up with fleas.


    Like that quote, but love this one better;

    Get in bed with Hyperion, you'll end up sleeping with the fishes

    (American gangsters would place enemy's feet in bucket of concrete, let it harden then drop them into a deep lake)

    Jens has painted himself into a difficult corner, and refuses to negotiate his way out of it, instead, it seems he would rather go down with the Hyperion ship as it sinks. Too bad, as he has made several interesting hardware projects available to hundreds of Amiga users over the years, and I see no good reason for anyone to want him to leave the Amiga market, no matter what rumors there are about his short temper, or lack of customer support on some of his products.

    Edit: Then there is Jens attitude toward anyone who produces products that compete directly against any of his own products, where it seems he has no trouble spreading negative, and maybe some times false or misleading information about his competition. Still, I would not want him to leave the Amiga market, or never make another Amiga hardware add-on product.

    [ Edited by amigadave 18.03.2019 - 08:49 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »18.03.19 - 17:45
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 558 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    It's "common knowledge" Jens more or less produces his boards as a side-interest or hobby, rather than making any living profit out of them. He's already apparently quite wealthy. So he's quite able to abandon markets as he likes, whether out of disinterest, boredom, grudges, pettiness, vindictiveness, spite, or any of the other things most people running a business can't afford to make decisions on.

    Although the theory he does it for a hobby doesn't explain why he's been so viciously anti-competition through the years.
  • »18.03.19 - 19:39
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 558 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    I was actually just thinking about the Manomio debacle, where Hyperion sold them the rights to the Commodore kernel they did not actually own, causing them to go under.

    It strikes me as odd that anyone would actually go to Hyperion for such rights, since they make no claims of Commodore, chicken-lips or C64 IP in any way, nor have they been associated with it except via the very old Commodore-Amiga connection. Hype are also desperately short of networking contacts, seeing they're about as popular as a leper with explosive diarrhoea in an intensive care ward.

    One source of this could have been Jens, since iComp are practically the only company still in speaking terms with Hyperion. If Jens himself has bought Commodore rights from Hyperion too, he'd be in very deep doo-doo.
  • »19.03.19 - 17:43
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10302 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Hyperion sold them the rights

    I think they rather licensed the rights to them or sold them a license ;-)

    > iComp are practically the only company still in speaking terms with Hyperion.

    Even if true, the Manomio incident happened as long as 8 years ago.

    > If Jens himself has bought Commodore rights from Hyperion too,
    > he'd be in very deep doo-doo.

    That's why he licensed from another company.
  • »19.03.19 - 20:59
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