Tabor
  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    amigakit
    Posts: 37 from 2005/8/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > We are very grateful to Mark (and Frank) for their help with this component.

    Are they allowed to use the code in a future MorphOS release?


    It is my understanding that Mark is very busy with real world work. So A-EON sponsored his time to develop the driver for both OS4 and MorphOS. As part of the agreement he has provided us with the full source code for future development. If our team update the source in due course, we are happy to share the changes back to Mark for the benefit of supporting our X5000 customers, whether they prefer OS4 or MorphOS.

    Quote:

    Well if that isn't a big surprise. There's a level of cooperation you wouldn't have seen a few years ago.


    Actually A-EON Technology Ltd has always been happy to cooperate with users and developers across all Amiga inspired systems. Frank and Mark had a special preview of Tabor and Cyrus prototype boards way back in 2013. Mark has stepped in a few times to help us with firmware upgrades building on the work done by Varisys contractors. So you may be surprised that the Amiga community is a lot more cooperative than some speculation suggests.

    [ Edited by amigakit 10.09.2018 - 10:52 ]
    www.amigakit.com - Amiga store
  • »10.09.18 - 09:45
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 383 from 2008/8/10
    @thread

    Upon returning from vacation Costel posted this retrospective of h/w and thoughts about responsibility and future concerns.
    As it is in German, I always appreciate a correct translation of any items you might think warrant further discussion.

    Source

    further info re:plans

    #6
  • »10.09.18 - 13:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > A-EON sponsored his time to develop the driver for both OS4 and MorphOS.
    > [...] he has provided us with the full source code for future development.
    > If our team update the source in due course, we are happy to share the
    > changes back to Mark

    Nice :-)

    > Frank and Mark had a special preview of Tabor and Cyrus prototype
    > boards way back in 2013.

    Yes, bigfoot told the story about P5020DS and Cyrus 3 years ago here on MorphZone. But wait, they also got Tabor prototypes (for evaluation purposes, I guess)? That's interesting, as nothing will come off of it as it seems (due to the MorphOS Team's expressed aversion against SPE/e500v2).

    > Mark has stepped in a few times to help us with firmware upgrades
    > building on the work done by Varisys contractors.

    I remember some of his comments on the X5000/Cyrus U-Boot from 2 years back. Until now, I wasn't aware of the scope of your cooperation in this.
  • »10.09.18 - 15:33
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1367 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    Well if that isn't a big surprise. There's a level of cooperation you wouldn't have seen a few years ago.

    Very cool.

    If it was possible, it would make me appreciate Bigfoot all the more.


    Bigfoot isn't human, I don't believe it. Has he ever been seen in person? ;-)

    How can we get him working on Amiga NG full time? I guess there just aren't enough of us to afford him giving up his day job, but I wish we could.
  • »10.09.18 - 16:24
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1944 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:

    Bigfoot isn't human, I don't believe it. Has he ever been seen in person? ;-)


    As hard it may be to believe, but light does indeed still escape him !!!



    *guess I really should run now*
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »10.09.18 - 16:38
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4861 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:

    Bigfoot isn't human, I don't believe it. Has he ever been seen in person? ;-)


    As hard it may be to believe, but light does indeed still escape him !!!



    *guess I really should run now*


    Mark? He's all too human.
    And when Aeonkit states that he's really busy, he actually IS damned busy.

    And on top of his full-time work, he still stepped up to create a boatload of support for new video cards for us, and a network driver for both us and the OS4 community.

    I'm glad Aeon let it be known that Mark and Frank were both offered Tabor access, since I've been keeping that quiet for awhile now.

    And apparently the number of MorphOS developers with X5000 boards is continuing to grow.

    Before everything begins to look completely unbalanced, and everyone gets the impression that Mark is the sole developer working on new projects, we all know Jacek and Andre have new projects in the works.

    Frank is still quietly working in the background, and core developers like kiero and cyfm are still very much part of the community.

    Hey, even Ralph is still here, since the last time I sent in a message about a registration inquiry he was the one that responded.

    For a community that legacy fanatics keep writing off as "dead", things seem quite lively.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.09.18 - 17:00
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1944 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:


    Frank .... cyfm



    Now that would be a serious diagnose ;)
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »10.09.18 - 17:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Mark and Frank were both offered Tabor access

    And they even took that offer it seems ;-)
  • »10.09.18 - 17:25
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4861 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:


    Frank .... cyfm



    Now that would be a serious diagnose ;)


    Actually, before Frank steps in to clarify, I can not and do not speak for him.
    Haven't exchanged messages with him in quite awhile.

    Rumblings of his whereabouts are, to me, like the sounds of jungle cats at an indistinct distance.

    And the operations of the development team as a whole are as inscrutable as an Asian mystery religion.

    That being said, I have faith we are headed in the right direction, and that there is a captain at the helm of the ship.

    Do those comments make a diagnosis any easier? ;-)
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.09.18 - 17:27
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4861 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Mark and Frank were both offered Tabor access

    And they even took that offer it seems ;-)


    Took, examined, decided to "step over it", who knows.

    What we can count on, is our developers listen to us, and we said a long time ago that the core used in the P1022 wasn't desirable.

    They call the shots, but I trust their decisions.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.09.18 - 17:31
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 1944 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:


    Frank .... cyfm



    Now that would be a serious diagnose ;)


    Actually, before Frank steps in to clarify,


    It might be that there is a Frank on the team so silent that not only I completely forgot about him no the team also left him out of the "about MorphOS window".

    Or it might be that your not aware what the fm in cyfm stands for.


    I'll take door 2.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »10.09.18 - 17:37
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4861 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Oh...man Frank was right, I'm an f'ing idiot.

    OK, and I HAVE been in touch with him.

    Thanks grandpa.

    In any case, the three I associate with video/2D/3D development and support all are on a similar page.

    And since graphics is at the core of any Amiga related OS, as Frank would know from his days working on the CyberGraphics drivers...

    Hey, like I said before, like a religious fanatic I'll just step back and suggest that the future is in more capable hands than my own.

    Edit - Just knowing Frank and Ralph are still actively involved is very encouraging.

    And I think with that, I better bough out too.

    Look I find a peek around the curtain to find the "Oz" is there and that he's just a man encouraging.

    [ Edited by Jim 10.09.2018 - 13:57 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.09.18 - 17:47
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 383 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    And while he was busy speaking other developers were apparently delivering the goods for the ethernet drivers for Tabor (Rene' Olsen) and X5000 .


    I think this thread makes it clear who was doing the work as well:
    Drivers for the internal network chip? (X5000)

    #6


    To be clear, the above link refers to the so-called Hyperion driver that Costel is now writing about.
    Not to be confused with the work of Rene or Mark and Frank.

    #6
  • »10.09.18 - 17:53
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 683 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    "Don't buy that, wait for our version."

    Hyperion never change.
  • »10.09.18 - 17:59
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4861 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    And while he was busy speaking other developers were apparently delivering the goods for the ethernet drivers for Tabor (Rene' Olsen) and X5000 .


    I think this thread makes it clear who was doing the work as well:
    Drivers for the internal network chip? (X5000)

    #6


    To be clear, the above link refers to the so-called Hyperion driver that Costel is now writing about.
    Not to be confused with the work of Rene or Mark and Frank.

    #6




    You mean the driver Costel has never finished because he thinks Aeon needs to provide him more technical information?
    Yeah, THAT I wasn't mistaken on.
    And Spectre660 already made sure I was aware of Rene's work.

    The question is, how is Costel's work "better", if he can't gather the info he needs himself?
    Even I have access to NXP technical support (and have had a relationship with Freescale and Motorola before them).
    Its not hard to get technical info from the Soc vendor.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.09.18 - 18:29
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Spectre660
    Posts: 221 from 2015/6/30
    @Jim

    It is not Costel's work.
    He states that Hyperion are using an outside developer as well.
    His assessment of the two drivers is based on how/if they handle getting the correct MAC address .
    Of course if the X5000 production boards have a "Thing" with the MAC addresses then his basis for the assessment could be incorrect. No reason to go to war. At some point both driver versions may be available to X5000 users .


    [ Edited by Spectre660 10.09.2018 - 16:11 ]
  • »10.09.18 - 19:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > What we can count on, is our developers listen to us, and we said a
    > long time ago that the core used in the P1022 wasn't desirable.

    I'm not sure they listened to us. It's absolutely plausible they came to the same conclusion completely on their own :-)
  • »10.09.18 - 20:29
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4861 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Spectre660 wrote:
    @Jim

    It is not Costel's work.
    He states that Hyperion are using an outside developer as well.
    His assessment of the two drivers is based on how/if they handle getting the correct MAC address .
    Of course if the X5000 production boards have a "Thing" with the MAC addresses then his basis for the assessment could be incorrect. No reason to go to war. At some point both driver versions may be available to X5000 users .



    Yeah, its not been an issue I really want to wade in on as the functionality can be provided by a card.
    But now with issues using some NIC cards, the availability of a driver for the on-board component is very useful.

    I should avoid making provocative statements.

    We have the driver we need for our community.

    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > What we can count on, is our developers listen to us, and we said a
    > long time ago that the core used in the P1022 wasn't desirable.

    I'm not sure they listened to us. It's absolutely plausible they came to the same conclusion completely on their own :-)


    OK...my hubris was on display there.
    A bit like assuming a connection because the Amiga community and my own endeavors started with the same processor family (or cpu vendor).


    [ Edited by Jim 11.09.2018 - 00:40 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »10.09.18 - 20:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > You mean the driver Costel has never finished because he thinks Aeon
    > needs to provide him more technical information?

    I can't remember such statement by Costel. Do you have a link?

    > how is Costel's work "better", if he can't gather the info he needs himself?

    It surely can't be better if it isn't finished and he decided to stop any work on it.
  • »10.09.18 - 20:56
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 383 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > You mean the driver Costel has never finished because he thinks Aeon
    > needs to provide him more technical information?

    I can't remember such statement by Costel. Do you have a link?

    > how is Costel's work "better", if he can't gather the info he needs himself?

    It surely can't be better if it isn't finished and he decided to stop any work on it.


    My post #113 this thread. I believe the contents of those 2 posts spawned the resulting dialog on AW as well.

    Source

    #6
  • »10.09.18 - 21:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> You mean the driver Costel has never finished because he thinks Aeon
    >>> needs to provide him more technical information?

    >> I can't remember such statement by Costel. Do you have a link?

    > My post #113 this thread.

    I followed the links therein but can't find any statement by Costel to the effect that he didn't finish his Ethernet driver(s) "because he thinks Aeon needs to provide him more technical information". Maybe you can quote the part?
  • »10.09.18 - 21:32
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 383 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> You mean the driver Costel has never finished because he thinks Aeon
    >>> needs to provide him more technical information?

    >> I can't remember such statement by Costel. Do you have a link?

    > My post #113 this thread.

    I followed the links therein but can't find any statement by Costel to the effect that he didn't finish his Ethernet driver(s) "because he thinks Aeon needs to provide him more technical information". Maybe you can quote the part?



    Quote:

    A few small things are still to be done and a hardware disagreement in the interrupts of A-EON to clarify.


    The link above to cgutjahr's post certainly applies to this, but I trust your translation over my google translation to english above.

    paragraph beginning with "The tabor"

    #6
  • »10.09.18 - 21:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10681 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>>>> You mean the driver Costel has never finished because he thinks Aeon
    >>>>> needs to provide him more technical information?

    >>>> I can't remember such statement by Costel. Do you have a link?

    >>> My post #113 this thread.

    >> I followed the links therein but can't find any statement by Costel to the effect
    >> that he didn't finish his Ethernet driver(s) "because he thinks Aeon needs to
    >> provide him more technical information". Maybe you can quote the part?

    Quote:

    A few small things are still to be done and a hardware disagreement in the interrupts of A-EON to clarify.


    Nothing indicates that this interrupt issue is referring to any Ethernet driver, and even if it was, this interrupt issue can't be the reason Costel didn't finish his own P1022 Ethernet driver as Costel's driver has been abandoned by him and isn't supposed to be part of OS4 anyway, but the driver by another author will be:

    Quote:

    I do not do the drivers for X5000 and Tabor (anymore). Developing a THIRD pair of drivers would not make sense at all, so we tucked in the developer of the - in our opinion - better of the externally developed drivers.


    So if any Ethernet driver for Tabor is affected by said interrupt issue and needs further information by A-Eon, it cannot be Costel's driver.
  • »10.09.18 - 22:00
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 683 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    So my take on this sorry affair hasn't changed since a year and a half ago. What I'm guessing happened, beginning quite some time ago:

    1) 2006: Most OS4 developers leave after the court settlement and Hyperion's debts mount and its dirty laundry is first aired
    2) Much later: A-Eon want uboot and OS4 ported to X1000
    3) Hyperion either don't want to or can't do this (i.e. have lost the developers who worked on relevant parts or even own them)
    4) A-Eon bodge OS4 onto X1000 without Hyperion's help, hence terrible loading times
    5) X1000 flops harder than a sealion falling off the Empire State Building, mainly due to costing more than a small 2nd hand family car
    6) Cheaper X5000 comes along and A-Eon find themselves in same situation
    7) Network drivers require information from uboot (at least MAC address, apparently) so A-Eon can't continue
    8) Hyperion pretend they can continue but can't either, and their own driver halts and/or they hold it back so they can (barely) justify a paid update to OS4 as soon as they can start trading again
    9) A-Eon won't wait so contact Olsen1 and Olsen2 to do working drivers by using a different method to extract MAC address
    10) Four copies of the same driver, and everyone is having great fun.

    Am I close?
  • »10.09.18 - 23:41
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