maybe a powerful peg next to the x86box will do the job.
with the same peripherals attached, the peg should be much better.
that would proove native power and people can see that ppc is better than x86
for software to use, i would say superbundle is a very good start. add knights and merchants. the betas of burnit and papyrus.
then only spreadsheet and database software is missing, maybe yam is an option too, to show mailing capabilities.

[ Edited by GMKai on 2004/7/20 17:59 ]

Ok, what exactly this means? For what kind of audience this is?

>If people get a chance to try MOS and like it they may then want the real
>thing!

I doubt that very much. If people see that the OS is running on their
hardware that is 90% cheaper and 100% faster than the 'real thing'(tm)
then they will just wait until their hardware gets faster so that they can
use it at better speed and won't buy any Pegasos hardware.

Quote:

The thing is to try and keep the responsiveness even when emulated, this may not be as difficult as you might think as responsiveness is more to do with OS design than raw CPU speed.

Take a look at the OS4 video, big chunks of the OS are emulated, their emulator is not very mature and it's running on lower performance hardware with CPU intensive HD drivers. Despite this the responsive is still surprisingly good.

You won't want to do any major computations (at least until there is a decent JIT) but it sould show the potential of MorphOS.

Don't go by OS X, it has a very complex graphics system which will be incridibly difficult to emulate at good speed even on a high end machine.

--

Does this deal include the SuperBundle?
An entire OS with a bunch of software at a reasonable price could be interesting...

Minator

I run OSX Panther quite nicely on my Peg2 g4

magnetic

Quote:

Software is a dead industry. Stone dead. Only the bigger companies or the bundlers make money out of it these days. Nobody buys the stuff any more, they just download it from Peer to Peer software. Pegasos is what should be making the money, not MOS. And how exactly do you see Pegasos when all its software will run on PCs?

And MOS in its current state is a shared memory address OS - you know, the ones that died in the 80s and that nobody can put to serious use any more. I can't see it being marketworthy to non-Amiga-interested third parties.

Kenny

If that is your perspective then the current Realistic market for Pegasos is LInux.

magnetic

Quote:

No, this non MP OS is quite well suited for embedded applications. MOS in it's current state has the abilies to power (here the myth word comes again) stbs. Maybe other embedded applications as well. There is enough room for a non MP OS but only within the embedded market.
To bring MOS to a broad desktop market we need (whoa! here comes the 2nd myth word!) the QBox i.e. MP.

Better build a cheap ibm405 (or other chip) design to show of MOS on a low end hw. There are also other options (BBRV, I mailed you some days ago).

>I think you guys dont understand the real marketplace. In order to get a new Operating System such as MorphOS out there these are the kind of things that need to be done.
>If people get a chance to try MOS and like it they may then want the real thing!

But please consider:

YOU CAN ONLY MAKE A FIRST IMPRESSION ONCE!

@magnetic

That's the idea, yup. MorphOS is totally unavailable to software and hardware developers unless they buy a Pegasos. Considering "evaluation Pegasos" would cost upwards of $1000 prebuilt and configured, that's a little pricey just to find out MorphOS isn't suitable for a company, or even a high-priced first step for an OS!

By running it under emulation on Windows, Linux, Mac or booted like Amithlon, or myriad other ways, on myriad other hardware, we expose interested developers to the operating system at significantly lower cost than anyone else. It's not so much about awareness as accessibility. There may come a point where everyone knows what MorphOS (beyond readers of PC Magazine and the Amiga Community :) - but if it costs them so much money to even test drive it, they won't pay it much attention.

Kenny, MorphOS will still run on all bPlan hardware that is relevant, and maybe in the future some non-bPlan hardware. You can develop for a real PowerPC all you like, but if people with a PC can see your software and use it, it will only serve to sell more bPlan hardware in the long term.

This isn't some "whole new direction". This is additional :)

Neko

>Considering "evaluation Pegasos" would cost upwards of $1000 prebuilt
>and configured, that's a little pricey just to find out MorphOS isn't suitable
>for a company

That might be true for shareware developers but is not true for companies.

If a company wants to develop for MorphOS then it is because they want
to make money. The first thing they look at is not the price of a possible
development machine but the size of the market.

Also a evaluation Pegasos G3 development machine does not cost more
than 500eur.

@ Zylesea:

It's not the IBM PPC405 anymore, but the AMCC PPC405. See http://www.amcc.com/powerpc/

What I meant was not the chip part number itself. If it's ibm or
amcc is not too important. Well in fact my intention is not a pure
405, but some other chippie based on that core. The 405 is just a
damn good core for embeded applications and fast enough to acommondate a good MOS System. IIRC the
~250 Mhz 405 core does about 350 MIPS that's about the speed of a
Cyberstorm PPC 233. Not too bad for embedded
things...

I'm not so sure I like the idea of MorphOS running in any form on an X86 system. I like the PPC platform, and thats why I use MOS and the Pegasos as well as Macs and OsX. If this is safe and will keep the OS on the PPC platform and away from X86 I can see it helping us, but if it runs well and people see no need to run it on a real Pegasos I say look out!

UAE has become better then a real Amiga if you add a Catweasel flipper card to it. I tried this at a friends and he can boot real Amiga games from floppy and they play perfectly. I would hate to see PearPC get this advanced and people say screw the Pegasos when I can get a $200 PC that runs MorphOS fine.

yes i never want to see MOS go x86 even the emulation thing scares me, i would never try to impress anyone running it from emulation i would show it off on a peg.

what i would like to se is a linux distro designed for teh pegasos that the sole funtion is to run mac on linux it jsut boots up and statrs MOL no kde no gnome nothing special jsut mos osx on linux or os9, any one agree?

Best thing about Morphos is it's smooth
fast and friendly feel. This may be lost
in emulation. Show ANRadio, Pagestream,
ProStationAudio, and put a nice babe
on the background/wallpaper pic.;)

Druideck

Quote:

I have to agree here.

Example: We are trying to port Mozilla to AmigaOS. If we ever succeed,
we most likely will have a 3.x Version, as developing and testing is
easierst for that (crosscompilers and UAE etc.). If we have sth. like
UAE (PearPC, whatever) with MorphOS, testing software will be much easier.
And a native Version for MorphOS, too. IF we ever succeed ;).

BBRV!! Yuuhuuu!!
And so!? We all here are wayting for your answers. Let us know. Be sintetic and precise:
1 - What this society will sell?
2 - And why do you think it will go a good thing. Before answering this reflect an all things sayed here by competent users and developers..

HELLLOOOOOO????


Are you guys daft? Did you not read the posts from Neko and myself? Please re-read the whole thread and THINK before you post.

Its about expanding into markets. Obviously, its in Genesi's interest to sell pegasos machines so why is everyone worried about getting it to the X86 crowd? HOW THE HELL WILL PEOPLE MIGRATE FROM X86 TO PPC? Well, A cool new OS to run may help!

In addition 90% of the market is x86 based if we get MOS running somehow on it we get exposure!

Now do you see? (sigh)

magentic

>MorphOS is totally unavailable to software and hardware developers unless they
>buy a Pegasos.

And since there are no Pegasoi available...

>Considering "evaluation Pegasos" would cost upwards of $1000 prebuilt and
>configured, that's a little pricey just to find out

>MorphOS isn't suitable for a company

All of a sudden you speak about $1000 when your boss had $500 in mind?

"We believe we could sell these machines in quantity without a monitor
for $499 retail (OS included) and still make a decent amount of money.
This price could drop in high component volumes."

[ http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=368&page=13&cdir=2 ]

Also... "We can ship in quantity beginning in October 2003."

[ Edited by tarbos on 2004/7/21 17:03 ]

We started the discussion because we wanted feedback from the most valuable resource we have => the users. The discussion is going well. On one side the objective is exposure not necessarily performance. It is true this may have the opposite effect because under emulation MorphOS won't feel the same, but that is to explore. Is there a middle ground?

Today MorphOS only works with the Pegasos, so as step one we could offer 1.5 (when it is done which could be a year away). Alternatively, we could attempt to broaden the potential market beyond the Pegasos, in which case there are many things that could prove attractive to a potential new Pegasos/MorphOS user.

Anyway, the opportunity is now present and as could have shipped "in quantity beginning October 2003" we made a business decision not to. This issue involving MorphOS is the same, as we turned off Pegasos sales to the other than commercial market a few months ago.

tarbos, we still believe we need to hit those kind of price points to be an effective alternative in the market -- that has not changed.

Please keep the discussion going. We appreciate it.

R&B

Quote:
Sorry, I do not understand this: Release MOS 1.5 in a not too distant future or watch the train going elsewhere.
The quality and speed of MOS attracts users. Real speed is only obtainable on a real PPC.
Quality of MOS is good but not sufficent yet, it has to improve (you know: the tcp/ip, 3d, better ambient etc.) to attract new users, no matter if they use the native thing or emulated. 1.5 must roll out ASAP.
Thus I guess a MOS 1.4 emulated brings you close to - sorry to say so - nowhere!

@bbrv

we could offer 1.5 (when it is done which could be a year away).

Of course, you are aware of fact, that if it'd take a one more year to release 1.5, you'll probalby lose 80-90% of current MOS users, and 3-rd party developers?

Bucky wrote:

> Today MorphOS only works with the Pegasos, so as step one we could offer 1.5
> (when it is done which could be a year away).

You evil villain, do you know what you are doing?

[Edited because I was told it was too harsh.]


[ Edited by Gelb on 2004/7/22 0:04 ]

> Today MorphOS only works with the Pegasos, so as step one we could
> offer 1.5 (when it is done which could be a year away).

Erm, can you please explain why it would take one more (f**ing) year?
Thx