Discussion of the Tabor / A1222 mainboard
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 288 from 2008/8/10
    @Jim

    Now I am confused.

    First you said "Yes, but in private a couple have admitted to actually receiving them."

    Then you said "two developers you are well familiar with either have them or at least were offered the boards."

    Is this 2 different instances? One group that did receive boards and another group that either do or do not have boards?

    #6
  • »09.04.19 - 16:04
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1870 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Kronos, a "brainfart" is a mistake made in a moment from of lack of consideration.
    .....
    This was researched and planned out...badly.
    ...
    Tabor was and is a bad/stupid design, poorly suited for our market (and weak for any other).




    Potato, Kartoffel, pomme de terre......

    ;)
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »09.04.19 - 18:36
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4818 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Kronos, a "brainfart" is a mistake made in a moment from of lack of consideration.
    .....
    This was researched and planned out...badly.
    ...
    Tabor was and is a bad/stupid design, poorly suited for our market (and weak for any other).




    Potato, Kartoffel, pomme de terre......

    ;)


    No...more specific. Brainfarts are spontaneous, this crap took planning...bad planning.

    More like a "brainshit" than a "brainfart". ;-)
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.04.19 - 19:55
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1870 from 2003/2/24
    Nah, started as a brainfart and then noone had the brains/guts to stop it from being implemented.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »09.04.19 - 20:06
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4818 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Nah, started as a brainfart and then noone had the brains/guts to stop it from being implemented.


    We refer to that as a "shart". Starts out as a fart, but then something more discusting occurs.

    So maybe a "brainshart"?

    I notice Acube doesn't seem too interested in discussing this board.
    I thought they were to be involved, but outside of firmware I don't see it.

    Someone else recently contacted me about the idea of a T10XX based board, but its really too big a project to take on without an experienced partner (i.e. - Varisys, Acube, Genesi, etc.). This idea never gained traction when I was pushing it, so I'm wary of re-involving myself with it.

    Right now, I'm rooting for Roberto Innocenti's project. At least he had the sense to team up with a profession design company.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.04.19 - 20:13
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10371 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> in private a couple have admitted to actually receiving them

    >> Interesting :-)

    > yes [...], two developers [...] either have them or at least were offered the boards.

    Backpedaling? :-)

    > If Tabor hasn't [...] a large number of boards manufactured

    It hasn't.

    > then now would be a good time to look at adapting
    > Acube's T2080 laptop board design

    There is no T2080 laptop board design yet, just schematics, as the start of the board design phase requires the final chassis to be decided for first, which hasn't happened yet.

    https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2019/04/march-2019-schematic-updates/

    > 50% faster clock, twice the cores, four times the concurrent threads,
    > better Soc I/O, and a 64bit CPU (not 32 bit).

    ...as well as a standard FPU and AltiVec SIMD :-)
  • »09.04.19 - 21:23
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4818 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >> yes [...], two developers [...] either have them or at least were offered the boards.

    >Backpedaling? :-)

    Not necessarily backpedaling, I was told two were received.
    I just have this bad habit (probably from my business training) of always adding qualifiers.

    >https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2019/04/march-2019-schematic-updates/

    >...as well as a standard FPU and AltiVec SIMD :-)

    Yes, that does make a difference, doesn't it?

    Since the Soc is only part of the board pricing equation, and a T2080 is only about $150 more than a P1022...

    As to 'only' having the schematics, hey, I'm actually surprised it got that far. And as to chassis, that does complicate board layout, but a specific chassis was discussed awhile ago.

    If I could have dragged Bill Buck into this, sourcing a chasis might be easier. After all, he used to make laptops and even had prototypes of a low cost model made by a Mexican firm ATTO. If new C64 and Amiga cases can be made, a laptop case is only a bit more complicated.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.04.19 - 21:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10371 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > a T2080 is only about $150 more than a P1022...

    Current pricing at distributors looks different than years ago. Lowest single-quantity prices I can find now are about 100 USD for 1.2 GHz P1022 and about 200 USD for 1.8 GHz T2080. Seems P1022 price has about doubled over the years, but I believe A-Eon stocked up with P1022 chips when it was still cheap.

    >>> then now would be a good time to look at adapting
    >>> Acube's T2080 laptop board design

    >> There is no T2080 laptop board design yet, just schematics

    > As to 'only' having the schematics, hey, I'm actually surprised it got that far.

    Yes, it's just there's no work on board design started yet that could be adapted for anything.

    > a specific chassis was discussed awhile ago.

    This may be, but a week ago there was still no decision arrived at, as reported in the linked status update.
  • »10.04.19 - 00:02
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4818 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    >> a specific chassis was discussed awhile ago.

    >This may be, but a week ago there was still no decision arrived at, as reported in the linked status update.

    Yes, but the point is we do more than discuss, we get scheisse done.

    The design, when laid out, should lend itself to reworking as a mini itx board.

    One thing I've been thinking about is would you keep the MXM connector, or and a PCI-E slot?
    The former would make everything much more compact, but the later allows for more powerful graphics (then again, how much power does MorphOS need).

    Periodically a vendor for Cadence Allegro contacts me to see if I want to upgrade my design software.
    If the layouts get done (and Acube is ready to strt them), I may just have to blow the $1500.

    If I had a functional layout, I have contacts that could build the prototypes.

    After all, my company used to build hardware in the '80s and '90s.
    Its just a LOT more complicated now.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.04.19 - 14:29
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1320 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Outside of trusting Ben Herman's, I'd consider it Trevor's first major mis-step.


    Nah, his first misstep was considering entering the market at all.
  • »10.04.19 - 16:30
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4818 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Outside of trusting Ben Herman's, I'd consider it Trevor's first major mis-step.


    Nah, his first misstep was considering entering the market at all.


    ;-) Yeah, the market's cursed like Tut's "Curse of the Pharaohs".
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.04.19 - 17:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10371 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The design, when laid out, should lend itself to reworking as a mini itx board.

    Yes, A-Eon could commission ACube to do this for a new T2080-based product after Tabor.

    > would you keep the MXM connector, or and a PCI-E slot?

    I'd go for a PCIe slot.
  • »10.04.19 - 17:11
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4818 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > The design, when laid out, should lend itself to reworking as a mini itx board.

    Yes, A-Eon could commission ACube to do this for a new T2080-based product after Tabor.

    > would you keep the MXM connector, or and a PCI-E slot?

    I'd go for a PCIe slot.


    My inclination too, but think of how small an MXM based system could be.
    It could make a Mac Mini look large.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.04.19 - 17:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10371 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > I believe A-Eon stocked up with P1022 chips when it was still cheap.

    Confirmed by Trevor Dickinson:

    "We pre-paid for 1,000 P1022 CPUs [...] in preparation for the first commercial production of motherboards which we anticipated would take place in late 2015/early 2016. [...] We have all the CPUs in-hand [...]. [...] we ordered and pre-paid for all the long lead time items including 1000 Freescale P1022 CPUs so we would have the key components available once we started the full manufacturing run."
    https://www.exec.pl/article.jsp?nid=189&Amiga_present_and_future:_interview_with_Trevor_Dickinson
  • »20.04.19 - 14:10
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 581 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Outside of trusting Ben Herman's, I'd consider it Trevor's first major mis-step.


    Nah, his first misstep was considering entering the market at all.


    ;-) Yeah, the market's cursed like Tut's "Curse of the Pharaohs".


    It isn't cursed, it's just far too small and its ownership far too fragmented and unsure to make any return on any money put into it.

    Trevor should know this by now, but he keeps battering his face off a brick wall nonetheless.
  • »20.04.19 - 20:21
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