Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10974 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > seems Trevor mentioned somewhere possible MOS for x1000.

    Where?
  • »16.11.19 - 12:28
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  • vox
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    vox
    Posts: 462 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > seems Trevor mentioned somewhere possible MOS for x1000.

    Where?


    Supposedly on his Amiwest 2019 speech, if I got that right, since even OS4 websites
    dont give a digest.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
    YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
  • »16.11.19 - 17:40
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2706 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > seems Trevor mentioned somewhere possible MOS for x1000.

    Where?


    Supposedly on his Amiwest 2019 speech, if I got that right, since even OS4 websites
    dont give a digest.


    I don't know where you got your information, but I was at the 2019 AmiWest Show, and did not hear Trevor say anything about MorphOS support coming for the X1000 in his speech, or any conversations on the show floor. Since I own an X1000, I would love to have MorphOS running on it, but I doubt very much that it will ever happen, unless most of the X1000 owners get together and pay someone like BigFoot to do the port and drivers, which is highly unlikely.

    I would pay $100 to $200 towards such a bounty, but doubt that more than a few other X1000 owners would pay that much to get MorphOS for the X1000. In other words, it just isn't going to happen.

    Edit: I would be interested in knowing just how much work would be involved to make a port of MorphOS run on the X1000. Maybe parts of that work could be done by other X1000 owners who have coding capabilities, and the bounty to finish what ever was left to be completed could be a smaller amount of time and money required to make it happen? Maybe X1000 owners would finally get a working driver for the onboard Ethernet adapter if we could get a port of MorphOS for the X1000 released? (I'm just dreaming here)

    [ Edited by amigadave 17.11.2019 - 15:37 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »16.11.19 - 21:48
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10974 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> seems Trevor mentioned somewhere possible MOS for x1000.

    >> Where?

    > Supposedly on his Amiwest 2019 speech, if I got that right

    I just listened to his speech and have to confirm amigadave's recollection: no mention of the X1000 or MorphOS.
  • »16.11.19 - 22:36
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    number6
    Posts: 409 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> seems Trevor mentioned somewhere possible MOS for x1000.

    >> Where?

    > Supposedly on his Amiwest 2019 speech, if I got that right

    I just listened to his speech and have to confirm amigadave's recollection: no mention of the X1000 or MorphOS.


    The only mention of X1000 I am aware of is:
    about 24:00 mark
    When Steven discusses shortening the supported h/w list, models still in beta, and "still not heard from Hyperion about...", referring to X1000.

    #6
  • »17.11.19 - 12:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2706 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    @thread

    Would appreciate hearing any opinions on this.
    Background:
    Last court document October 8, 2019 from the "contract" case
    As it makes mention of the "trademark" case (by speaking of C-A Acquisitions Corp.), and given both case were basically pushed back because the court believed settlement was the likely outcome by end of year...
    Why then on November 6, 2019 was there a motion filed for default by C-A Acquistions Corp./Cloanto?

    Source

    #6


    Concerning the above mentioned (source link) "trademark case":

    ORDER granting Plaintiffs'16 Motion for Default Against Hyperion Entertainment CVBA

    No document available yet, but court orders usually are made public.

    #6




    Regarding your earlier question, about why CA_Acquisition Corp would continue to file new motions against Hyperion, even though the court is granting extensions because the court thinks that a settlement will be the final outcome before the end of the year, (if I am understanding your question correctly), I believe that Cloanto and CA_Acquisition Corp. MUST continue to act as if there will be no settlement with Hyperion, to continue to apply pressure on a certain Belgian lawyer, or such lawyer will not act in "good faith", as has apparently happened in previous negotiations. If Mike and the lawyers working for Cloanto and CA_Acquisition Corp. don't act as if no settlement will be reached, they may lose time, money and leverage to win any case they are involved in against Hyperion. They are smart to act as if Hyperion will attempt to act as friends, only to gain some kind of advantage, then stab Cloanto/CA_Acquisition Corp. in the back at the first opportunity, if they lower their guard. Just look at how Hyperion has acted in the past, and how they initially obtained the rights to AmigaOS4. Only a fool would ........, well, you get where I'm going with this train of thought.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »23.11.19 - 14:57
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10974 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Meanwhile, Battilana's Amiga 34 presentation:
    > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUD7y5mpTao

    Hyperion's Amiga 34 Q&A:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbB35uvPUyc

    First question/answer is about the topic at hand.

    Btw, at the 8:00 mark, the sales figure of OS4 (not sure if all versions for all platforms, or just all versions for Classic, or even just OS4.1FE for Classic) is revealed to have exceeded 14,000 copies.

    For a fun picture stop at 12:50 ;-)
  • »27.11.19 - 20:06
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2636 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Meanwhile, Battilana's Amiga 34 presentation:
    > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUD7y5mpTao

    Hyperion's Amiga 34 Q&A:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbB35uvPUyc

    First question/answer is about the topic at hand.

    Quote:

    Btw, at the 8:00 mark, the sales figure of OS4 (not sure if all versions for all platforms, or just all versions for Classic, or even just OS4.1FE for Classic) is revealed to have exceeded 14,000 copies.


    The most reasonable IMHO is that is *every* OS4 sale, on *any* platform, for *all time* added together. Of which almost all are probably abandoned by now since years, when people simply moved on...


    Quote:

    For a fun picture stop at 12:50 ;-)


    You mean this?



    OK, two questions:

    1) United?!
    2) Beauty?!
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »27.11.19 - 23:27
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10974 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> For a fun picture stop at 12:50 ;-)

    > You mean this?

    Yes. I just find it hilarious that when a Hyperion director of all people happens to have the stage, the title slide of Battilana's presentation is shown (inadvertently?), so that the still picture looks like Hyperion's De Groote is giving Battilana's speech or something. (Yes, I know that Battilana was the follow-up speaker, which kind of explains it.)
  • »28.11.19 - 00:23
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    number6
    Posts: 409 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> For a fun picture stop at 12:50 ;-)

    > You mean this?

    Yes. I just find it hilarious that when a Hyperion director of all people happens to have the stage, the title slide of Battilana's presentation is shown (inadvertently?), so that the still picture looks like Hyperion's De Groote is giving Battilana's speech or something. (Yes, I know that Battilana was the follow-up speaker, which kind of explains it.)


    I think "9" thumbs up of this q/a sums up the overall interest level here.

    #6
  • »01.12.19 - 19:15
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    KennyR
    Posts: 747 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> For a fun picture stop at 12:50 ;-)

    > You mean this?


    Yes. I just find it hilarious that when a Hyperion director of all people happens to have the stage, the title slide of Battilana's presentation is shown (inadvertently?), so that the still picture looks like Hyperion's De Groote is giving Battilana's speech or something. (Yes, I know that Battilana was the follow-up speaker, which kind of explains it.)


    Timothy De Groote is the one on the far right.

    Just not in this picture.


    [ Edited by KennyR 01.12.2019 - 18:20 ]
  • »01.12.19 - 19:19
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1397 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:

    I think "9" thumbs up of this q/a sums up the overall interest level here.

    #6


    Bingo! Nailed it.
  • »29.12.19 - 03:30
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    tolkien
    Posts: 335 from 2013/5/29
    Is difficult to a non native english speaker man to follow this legal mess.
    Can anyone resume it for dummy people like me? ;)
    PowerMac G5 - PowerBook G4 - MacMini with MorphOS. Amiga 1200/060 AmigaOS 3.x
  • »29.12.19 - 09:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10974 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > "ExecSG_AEon is [...] rewritten for the Tabor hardware. [...]"
    > - Trevor Dickinson, the new Bill McEwen

    Indeed:

    "The newly formed ExecSG team, under the supervision of Steven Solie, is also working hard to optimise and maximise the A1222's performance."
    http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=12005
  • »31.12.19 - 19:09
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1397 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > "ExecSG_AEon is [...] rewritten for the Tabor hardware. [...]"
    > - Trevor Dickinson, the new Bill McEwen

    Indeed:

    "The newly formed ExecSG team, under the supervision of Steven Solie, is also working hard to optimise and maximise the A1222's performance."
    http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=12005


    My god.. Let the thing die already Trevor! It is 2020 for cripes sake! A $500 board that gets smoked by a $30 rpi, or a free G4 Power Mac pulled out of a dumpster, will never fly! Good lawd!

    [ Edited by redrumloa 04.01.2020 - 14:10 ]
  • »04.01.20 - 20:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2706 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > "ExecSG_AEon is [...] rewritten for the Tabor hardware. [...]"
    > - Trevor Dickinson, the new Bill McEwen

    Indeed:

    "The newly formed ExecSG team, under the supervision of Steven Solie, is also working hard to optimise and maximise the A1222's performance."
    http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=12005


    My god.. Let the thing die already Trevor! It is 2020 for cripes sake! A $500 board that gets smoked by a $30 rpi, or a free G4 Power Mac pulled out of a dumpster, will never fly! Good lawd!


    Too late for that! He's already invested so much money to get components, have boards designed, (and probably redesigned once or twice) and has spent so much development time and money getting AmigaOS4 ported to it, and people optimizing for the non-standard FPU, it is way too far along to stop now, just weeks or months away from being able to say it is complete enough to release to Amiga users, who are way more lenient in accepting beta level solutions.

    I don't know how many Tabor units will sell, but there are at least a dozen or two dozen users waiting for the opportunity to buy a Tabor system. After that, A-Eon might be able to sell an additional 40 to 50 curious users who have $500 to throw away. I doubt that Trevor will be able to sell the 500 A1222 systems that he is probably hoping to sell, so he can recoup at least some of the money he has invested into the project. What I wonder is how many more "failed" projects will Trevor be willing to invest in, before he realizes that there is no way to make any money in the Amiga market with custom hardware (the Vampire boards are a rare exception)? The money surely could be used in more productive ways, and I hope that he will abandon custom motherboard creation in favor of only supporting software development, and perhaps porting to existing hardware, that is proven to be efficient and widely available.

    I know that Trevor's intentions are, and have always been, to help sustain and attempt to grow the Amiga community, by supporting it in many different ways, but unfortunately, he has listened to poor advice from many sources, which have cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars/euros/pounds(add whatever currency is used in New Zealand). I give him tons of credit for trying to make a difference, and creating something tangible for the community, where most people only sit at their keyboards, and spew useless opinions and criticisms. (not aiming this comment at anyone in particular, and recognizing that most users on MorphZone are much less prone to useless comments than some other sites).

    [ Edited by amigadave 04.01.2020 - 14:25 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »04.01.20 - 23:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10974 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the 500 A1222 systems that he is probably hoping to sell

    Considering he said he purchased a quantity of 1000 P1022 chips, it's probably twice that (boards plus systems that is) :-)

    > how many more "failed" projects will Trevor be willing to invest in, before he realizes that
    > there is no way to make any money in the Amiga market with custom hardware [...]?

    Is he in this for making profit? That's not the impression I got, at least. And we can't be sure he didn't break even with X1000 and/or X5000. With X1000 he probably did, which made him start X5000 and A1222 simultaneously (the severe Tabor delay may be obfuscating this fact).

    > I hope that he will abandon custom motherboard creation in favor of [...] perhaps
    > porting to existing hardware, that is proven to be [...] widely available.

    Unfortunately, the Raptor Blackbird is probably not quite fitting this description ;-)
  • »05.01.20 - 01:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2706 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    @Andreas_Wolf,

    I don't know if you are including A-Eon's development costs for the X1000, or X5000, when you say that you think that Trevor made a profit on selling X1000 systems, which allowed him to develop the X5000 and A1222 simultaneously, but Trevor himself has stated at least once that he did not come close to recouping the money spent to create the X1000, and unless he has sold many more X5000 systems than I think he has, I strongly doubt that he has made a profit on selling the X5000 yet. Since A-Eon is still selling X5000 systems, I guess they can eventually start making a profit above the design and manufacturing and distribution costs, but in such a small market, I believe that they may loss money on the X5000 and the A1222, unless they sell many more hundreds of systems over the next couple of years. I hope they do, as I am always wishing for Trevor's success, even when I don't agree with all of the decisions that A-Eon has made over the past several years. I know that his intentions are always to help grow the community, and any profits will surely be re-invested into other projects, which will also benefit the Amiga community.

    So, no, I don't think that Trevor is doing any of this to make a personal profit, but he did state that the X5000 needed to be priced to make at least a small profit, in order for the company to continue, and to fund other projects in the future. It is unfortunate that some of the advice that Trevor has listened to and acted on, has not turned out very well, but I think everyone should give him a lot of credit for doing something, besides moaning an complaining on Amiga forum sites, and doing nothing. He has tried to do his best to make a difference, and help the community move forward, and he continues to do so, even after losing what appears to be hundreds of thousands of dollars in design decision mistakes.

    Although Trevor did not mention a specific number, he has made multiple comments and expressions, during more than one AmiWest Show, which indicate that he has lost a large amount of money on the X1000, and spent a tremendous amount of money on the X5000 and A1222 designs. I just don't see how he can recoup anywhere close to that investment, with the small profit margin he will get from each X5000 and A1222 system, when the sales numbers are limited to a few hundred units. Maybe I'm wrong, and he will be able to sell almost all of the potential 1000 A1222 systems, when it is finally released in it's final "non-beta" state, and more X5000 systems will continue to sell in the future. I wish that would be true, but I remain very skeptical. Perhaps selling the Enhancer Packs will help keep A-Eon going, and the developer group that A-Eon supports will come up with more software that spurs more AmigaOS4 system sales?
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »06.01.20 - 07:25
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    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 202 from 2015/8/23
    Custom hardware is that made this hobby (Amiga) interesting.
    As long as there is no switch to unix as base spending money on Amiga software is waste money for nothing.
    We are very grateful to Trevor for his involvement in the Amiga 1222 project.
  • »06.01.20 - 10:49
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    Templario
    Posts: 361 from 2012/4/28
    From: Palencia city ...
    This look Amiga Wars from a near galaxy.
    Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
    WinUAE + original OS 3.5&3.9
    Sam440ep 800 MHZ + OS 4.1 F.E.
    Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 F.E.
    MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.13
    PowerBook G4 1.65 + MorphOS 3.13
  • »06.01.20 - 10:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10974 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> we can't be sure he didn't break even with X1000
    >> and/or X5000. With X1000 he probably did

    > Trevor himself has stated at least once that he did not come close to
    > recouping the money spent to create the X1000 [...]. [...] Trevor [...]
    > has made multiple comments and expressions [...] which indicate
    > that he has lost a large amount of money on the X1000

    Indeed, you are right. My memory was wrong here.
  • »06.01.20 - 11:39
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    number6
    Posts: 409 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Addendum:

    >> part 3, stated to have newish information on this history

    > Yes, even the first page does have new information not made public before :-)

    Confirmation by Trevor in recent Amiga Future issue of some of these comments (emphasis mine):

    "the long drawn out saga over delivery of the CPUs had raised some concerns. Moorley privately contacted A-EON's bank in Belgium to obtain the transaction history only to discover that the account was virtually empty. Apparently, Hyperion [...] had used A-EON’s funds to keep itself afloat. As a result, A-EON did not have enough money to pay Varisys for the Nemo 2.0 programme... ...I was still keen to see the project through and fortunately Moorley agreed with me. A repayment schedule was agreed with Hyperion/Hermans and, in late December [2010], he resigned his A-EON directorship and relinquished his token shareholding in the company. I took over the management of A-EON on a temporary basis and began co-ordinating with Varisys, AmigaKit and the Hyperion OS4 development team to get the X1000 project back on track."
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/1gMRbIa_V9Lb5MJMiEYPwtwzFeCBjWRQZ/edit


    At a loss for words here. "mindboggling" perhaps?

    In an exchange yesterday after Costel returned to active posting on OS4welt:
    cgutjahr appears to mention this "event" described in your posting.

    Costel's response

    Please tell me the translation I receive is wrong and the director/board member is not saying what I think he's saying...

    #6
  • »16.01.20 - 17:15
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