> For those compelled to follow the drama: [...]

Yesterday's addendum to iComp's December press release:

"Cloanto has published e-mails that supposedly support their claim to own a perpetual license to P96. However, the published eMails clearly show that the license is "non-upgradable", which of course applies to both sides. This means that the license would have had to be renewed with the release of "Amiga Forever" V5.1, which came out on december 23rd, 2002. Such a renewal did not happen, so the acquired license is void now. The authors were correct not telling us about any more current licensees, as Cloanto proved without a legal doubt."

This is a remarkably idiotic reasoning in my opinion and I'd be really baffled should he be successful with it.

More from him (emphasis mine):

"Now Cloanto comes along and claims to own "practically everything" for an 18-year-ago payment of just over 1000,- EUR? See my addendum to the december news about P96, published yesterday. [...] I am fed up with all the fighting. Yes, the Amiga market has always been toxic, but there's a difference between a few trolls behaving like idiots in forums and a company just causing huge expenses for lawyers, just because they can. That's purely destructive, and I don't want to be part of that. [...] I will watch this until mid-february 2020. If Cloanto has won any of the lawsuits that are currently going on, there will be no more Amiga stuff from me. If the lawsuits are still going on by then, there will be no more Amiga stuff from me. Till then, everything will continue as it did; I'll focus on finishing started designs, such as Indivision AGA MK3 and ACA1240/1260."

Jens is a valued developer, but he's definitely a drama queen, too.

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Pretty much. I'm not taking sides between Cloanto and Icomp, but it seems the poison pill was administered by Hyperion. There was that show report where Michael was shocked to find out Jens had major heat with him due to what HYPE had told him. I'd bet the P96 disagreement could have been worked out, but that poison pill killed everything.

Get in bed with Hyperion at your own peril, even with Icomp it seems.

Yes Jens was obviously duped by Ben Hermans. Hyperion is pure toxin, and has been so fo almost 20 years. And the story with Jens purchasing P96 and going after Cloanto this way with bogus claims in public is nothing but strange and puzzling.

I love how there is all this fuss over emails from someone that got an email from someone else stating that someone (Jens) asked them to respond.. What total Bullshit.

I don't believe any part of this nonsense and continue to be amazed at this community and your unfailing gullibility..

MEH.. Whatever. Typical Amiga Land Bullshit

Quote:

Email Jens yourself, he usually replies.

@redrumloa

Indeed Jens' inventive interpretation of the word "non-upgradeable" sounds quite Hermans-like...

Our yesterday's news-item, by the way:
https://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2019-03-00019-EN.html

[ Edited by Senex 08.03.2019 - 05:05 ]

There are many ppc haters in amiga community, who hate Ben, Hyperion after Amiga community reject their extremely dumb idea of dumb port of Amiga os to x86.

But first sentence from cloanto pdf explains everything:

> We'd prefer something like "UAE‐only, non‐upgradable licence".

Jens has right, uae is uae, not fpga toys.

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Lay down with a dog, you'll wake up with fleas.

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Rejected who's "dumb idea of dumb port of Amiga os to x86"?

You refer to Amithlon? The best chance the Amiga had of surviving and growing into something better than what we have today?

No one rejected it. It was sabotaged.

Start taking your pills again.

> Jens was obviously duped by Ben Hermans.

...and by Abt & Kneer, as it seems.

Quote:

only once?

#6

(fixed by request)

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It's because PPC failed so hard that we're even at this juncture. The settlement was supposed to be "Hyperion get AmigaOS4 and the AmigaOS4 name, but nothing else."

Except, they saw 68k was turning big profits again, and decided they wanted in on that. Hyperion aren't interested in PPC any more.

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Not so sure about that.

Source

I think it's conceivable that they simply sought out the new partners they alluded to.
Likely well prior to that posting.

#6

>> Andreas_Wolf wrote:
>>> Jens was obviously duped by Ben Hermans.

> only once?

Just for clarification: The quote isn't mine, it's takemehomegrandma's. If you cut what I wrote, please also cut my name. Thanks.


Edit: Thanks for fixing.

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 08.03.2019 - 17:40 ]

> first sentence from cloanto pdf explains everything:
>
>> We'd prefer something like "UAE‐only, non‐upgradable licence".
>
> Jens has right, uae is uae, not fpga toys.

I don't think Cloanto's sentence means what you think it means.

Quote:

Like that quote, but love this one better;

Get in bed with Hyperion, you'll end up sleeping with the fishes

(American gangsters would place enemy's feet in bucket of concrete, let it harden then drop them into a deep lake)

Jens has painted himself into a difficult corner, and refuses to negotiate his way out of it, instead, it seems he would rather go down with the Hyperion ship as it sinks. Too bad, as he has made several interesting hardware projects available to hundreds of Amiga users over the years, and I see no good reason for anyone to want him to leave the Amiga market, no matter what rumors there are about his short temper, or lack of customer support on some of his products.

Edit: Then there is Jens attitude toward anyone who produces products that compete directly against any of his own products, where it seems he has no trouble spreading negative, and maybe some times false or misleading information about his competition. Still, I would not want him to leave the Amiga market, or never make another Amiga hardware add-on product.

[ Edited by amigadave 18.03.2019 - 08:49 ]

It's "common knowledge" Jens more or less produces his boards as a side-interest or hobby, rather than making any living profit out of them. He's already apparently quite wealthy. So he's quite able to abandon markets as he likes, whether out of disinterest, boredom, grudges, pettiness, vindictiveness, spite, or any of the other things most people running a business can't afford to make decisions on.

Although the theory he does it for a hobby doesn't explain why he's been so viciously anti-competition through the years.

I was actually just thinking about the Manomio debacle, where Hyperion sold them the rights to the Commodore kernel they did not actually own, causing them to go under.

It strikes me as odd that anyone would actually go to Hyperion for such rights, since they make no claims of Commodore, chicken-lips or C64 IP in any way, nor have they been associated with it except via the very old Commodore-Amiga connection. Hype are also desperately short of networking contacts, seeing they're about as popular as a leper with explosive diarrhoea in an intensive care ward.

One source of this could have been Jens, since iComp are practically the only company still in speaking terms with Hyperion. If Jens himself has bought Commodore rights from Hyperion too, he'd be in very deep doo-doo.

> Hyperion sold them the rights

I think they rather licensed the rights to them or sold them a license ;-)

> iComp are practically the only company still in speaking terms with Hyperion.

Even if true, the Manomio incident happened as long as 8 years ago.

> If Jens himself has bought Commodore rights from Hyperion too,
> he'd be in very deep doo-doo.

That's why he licensed from another company.

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Doesn't matter whether they licensed it, sold it, rented it, prostituted it or wrapped it around their penis and conceived children with it. It wasn't theirs. Please stick to the point.

Quote:

And?


[ Edited by KennyR 19.03.2019 - 20:37 ]

> Doesn't matter whether they licensed it, sold it, rented it, prostituted it or wrapped it [...]

I'm with number6 here.

> Please stick to the point.

Please at least *try* to stick to the truth, even if it's hard sometimes.

>>> iComp are practically the only company still in speaking terms with Hyperion.

>> Even if true, the Manomio incident happened as long as 8 years ago.

> And?

What is the case now wasn't necessarily the case back then, obviously.

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If I can give you a tip, it's not to fussily nitpick everything people say, and just go with the actual point. You're infamous for it, when you do it a lot nobody reads it, and it often drives the conversation completely off track for no good reason.

Your sole contribution to this conversation was pointing out who IComp got the Commodore licence from. Thanks for that, but everything else you wrote was useless verbiage. Someone had actually predicted it on IRC when I wrote "bought" (of which I still give zero shits about the distinction, tbh), and said I should change it before you got wind - but I said, nah, not even Andreas could be that uselessly pedantic. Thanks for disappointing me.

[ Edited by KennyR 19.03.2019 - 21:08 ]

> If I can give you a tip [...]

Please spare me the patronizing.

> when you do it a lot nobody reads it

Then just don't, easy :-)

> Your sole contribution to this conversation was pointing out who IComp got the
> Commodore licence from. [...] everything else you wrote was useless verbiage.

I also pointed out that I don't deem it more likely that it was iComp who put Manomio in contact with Hyperion than that it was anybody else or nobody in particular at all, as today's perceived isolation of Hyperion wasn't there 8 years ago (or was it even more like 9 years ago?).

> Someone had actually predicted it on IRC when I wrote "bought" [...],
> and said I should change it

You should listen to those who know better :-)

> Thanks for disappointing me.

You're welcome. Seems I'm not that predictable ;-)

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Slow day and just trying to clarify some history here.
As you know from my prior details posted about Manomio and IAmiga, this was about Amiga perceived rights.

In reviewing this thread, however, I keep seeing the references to the Commodore kernel as being central to the dispute.

Do you have any information/link to support this?

I've seen such an allegation on another site, but also with no source. Upon contact, this poster also had no recollection of where this information might have come from.

I'm only talking about the Hyperion connection obviously. Manomio's issues with the app store and anything about their demise is a different topic..

If you know anything about this, I'd appreciate being filled in for sake of history. Thanks.

#6