Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 480 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Trevor/A-Eon have been quick to post AmigaWorld News articles when they aquire
    > something new. Forum threads even accentuate this proud ownership by stating such
    > things a 2nd time to be sure people are aware. [...] I'd like to know what you consider
    > a valid reason for the uncharacteristic delay in announcing the purchase

    A valid explanation could be, as a comment on amiga-news.de claims, that not the corporate entity A-Eon purchased ExecSG but the natural person Robert Trevor Dickinson himself did.


    Funny you should mention that.
    You might recall Ben's denial about an offer to purchase Hyperion?
    Usual semantics applied by mentioning A-EON and not Trevor by name to indicate to the casual reader that no offer had been made at all...

    #6


    Source

    #6
  • »16.03.19 - 22:46
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12097 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > HAL or not, ExecSG does have to be adapted for every new piece of hardware.

    Correct, a HAL is basically about encapsulating the hardware-dependent parts of the kernel instead of having them scattered around. What you were incorrect on, though, was your implication that the existence of a HAL means that adaptation wasn't necessary. I don't recall Hyperion or the Friedens claiming or implying such thing.

    > I'm not interested in your or Hyperion's sophistry of what a HAL is or not.

    Interested or not, it's simply a technical term that doesn't mean what you think it means.
  • »16.03.19 - 22:56
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Now Trevor denies A-Eon has bought ExecSG. By Amiga standards, that probably means he's either licensing it or he bought it personally.

    Truth has never been a big priority in Amigaland. I fart on the lot of them.
  • »16.03.19 - 23:17
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Not only unpaid, but also actually paying! And others have been in a far worse situation! (While obviously keeping up appearance...)

    https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=43167&forum=2&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#822423

    Quote:

    Quote:

    Surely this implication that the role was unpaid isn't accurate?


    This was one of those negative paying jobs. Looking back, I sunk thousands of my own dollars into all sorts of initiatives. For example, show sponsorships, t-shirts, room rentals, give aways, raffle prizes, paying developers myself, etc.

    I did do one paid contract job but that was not as "Team Lead" and that was it for income.

    That said, others have suffered FAR more than I ever did. So don't think I had a tough time relative to what those people suffered. I won't mention names here.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »16.03.19 - 23:21
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12097 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Now Trevor denies A-Eon has bought ExecSG. [...]
    > that probably means [...] he bought it personally.

    Yes, see comment #735.
  • »16.03.19 - 23:23
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Trevor/A-Eon have been quick to post AmigaWorld News articles when they aquire
    > something new. Forum threads even accentuate this proud ownership by stating such
    > things a 2nd time to be sure people are aware. [...] I'd like to know what you consider
    > a valid reason for the uncharacteristic delay in announcing the purchase

    A valid explanation could be, as a comment on amiga-news.de claims, that not the corporate entity A-Eon purchased ExecSG but the natural person Robert Trevor Dickinson himself did.


    Funny you should mention that.
    You might recall Ben's denial about an offer to purchase Hyperion?
    Usual semantics applied by mentioning A-EON and not Trevor by name to indicate to the casual reader that no offer had been made at all...

    #6


    Source

    #6


    Not being able to read/write German, and not a usual visitor of www.amiga-news.de, who is the member there that is making those statements about Trevor, A-Eon, Colanto and ExecSG, quoted above? Do we know who the real person is, that posted those comments? Or are they just like much of the speculation posted here and everywhere on Amiga forums?
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »17.03.19 - 17:52
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Within all of this colossal "F"ed up mess of litigation has anyone else besides me considered the question of just how much of the hundreds of thousands of Euros that Ben Hermans claims he is owed for the acquisition (theft) of AmigaOS4, and the additional money he claims he is owed, due to "contributions" he has made since its acquisition, are actually inflated or exaggerated fees for his legal services, making me wonder exactly how much actual "CASH" currency Ben Hermans has ever spent on Hyperion Entertainment, out of his own pocket, so to speak? He claims to be owed some crazy amount of currency from Hyperion Entertainment, but I doubt that much of that claim is actual currency that he has put into the company, and is instead, just his legal fees for time he has spent preparing and filing legal documents (perhaps at a higher than normal hourly rate). It is rather obvious that Hyperion has spent more time and effort fighting legal battles, than it has paid programmers for developing AmigaOS4.

    I have no idea what is going on between Colanto/C-A Acquisition, and A-Eon/Trevor Dickinson, but I hope that every developer/programmer who is still interested in creating anything for the Amiga community realizes that Colanto and A-Eon are much, much more likely to pay them for their hard work, than Hyperion Entertainment ever has, or ever will. I really don't understand how anyone could continue to work for, or with Hyperion, or any company that has any ties to Ben Hermans, but that is just my personal opinion, from a person who gets his information primarily from Amiga forum posts, so what do I know.

    Edit: I am a little surprised, and greatly relieved that the Frieden Bros didn't get screwed by a BH created contract that could have taken their ExecSG from them. They made a huge mistake ever working for Hyperion in the first place, but at least they didn't compound their first mistake with a second mistake, and they were able to retain ownership of their work.

    [ Edited by amigadave 17.03.2019 - 09:19 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »17.03.19 - 18:14
    Profile
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2257 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    I am a little surprised, and greatly relieved that the Frieden Bros didn't get screwed by a BH created contract that could have taken their ExecSG from them. They made a huge mistake ever working for Hyperion in the first place, but at least they didn't compound their first mistake with a second mistake, and they were able to retain ownership of their work.


    Better wait till the fat lady starts singing......
  • »17.03.19 - 18:31
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 480 from 2008/8/10
    @amigadave

    The only link from my post #747 is Trevor's official statement to me from yesterday.

    I think you meant to address the link Andreas offered?

    #6
  • »17.03.19 - 18:37
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    @amigadave

    cLOanto

    ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »17.03.19 - 19:56
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    So Trevor bought ExecSG? Does this mean The Wonder Twins have officially left the building?

    What a shitshow on that side of the fence. I can't feel bad for OS4 users though. They should have known what they were getting in bed with before they dropped $3k+.
  • »17.03.19 - 21:20
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12097 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > who is the member there that is making those statements about
    > Trevor, A-Eon, Colanto and ExecSG, quoted above? Do we know
    > who the real person is, that posted those comments?

    He has posted anonymously, which is possible to do on amiga-news.de.
  • »17.03.19 - 21:27
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    I am a little surprised, and greatly relieved that the Frieden Bros didn't get screwed by a BH created contract that could have taken their ExecSG from them. They made a huge mistake ever working for Hyperion in the first place, but at least they didn't compound their first mistake with a second mistake, and they were able to retain ownership of their work.


    There was a rumour that the Friedens took Hyperion to court for ownership of ExecSG. Whether this is true I don't know, whether it actually was settled before it hit the courts is unknown as well. As is the general timeline of when it would have happened - no court documents ever appeared. Also the rumour that Hyperion were licensing ExecSG are unconfirmed. It's one of those "well known" things that nobody seems to know how it's well known, but nobody is denying either.

    I wouldn't be particularly surprised if true, as the Friedens have always been unwilling to part with their code, even if based on GPL. But regardless, they seem to have escaped a trap that (almost) every other OS4 developer has fallen into.
  • »17.03.19 - 21:32
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 480 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    I am a little surprised, and greatly relieved that the Frieden Bros didn't get screwed by a BH created contract that could have taken their ExecSG from them. They made a huge mistake ever working for Hyperion in the first place, but at least they didn't compound their first mistake with a second mistake, and they were able to retain ownership of their work.


    There was a rumour that the Friedens took Hyperion to court for ownership of ExecSG. Whether this is true I don't know, whether it actually was settled before it hit the courts is unknown as well. As is the general timeline of when it would have happened - no court documents ever appeared. Also the rumour that Hyperion were licensing ExecSG are unconfirmed. It's one of those "well known" things that nobody seems to know how it's well known, but nobody is denying either.

    I wouldn't be particularly surprised if true, as the Friedens have always been unwilling to part with their code, even if based on GPL. But regardless, they seem to have escaped a trap that (almost) every other OS4 developer has fallen into.


    This?
    Source

    You might be thinking about the euro case filed against both Hyperion VOF and Amiga Inc. here.
    It was later stated that there was no animosity between the Friedens/Vallinotto and Hyperion.
    It was always described as a means to protect their IP from Amiga Inc.
    *shrug*

    #6
  • »17.03.19 - 22:12
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12097 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > There was a rumour that the Friedens took Hyperion to court for
    > ownership of ExecSG.

    This "rumour" is fairly well documented (see comment #73). And it wasn't just Hyperion on the defendant side.

    > whether it actually was settled before it hit the courts is unknown
    > as well. As is the general timeline of when it would have happened -
    > no court documents ever appeared.

    A settlement wouldn't really have made sense as it was a negative declaratory action started in May 2007. The alleged outcome (somewhen after July 2008, as the case was reported as pending (p. 4) then) was that ExecSG was confirmed being the property of the Friedens (as well as HDSCSIToolkit the property of Vallinotto) so that Amiga Inc. couldn't get it from Hyperion even if another court should later decide that Hyperion was to hand over IP to Amiga Inc.

    From the December 2007 court documents (p. 27 to 34, exhibiting the May 2007 declaratory action):
    "[Hyperion] concluded an agreement under Belgian law with Messrs Thomas Frieden and Hans-Joerg Frieden [...] on 3 January 2002, called "Software development & license agreement". In [...] this agreement [...], the [Friedens] explicitly reserved to themselves all intellectual property rights on the developed software with the exception of the restricted license granted [...] to [Hyperion]. The software developed by the [Friedens] ("ExecSG") is described in Annex 1 of the agreement [...] between [Hyperion] and the [Friedens]."

    > the rumour that Hyperion were licensing ExecSG are unconfirmed.

    How should Hyperion have been able to sell OS4 containing ExecSG without obtaining a license to ExecSG from the Friedens? The January 2002 "Software development & license agreement" between Hyperion and the Friedens regarding ExecSG is contained in full in the May 2007 court documents (p. 5 to 16).

    > the Friedens have always been unwilling to part with their code

    According to the January 2002 "Software development & license agreement", Hyperion only has an object code license (as opposed to a source code license).
  • »17.03.19 - 22:13
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    I am a little surprised, and greatly relieved that the Frieden Bros didn't get screwed by a BH created contract that could have taken their ExecSG from them. They made a huge mistake ever working for Hyperion in the first place, but at least they didn't compound their first mistake with a second mistake, and they were able to retain ownership of their work.


    There was a rumour that the Friedens took Hyperion to court for ownership of ExecSG. Whether this is true I don't know, whether it actually was settled before it hit the courts is unknown as well. As is the general timeline of when it would have happened - no court documents ever appeared. Also the rumour that Hyperion were licensing ExecSG are unconfirmed. It's one of those "well known" things that nobody seems to know how it's well known, but nobody is denying either.

    I wouldn't be particularly surprised if true, as the Friedens have always been unwilling to part with their code, even if based on GPL. But regardless, they seem to have escaped a trap that (almost) every other OS4 developer has fallen into.


    This?
    Source

    You might be thinking about the euro case filed against both Hyperion VOF and Amiga Inc. here.
    It was later stated that there was no animosity between the Friedens/Vallinotto and Hyperion.
    It was always described as a means to protect their IP from Amiga Inc.
    *shrug*

    #6


    The ExecSG source is in the Hyperion svn repo.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »18.03.19 - 00:24
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 480 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:

    It might make me more unpopular to be objective, but...

    Purported email content text overlayed on a podcast from a 3rd party admittedly new to this amiga stuff..
    Not to mention I never saw/heard anyone say he had permission to post Mike's mails, although some would assume so.
    And 3rd parties making "announcements" for principals?
    A-eon purchaser - Hyperion seller. I also would have preferred a statement from one or both of the actual parties involved, as in a joint press release. ha! Nevertheless, the issue is moot now.

    Sorry, but this way of issuing "emails" seemed a bit too much of a counter to the Jens and his "these weren't meant for..." affair.

    #6


    Additionally, now a claimed self imposed deadline has clearly been missed.

    Quote:

    Mike also said that there will be some announcements quite soon, as in days

    *cough*
    Although Amiga time never has any relation to real time, we've exceeded "in days" now.

    I believe this is related to the boatload of documents filed recently concerning the lawsuit.
    Recently, Pacer shortened the list shown, but prior there were many new filings of motions and responses.
    If I understand this correctly, there might be a tie as to why the "announcements" have yet to be seen.

    In order for the case to proceed and C-A Acquisition Corporation to also gain a court ruling on the preliminary injunction against Hyperion...they must first be enjoined in the current lawsuit or...
    file their own.
    Unless I'm wrong, the current activity is another stalling tactic to attempt to prevent C-A from enjoining in the lawsuit, thereby delaying plans.

    #6
  • »18.03.19 - 13:58
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    So I take it then that the retro community reboot is dead and buried? What with all the litigation, and Jens about to leave and stop making hardware.

    Just another entry in Ben Hermans' long list of crimes against the Amiga platform. Someone (kolla?) joked that he had a painting of Mehdi Ali above his bed, but I think he's done far, far more damage. Ali was just a breaker, set up to try to put Commodore's costs back into the green no matter what. Ben has cynically used everyone in the community, set friend against friend, and made sure that bitterness and debt are the only things that increase with the years.
  • »18.03.19 - 14:29
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    So I take it then that the retro community reboot is dead and buried? What with all the litigation, and Jens about to leave and stop making hardware.

    Just another entry in Ben Hermans' long list of crimes against the Amiga platform. Someone (kolla?) joked that he had a painting of Mehdi Ali above his bed, but I think he's done far, far more damage. Ali was just a breaker, set up to try to put Commodore's costs back into the green no matter what. Ben has cynically used everyone in the community, set friend against friend, and made sure that bitterness and debt are the only things that increase with the years.


    Speaking as a C= 8bit fan first and foremost, the hope is Jens only leaves the Amiga market and not the 8bit market. It seems to be his primary bread and butter in recent years anyhow.
  • »18.03.19 - 17:19
    Profile