ARM for the future?
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Applied Micro (aka AMCC - the company that does the CPUs in the Sam 440 and 460) have announced a new processor.

    You were probably not expecting this :-D
  • »27.10.11 - 20:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2028 from 2003/6/4
    Though not directly relevant for the MorphOS world this is an interesting approach. A basis for rather cheap and energy efficient highly parallel systems - could work out well for Applied Micro.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »27.10.11 - 21:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > You were probably not expecting this :-D

    Absolutely. This comes most unexpected. I'd have never thought someone would supersede nVidia regarding ARM64/ARMv8, and certainly not Applied Micro. And they're not even taking an ARM64 core from ARM Ltd. but implementing their very own core based on ARMv8. Much respect to them.
    I'm now asking myself whether this is what Applied Micro was referring to when they one year ago had a multicore 2.5 GHz 64-bit architecture on their roadmap.

    Edit:

    "Applied Micro has been working with ARM Holdings for the past three years to not only come up with an ARM chip suitable for modern, cloudy servers, but to make sure that Applied Micro is the first out the door with such a 64-bit chip."
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/28/applied_micro_arm_x_gene_server_chip/

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 29.10.2011 - 19:51 ]
  • »28.10.11 - 00:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > There's not much to share yet, but I am working on something - though
    > not at a high pace or with a high priority (yet). I am still open for
    > ideas, know how, a helping hand, whatever, #?.

    Ah okay, I can see that it's about some kind of existing "business proposal".
  • »28.10.11 - 03:16
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2028 from 2003/6/4
    On my harddiskthere are several business proposals covering pretty different topics. Some of them rather draft, some others matured and detailed. But they are not generally intended for the public. In early spring I participated my first business plan competition, but haven't won. Well, next time - maybe ;-) .
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »28.10.11 - 09:59
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > In early spring I participated my first business plan competition, but haven't won.

    It wasn't this one, was it? ;-)
  • »28.10.11 - 11:51
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2028 from 2003/6/4
    No :-). It wasn't computer related at all.
    Main prob was it was too much text and too few pictures and easy slogans. I may try another competition soon.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »28.10.11 - 13:58
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Wow!
    http://investor.appliedmicro.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=78121&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1622781&highlight=

    Hard to believe they have the resources to create this.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »28.10.11 - 23:52
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > http://investor.appliedmicro.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=78121&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1622781&highlight=

    Minator beat you by one day ;-)
  • »29.10.11 - 00:04
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Since they are aimming at the server market, this looks to be an expensive processor.

    That would negate one of the primary advantages of ARM.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »29.10.11 - 16:45
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    Since they are aimming at the server market, this looks to be an expensive processor.

    That would negate one of the primary advantages of ARM.


    I doubt that very much, low price is a big weapon they can use against against Intel.
  • »29.10.11 - 20:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Hard to believe they have the resources to create this.

    They even talk about future chips incorporating both X-Gene and PowerPC core(s):

    "[...] we were one of the first companies to release a Power PC and ARM on the same die about three years ago, and that's doing really well today, so you'll start to see a very interesting mix of products as we go forward. Where you'll start to see all of our best-at-breed Power PC technology start to blend with versions of pieces of X-Gene for various applications. That will be a very, very, very important intersection point, because [...] we want to maximize the investments that we are making in all of these areas, right, so if we are going to build the world's first world class server class 64-bit core, we want to make sure that we can use that core in some form or fashion going forward along with a Power PC per our customers' request so that they can have the ability to run all their legacy code and run their new code on the ARM."
    http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/711065/000119312511300076/d253150dex992.htm

    Btw, does anybody know which Applied Micro chip had "a Power PC and ARM on the same die about three years ago"? I'm well aware of the fact that at the heart of PacketPro's SLIMpro subsystem is a 250 MHz ARM Cortex-M3 core, but the PacketPro family was only announced (not even released) in September 2010, which hardly qualifies as "three years ago".
  • »09.11.11 - 00:52
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Microsoft and nVidia already have
    > something ARM-based cooking for the new Xbox though.

    A week ago rumours to that effect (sans the "nVidia" part) have started to circulate:

    "With a heady mix of rumors, tips and speculation, I am now stating that Xbox codename "loop" (the erstwhile XboxTV) will indeed debut a modified Win9 core. It will use a Zune HD-like hardware platform--a "main" processor with multiple dedicated assistive cores for graphics, AI, physics, sound, networking, encryption and sensors. It will be custom designed by Microsoft and two partners based on the ARM architecture. It will be cheaper than the 360, further enabling Kinect adoption. And it will be far smaller than the 360."
    http://msnerd.tumblr.com/post/12233928364/clarity
  • »10.11.11 - 01:52
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2708 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    "With a heady mix of rumors, tips and speculation, I am now stating that Xbox codename “loop” (the erstwhile XboxTV) will indeed debut a modified Win9 core. It will use a Zune HD-like hardware platform—a “main” processor with multiple dedicated assistive cores for graphics, AI, physics, sound, networking, encryption and sensors. It will be custom designed by Microsoft and two partners based on the ARM architecture. It will be cheaper than the 360, further enabling Kinect adoption. And it will be far smaller than the 360."
    http://msnerd.tumblr.com/post/12233928364/clarity


    Well, it makes perfect sense, it fits well within all the communicated and/or rumored timetables, and goes totally in line with everything they have done and announced this far, so I think it's a very credible rumor!

    (BTW: "And who knows what technology future X-Box systems will use under the hood? ;-)")

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »10.11.11 - 10:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    Btw, does anybody know which Applied Micro chip had "a Power PC and ARM on the same die about three years ago"? I'm well aware of the fact that at the heart of PacketPro's SLIMpro subsystem is a 250 MHz ARM Cortex-M3 core, but the PacketPro family was only announced (not even released) in September 2010, which hardly qualifies as "three years ago".


    IIRC There was an EEtimes article that said the predecessor had used an ARM part to do much the same thing but they never publicly announced it.
  • »11.11.11 - 20:32
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > IIRC There was an EEtimes article that said the predecessor had used an
    > ARM part to do much the same thing but they never publicly announced it.

    Actually, I linked to that article (on the Keelback) in the very posting you just replied to (klick on "SLIMpro subsystem"). The statement therein you obviously refer to is this:

    "The Keelback device also usesan ARM core in the SLIMpro subsystem, the first time the company has revealed it has used ARM core although it now confirms the first of the PacketPro family, the Mamba device launched last year, was actually its first product featuring SLIMpro with the ARM processor."

    So as you can see we're still at square one, because Mamba is the initial PacketPro chip I've been talking about in my previous posting and which was introduced less than one year ago in 2010, not "three years ago". So my question which chip with "a Power PC and ARM on the same die" Mr. Gopi talked about remains open unfortunately, unless you were referring to a different EETimes article.
  • »11.11.11 - 20:50
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    So as you can see we're still at square one, because Mamba is the initial PacketPro chip I've been talking about in my previous posting and which was introduced less than one year ago in 2010, not "three years ago". So my question which chip with "a Power PC and ARM on the same die" Mr. Gopi talked about remains open unfortunately, unless you were referring to a different EETimes article.


    Looks like the same article I read - but may be they're not talking about processors?
    ARM also does things like fabric (i.e. bus systems) and I know AppliedMicro have been using and ARM bus for some time.

    --

    BTW if you like more details on 64 bit ARMs...

    see these and read this.
  • »12.11.11 - 03:28
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Looks like the same article I read

    Okay, so we're not any wiser yet.

    > but may be they're not talking about processors?

    They are, which is clear from the context the quoted part is embedded in the original document in.

    > ARM also does things like fabric (i.e. bus systems)

    Yes, AMBA (APB/AHB/AXI).

    > I know AppliedMicro have been using and ARM bus for some time.

    Really? As far as I know they've been using IBM's CoreConnect PLB in their Power Architecture chips, not ARM's AMBA.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=site:apm.com+coreconnect+OR+plb

    So I guess the question is still open either way.
  • »12.11.11 - 04:24
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > What specs? I don't think we have any for this Power Architecture
    > chip yet, except that it has more than one core and is manufactured
    > in a rather conservative build process

    Fresh rumours on the Wii U's processor from 4 days ago:

    * quad-core
    * 3 GHz

    http://wiiudaily.com/2011/12/wii-u-has-quad-core-3ghz-cpu-768-mb-of-ram/
  • »06.12.11 - 22:37
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4957 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    http://wiiudaily.com/2011/12/wii-u-has-quad-core-3ghz-cpu-768-mb-of-ram/

    Gee, that would make a nice...computer.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »06.12.11 - 23:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Microsoft and nVidia already have
    >>> something ARM-based cooking for the new Xbox though.

    >> A week ago rumours to that effect (sans the "nVidia" part) have started
    >> to circulate: [...]
    >> http://msnerd.tumblr.com/post/12233928364/clarity

    > Well, it makes perfect sense, it fits well within all the communicated and/or
    > rumored timetables, and goes totally in line with everything they have done
    > and announced this far, so I think it's a very credible rumor!

    There're also rumours to the opposite effect, not mentioning ARM at all:

    "the chip itself is a little bit grey in areas. [...] IBM is also involved, so eDRAM is very likely, something our sources are all confirming. This means the CPU is very likely to be a PowerPC of one sort or other too. Then again, [...] there are strong and credible rumors of it being an AMD x86 core ala Trinity. In any case more SemiAccurate moles are still saying PowerPC, that architecture makes much more sense here."
    http://semiaccurate.com/2011/12/05/exclusive-xbox-next-chip-just-taped-out/
  • »07.12.11 - 01:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > 2.5 GHz Krait will indeed not come until APQ8064 scheduled for 2012 at earliest

    APQ8064 got degraded to 1.7 GHz, which means 2.5 GHz Krait will have to wait until APQ8094 in second half of 2013.

    https://developer.qualcomm.com/discover/chipsets-and-modems/snapdragon
    http://vr-zone.com/articles/qualcomm-reveals-future-plans-we-give-you-the-details/13581.html
  • »13.12.11 - 00:01
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Correction:

    >> I know AppliedMicro have been using and ARM bus for some time.

    > Really? As far as I know they've been using IBM's CoreConnect PLB
    > in their Power Architecture chips, not ARM's AMBA.

    Sorry, I was wrong. Actually, they've been using a combination of PLB and AMBA (AHB, APB) in their chips, with bridges in between.

    http://www.acaltechnology.com/_files/franchise/AppliedMicro/catalogues/Acal_BFi_AppliedMicro_Shortform_(LowRes).pdf
    http://www.acaltechnology.com/_files/franchise/AppliedMicro/datasheets/APM86290_PB_20110103_v1_05.pdf
    http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5326/CatalinaAPM86491.png

    According to the first one of those PDF files, the PPC460EX seems to have been Applied Micro's first chip to implement AMBA buses.
  • »11.01.12 - 03:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > Marvell Sheeva PJ4: 2.4

    Marvell has released the new Sheeva PJ4B core delivering 2.6 DMIPS per MHz and thus superseding ARM's Cortex-A9 core.

    http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/armada-1500/assets/Marvell-ARMADA-1500-Product-Brief.pdf
    (in this SoC interestingly coupled with ARM Ltd's NEON SIMD in addition to Marvell's usual WMMX SIMD)

    So this is the new revised list:

    ARM Cortex-A7: 1.9
    ARM Cortex-A8: 2.0
    Qualcomm Scorpion: 2.1
    Marvell Sheeva PJ4: 2.4
    ARM Cortex-A9: 2.5
    Marvell Sheeva PJ4B: 2.6
    Qualcomm Krait: 3.3
    ARM Cortex-A15: 3.5
  • »14.01.12 - 01:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11570 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > They even talk about future chips incorporating both X-Gene and PowerPC core(s): [...]

    More on that:

    "our view is to continue to take share from Freescale and IBM with our investments that we made in power architecture and then we start to combine power architecture and ARM for the embedded space"
    http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/711065/000119312512041267/d294817dex992.htm
  • »06.02.12 - 23:08
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