Powermac supported devices
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    As there are a few inconsistencies between the expected (pre-release) hardware support information and actual (release) hardware support information, I recommend visiting the MorphOS-team website for correct information.

    This thread served its purpose - it was intended to get information together prior to release: to allow potential users to make informed choices based on information available at the time, and to take the pressure off developers being asked for the same information ad nauseum.

    Now that MorphOS 2,6 has been released, the proper place to find such information is MorphOS-Team website.

    The original posting follows:

    Quote:

    In anticipation of the (hopefully) upcoming MorphOS 2,6 release (introducing "Power Mac G4" support), this thread is intended to summarise the answers given with regard to supported hardware, and hopefully will act as a useful guide and resource for those wishing to purchase a PowerMac.

    The onboard devices/ports/expansions differ between models, as does (to a small degree) the support under MorphOS.

    The term "Power Mac G4" includes a broad variety of Apple Mac models released between 1999 and 2003.
    As per Apple documentation [1], [2] (and Everymac [17] for the Model Identifiers) these are as follows:

    PowerMac1,2 "Power Mac G4 (PCI Graphics)"
    PowerMac3,1 "Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics)"
    PowerMac3,3 "Power Mac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet)"
    PowerMac3,4 "Power Mac G4 (Digital Audio)"
    PowerMac3,5 "Power Mac G4 (Quicksilver)" & "Power Mac G4 (Quicksilver 2002)"
    PowerMac3,6 "Power Mac G4 (MDD)" & "Power Mac G4 (FW800)" & "Power Mac G4 (MDD 2003)"
    PowerMac5,1 "Power Mac G4 (Cube)"

    It appears that there never was a PowerMac3,2. Awww. :cry:

    Apple also produced the X-Serve G4 range, however they're not officially "Power Mac G4" computers, have no dedicated graphics port, and aren't that common by comparison. Also, their model Identifiers are RackMac1.x.

    On which models will MorphOS run?

    Rumour [16] has it that all "all AGP based Power Mac G4 models" will be supported.
    This is supported by developer comments [18], that "there are no plans to support models other than [...] 3,1 - 3,6".

    Whilst not conclusive, it does strongly suggest that all PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,6 models will be supported. If you need a more definite answer, you'll just have to wait for the release I guess :-)

    It seems that there are no plans to support other G4 models [18], which rules out the "Power Mac G4 (PCI Graphics)" and the "Power Mac G4 (Cube)".

    This leaves a list of supported models as:

    PowerMac3,1 "Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics)"
    PowerMac3,3 "Power Mac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet)"
    PowerMac3,4 "Power Mac G4 (Digital Audio)"
    PowerMac3,5 "Power Mac G4 (Quicksilver)" & "Power Mac G4 (Quicksilver 2002)"
    PowerMac3,6 "Power Mac G4 (MDD)" & "Power Mac G4 (FW800)" & "Power Mac G4 (MDD 2003)"

    You will need to ensure that the processor card is also supported, as not all are. (See section on supported processor cards.)

    For the sake of brevity, I've not differentiated between models with different processor speeds or graphic cards - the list is just too long, and these things are ultimately upgradeable/interchangeable.
    Various other names (Blue-and-white, Sawtooth, Graphite, etc) also seem to be used intermittently, interchangeably, with no clear definition, or just plain wrongly (at least in Ebay listings), so I would be careful about trusting them as an accurate descriptor.

    In this summary, I've (eventually) stuck to using the 'Model Identifiers' (PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,6).

    Grey Areas

    According to Everymac [17], the 'Power Mac 3.x' range also included the 'Mac Server G4'.

    Whilst Evermac states:

    Quote:

    For all practical purposes, all models in the Mac Server G4 series are identical to another model in the Power Macintosh G4 series, but the server models often shipped with larger or faster hard drives and more RAM, and always with pre-installed server software.

    ...I've not looked any further into this, so it may be something to be aware of when Mac hunting, at least until someone tries it and reports they are definitely working.

    Processor boards

    All supported models:
    --Processor boards with MPC7450 CPUs will be supported*; [19]
    --Processor boards with MPC7400/7410 CPUs will be supported*; [20]
    --Single processor boards supported under MorphOS;
    --Dual processor boards supported under MorphOS; [13]
    ----N.B. Only 1 processor will be in use on DP models under MorphOS; [12]
    --Currently unknown whether 3rd party CPU upgrades will be supported (eg Sonnet, Newer Tech).
    --2nd processor may be used at some future time, but not for initial release. [12], [14]

    * It is thought that processor boards clocked at lower speeds (<600MHz as a rule of thumb) may use MPC7400/7410 processors, whereas those clocked higher may use MPC7450. If in doubt, and this matters to you, check.
    It has been confirmed that processor boards featuring MPC7400/7410 processors will also be supported. [20]

    Graphics slot

    PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,5:
    --AGP 2x slot:
    ----66MHz, 32-bit, 3.3V;
    ----Supports 1x, 2x cards (and 4x which operate at 2x). [3], [4], [5], [6]

    PowerMac3,6:
    --AGP 4x slot:
    ----66MHz, 1.5V cards supported;
    ----Supports 4x cards only. [7], [8]

    All supported models:
    --All AGP slots are supported under MorphOS
    --Graphics card must be flashed with mac-compatible firmware. [10]

    Card expansion slots

    PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,3:
    --3 x PCI slots:
    ----Will fit 6.88" and 12.283" cards;
    ----33MHz, 64-bit;
    ------Supports 32-bit and/or 64-bit cards;
    ------Supports 3.3V and/or 5V. [3], [4]

    PowerMac3,4 - PowerMac3,6:
    --4 x PCI slots
    ----Will fit 6.88" and 12.283" cards;
    ----33MHz, 64-bit
    ------Supports 32-bit and/or 64-bit cards;
    ------Supports 3.3V and/or 5V. [5], [6], [7], [8]

    All supported models:
    --All PCI slots are supported under MorphOS, although:
    ----Any card with its own BIOS (eg SCSI Raid) must be Mac-compatible in order to be available at boot time; [10], [11]
    ----Cards with BIOS which is not Mac-compatible (eg SCSI?), etc should be useable under MorphOS, however will not be available until after MorphOS has loaded. [11]

    Memory banks

    PowerMac3,1:
    --4 x DIMM banks;
    --Supports PC100 SDRAM (Max 1.5GB);
    ----3.3V, 168-pin, non-ECC, non-parity, unbuffered, non-registered;
    ----Maximum of 16 devices (ie may be double-sided, but no more than 16 chips in total) per DIMM. [3]

    PowerMac3,3:
    --4 x DIMM banks;
    --Supports PC100 SDRAM (Max 1.5GB);
    ----3.3V, 168-pin, unbuffered, non-registered (does not mention non-ECC or non-parity);
    ----Maximum of 16 devices (ie may be double-sided, but no more than 16 chips in total) per DIMM. [4]

    PowerMac3,4 - PowerMac3,5:
    --3 x DIMM banks;
    --Supports PC133 SDRAM (Max 1.5GB);
    ----3.3V, 168-pin, unbuffered, non-registered (does not mention non-ECC or non-parity);
    ----Maximum of 16 devices (ie may be double-sided, but no more than 16 chips in total) per DIMM. [5], [6]

    PowerMac3,6:
    --4 x DIMM banks;
    --Supports PC2100 for 133MHz bus models, PC2700 for 167MHz bus models (Max 2GB);
    ----2.5V, 184-pin DDR, non-ECC, non-parity, unbuffered, non-registered;
    ----Maximum of 16 devices (ie may be double-sided, but no more than 16 chips in total) per DIMM. [7], [8]

    All supported models:
    --All memory banks supported under MorphOS;
    --Maximum of 1.5GB available to MorphOS; [12]
    --All memory shared between both processors for DP models. [8], [12]
    --Anecdotally, PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,3 may also support 2GB ram. [15]
    --Anecdotally, all models require memory to be "low density". [15]
    (If you can find an agreed, useful definition for "low density", please post a link)

    Onboard PATA

    PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,5:
    --1 x ATA3 (EIDE) port;
    --1 x ATA5 (ATA66) port; [12]

    PowerMac3,6:
    --1 x ATA3 (EIDE) port;
    --1 x ATA5 (ATA66) port;
    --1 x ATA6 (ATA100) port; [12]

    All models:
    --All ATA ports supported under MorphOS. [12]

    Onboard Firewire

    PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,6:
    --2 x FW400 ports; [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]

    "Power Mac G4 (FW800)" only:
    --1 x FW800 ports (in addition to FW400 ports); [8]

    All supported models:
    --All FW ports supported under MorphOS; [10]
    --Usefulness subject to Helois firewire stack development. [10]

    Onboard USB

    PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,5:
    --2 x USB 1.1 ports (rear); [3], [4], [5], [6]

    PowerMac3,6:
    --2 x USB 1.1 ports (rear); [7], [8]
    --Rumoured to work as USB 2.0, as based on NEC uPD720101 chip (at least on on some models). [9]
    ----Possible 'unofficial' onboard USB 2.0 functionality not yet supported under MorphOS;

    All supported models:
    --All USB 1.1 Ports Supported. [13]

    Onboard Audio

    PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,3:
    --1 x Audio In;
    --1 x Audio Out. [3], [4]

    PowerMac3,4 - PowerMac3,5:
    --1 x Audio Out;
    --1 x Speaker Mini-jack (Apple proprietary audio-out port); [5], [6]

    PowerMac3,6:
    --1 x Audio In;
    --1 x Audio Out;
    --1 x Speaker Mini-jack (Apple proprietary audio-out port); [7], [8]

    Summary:
    --PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,3:
    ----Audio support on unlikely for first release; [12]
    --PowerMac3,4 - PowerMac3,6:
    ----Audio Out supported;
    ----Audio In not supported in first release;
    ----Software volume control unlikely in first release;
    ----Support for Apple Mini-Jack unknown (and who really cares?). [12]

    Onboard LAN

    PowerMac3,1:
    --1 x 10/100 LAN port. [3]

    PowerMac3,3 - PowerMac3,6:
    --1 x 10/100/1000 port. [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]

    All supported models
    --LAN Port Supported under MorphOS. [12]

    Onboard Airport (/Extreme) slot

    PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,6 (excluding "Power Mac G4 (FW800)"):
    --1 x Airport connector. [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]

    "Power Mac G4 (FW800)"
    --1 x Airport Extreme connector; [8]

    All supported models
    --Airport (/Extreme) slot not supported under MorphOS;
    --No specific plans in place for future support. [10]
    --(imho: appears to simply be another port on the PCI bus, with no bridge, so may 'just work'). [8] (Fig 2.1)

    Internal Bluetooth connector

    PowerMac3,1 - PowerMac3,6 (excluding "Power Mac G4 (FW800)"):
    --Not present [1], [2]

    "Power Mac G4 (FW800)"
    --Internal connector; [2]

    All supported models
    --No Bluetooth stack available for MorphOS, so chip support is (almost) irrelevant; (No reference)
    --(imho appears to be mounted via USB, so BT HID devices may 'just work' as with the Mac-mini (If BT HID devices are supported for accessing firmware)). [8] (Fig 2.1)

    Modem

    All supported models:
    --Modem not supported; [10]
    --No specific plans in place for future support. [10]
    --(Modem differs between models). [1], [2]

    Other useful information:

    MDD/FW800:
    -----Guide to reclocking 133MHz bus to 167MHz bus
    -----Guide to overclocking Dual processor board (also includes info on voltage regulator jumpers)

    Older models:
    -----Guide to overclocking Power Mac Single/Dual processor (100MHz bus) models
    -----Guide to overclocking Power Mac (Quicksilver) Single processor models

    General:
    -----Guide (and software) for reflashing Radeon cards for PPC Mac use

    Useful comparison sites (Thanks to g4QS_redux):
    apple-history
    Everymac
    Mac HW database tool(Windows/MacOS)

    Thanks to all who contributed,



    Rich

    PS Apologies for any inaccuracies, incompleteness, etc.
    PPS Any complaints can be addressed to the usual place. :-P


    References:
    [1] - Apple online documentation "Power Mac G4: How to differentiate between models, Part 1", accessed 25/8/10 from http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3082
    [2] - Apple online documentation "Power Mac G4: How to differentiate between models, Part 1", accessed 25/8/10 from http://support.apple.com/kb/TA25585?viewlocale=en_US
    [3] - Apple Documentation "Setting up your Power Mac G4 (PCI/AGP)", accessed 25/8/10 from here
    [4] - Apple Documentation "Setting up your Power Mac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet)", accessed 25/8/10 from here
    [5] - Apple Documentation "Setting up your Power Mac G4 (Digital Audio)", accessed 25/8/10 from here
    [6] - Apple Documentation "Setting up your Power Mac G4 (Quicksilver)", accessed 25/8/10 from here
    [7] - Apple Documentation "Setting up your Power Mac G4 (MDD)", accessed 25/8/10 from here
    [8] - Apple Documentation "Power Mac G4 (Legacy)", accessed 25/8/10 from here
    [9] - Review Site, This page
    [10] - Morphzone forum, this thread, [https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=7332&sortname=&sortorder=&sortdays=&viewmode=flat&order=0&start=1]here[/url], Jacadcaps (MorphOS developer)
    [11] - Morphzone forum, this thread, [https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=7332&sortname=&sortorder=&sortdays=&viewmode=flat&order=0&start=12]here[/url], Golem (Morphzone moderator)
    [12] - Morphzone forum, this thread, [https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=7332&sortname=&sortorder=&sortdays=&viewmode=flat&order=0&start=18]here[/url], Pega-1 (MorphOS developer)
    [13] - Morphzone forum, Thread, post #1, MorphOS_Team (MorphOS developer(s))
    [14] - Morphzone forum, Thread, page #4-5, Krashan (MorphOS developer)
    [15] - Morphzone forum, this thread, [https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=7332&sortname=&sortorder=&sortdays=&viewmode=flat&order=0&start=29]here[/url], Jim
    [16] - Morphzone forum, Thread, post #223, Andreas_Wolf (rumour-monger :-P)
    [17] - Mac information list, Everymac website, accessed 26/8/10 from here
    [18] - Morphzone forum, this thread, here, Jacadcaps (MorphOS Developer)
    [19] - Morphzone forum, Thread, Post #4, Pega-1 (MorphOS Developer)
    [20] - Morphzone forum, this thread, here, Pega-1 (MorphOS Developer)

    Plus links to external sites.

    ["..hoping that each edit would be the edit home."]

    [Latest edits: error correction re max memory on PowerMac3,1; removed duplicated (incorrect) links; updated comments on supported processor cards; changed ref [19] to point to more relevant post, added further information wrt processor cards]


    [ Edited by boot_wb on 2010/10/16 12:25 ]
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  • »24.08.10 - 11:48
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2538 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    Does the graphics card have to be a mac-specific model to be recognised by OF, or is this initialization superseded once Quark loads anyway? Can PCI graphics cards be used instead?


    Yes, the graphics card has to have a Mac bios. No idea about PCI - if you can get a supported PCI card, it might as well work (it still has to have a Mac bios).

    There are no plans to add PCMCIA support at the moment. I'd think of that as unlikely to happen.

    Firewire only depends on Yomgui.

    Modem is even more unlikely than PCMCIA.
  • »24.08.10 - 12:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11471 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I'm not at all familiar with the motherboard features of the quicksilver models,
    > so if someone could summarise their available features...

    Wikipedia can:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4#Four-slot_models
  • »24.08.10 - 13:53
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:


    jacadcaps wrote:
    Quote:

    Does the graphics card have to be a mac-specific model to be recognised by OF, or is this initialization superseded once Quark loads anyway? Can PCI graphics cards be used instead?


    Yes, the graphics card has to have a Mac bios. No idea about PCI - if you can get a supported PCI card, it might as well work (it still has to have a Mac bios).

    There are no plans to add PCMCIA support at the moment. I'd think of that as unlikely to happen.

    Firewire only depends on Yomgui.

    Modem is even more unlikely than PCMCIA.


    What about other PCI devices? Will they have to be Mac specific or can we use the same cards as the Pegasos?
    I was hoping to be able to use thee Soundblaster Live and SCSI drivers.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »24.08.10 - 14:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11471 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > What about other PCI devices? Will they have to be Mac specific or can
    > we use the same cards as the Pegasos?

    It depends if the cards have a BIOS or not.

    > I was hoping to be able to use thee Soundblaster Live

    You know the answer:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6826&forum=11

    > and SCSI drivers.

    AFAIK, SCSI cards have a BIOS, so you would need one with a PPC Mac compatible BIOS for usage in a PowerMac.
  • »24.08.10 - 15:19
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:


    jacadcaps wrote:
    Quote:

    Does the graphics card have to be a mac-specific model to be recognised by OF, or is this initialization superseded once Quark loads anyway? Can PCI graphics cards be used instead?


    Yes, the graphics card has to have a Mac bios. No idea about PCI - if you can get a supported PCI card, it might as well work (it still has to have a Mac bios).

    There are no plans to add PCMCIA support at the moment. I'd think of that as unlikely to happen.

    Firewire only depends on Yomgui.

    Modem is even more unlikely than PCMCIA.


    Thanks for the info, I'll update the initial post to reflect the answers.

    I'm not trying to hold anyone to specific answers, just accumulating the info so that the same questions will (hopefully) not be asked again and again.
    Or at least if they do continue to be asked, Andreas will know where to point them :-)

    @Andreas

    I was trying to be lazy, in just doing the MDD models, but will update the thread tomorrow with regards asking similar questions about Quicksilver models. It seems correct to keep the information together :-)
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  • »24.08.10 - 17:46
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 494 from 2009/9/8
    @boot_wb

    - Slot Airport is different between FW800 (airport extreme) and MDD (older airport).

    - RAM 2gb is full usable with 1 or 2 CPU G4 in Dual G4 FW800 and MDD

    - RAM in older FW800/MDD (es. Quicksilver ..etc..) are 133 or 100, but It'not DDR.
    DDR is only for FW800 and MDD

    - here to FLASH ATI Radeon graphic card http://themacelite.wikidot.com/ati-flash (if you don't buy "original" Mac).
    No problem here to flash ATI 9200, 9250 and 9800XT/Pro.

    - USB onboard is 1.1 (two ports), for 2.0 use a simple PCI USB card.


    [ Edited by Divinity on 2010/8/24 23:57 ]
  • »24.08.10 - 21:51
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11471 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > RAM in older FW800/MDD (es. Quicksilver ..etc..)

    I take it you mean "older *than* FW800/MDD", else it doesn't make sense because Quicksilver is not an "older FW800/MDD" but older *than* FW800/MDD.

    > are 133 or 100, but It'not DDR. DDR is only for FW800 and MDD

    That's exactly what boot_wb claims. His list is only for FW800 and MDD for now.
  • »24.08.10 - 22:43
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 494 from 2009/9/8
    Quote:


    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > RAM in older FW800/MDD (es. Quicksilver ..etc..)

    I take it you mean "older *than* FW800/MDD", else it doesn't make sense because Quicksilver is not an "older FW800/MDD" but older *than* FW800/MDD.

    > are 133 or 100, but It'not DDR. DDR is only for FW800 and MDD

    That's exactly what boot_wb claims. His list is only for FW800 and MDD for now.


    older than sure :-)

    >---------(PC2100 for 133MHz bus models, PC2700 for 167MHz bus models); [2]

    sorry I have "read" PC2100 for Quicksilver... while It's for MDD/FW800 with 133Mhz bus, It's OK PC2100 for 133MHz bus models, PC2700 for 167MHz bus models in FW800/MDD

    [ Edited by Divinity on 2010/8/25 0:55 ]
  • »24.08.10 - 22:55
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    > I was hoping to be able to use thee Soundblaster Live

    You know the answer:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6826&forum=11
    >

    Having had the reassurance of this once before doesn't explain to me how a card with plug and play functions for a PC that has no drivers for a Mac what so ever is going to work under MorphOS.

    Similar questions, regardless of prior answers, bother me about running other cards that work on the Pegasos but were never designed for Mac compatibility.

    Further, as far as on board BIOS go, my company was building 68K based systems in the 80's the used standard ET4000 based ISA video cards. We weren't bothered by the lack of BIOS support as our drivers didn't use the BIOS.

    In fact, unless hardware variations (register locations, etc.) occur amongst similar cards that use the same components, then the BIOS is relatively unnecessary.

    We only ran into problems with cards that weren't based on the Tseng Labs reference design.

    Frankly, I don't even understand how a Pegasos would uses a PC BIOS. I've heard that there is some use of X86 emulation, but as I've mentioned before it seems unnecessary as hardware can be accessed without BIOS calls.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »24.08.10 - 23:24
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    Golem
    Posts: 766 from 2003/2/28
    From: Denmark
    Quote:


    Jim wrote:
    Having had the reassurance of this once before doesn't explain to me how a card with plug and play functions for a PC that has no drivers for a Mac what so ever is going to work under MorphOS.

    With a driver?

    Quote:

    Frankly, I don't even understand how a Pegasos would uses a PC BIOS. I've heard that there is some use of X86 emulation, but as I've mentioned before it seems unnecessary as hardware can be accessed without BIOS calls.

    For graphics cards it can be useful to have a display up before the OS is loaded, also the radeon driver depends on bios initialization.
  • »24.08.10 - 23:40
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @ Golem

    Thanks for the response. I've been a little confused on the issue since, as I've mentioned, I used to work for a company that teamed PC ISA cards with a 68K motherboard (and ignored the BIOS).

    That why I was concerned that a BIOS would be a requirement for anything other than a video card.

    And I appreciate your response about drivers. That's all I assumed would be necessary for cards without a BIOS. Sure you don't have the benefit of the computer having plug and play capable notification that drivers need to be loaded, but I've set up drivers manually before.

    So, other than video cards, do other cards (like the SCSI cards that work in the Pegasos) have to have an Apple compatible BIOS (or can drivers simply be loaded)?
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »25.08.10 - 00:24
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    Golem
    Posts: 766 from 2003/2/28
    From: Denmark
    The Pegasos firmware supports some Symbios/LSI/NCR SCSI controllers and allows booting from them, on a Mac I guess support for booting needs to be on the card itself.
    IDE/SCSI/SATA drivers are contained in the boot image and will detect supported hardware on bootup.
  • »25.08.10 - 08:07
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    @Divinity, Golem, Jim

    Thanks for the info - have consolidated it into the summary (post #1), updated the remaining questions, and added links to useful hack sites.

    The main outstanding questions relate to the status of onboard usb/lan/audio (working/non-working)?

    Best Regards



    Rich
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  • »25.08.10 - 11:39
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    As a user, not an insider I can only repeat what I've been told and speculate on the other points.
    USB onboard should be supported, but drivers already exist for NEC based UBB 2.0 cards. They're available at a low cost. The one I purchased works in Macs or PCs (I currently have it working under OSX). It has four external connections and one internal connector.
    LAN has always been supported on new releases. Its modem and wireless support that seems unlikely.
    Sound was supported for Mac Minis and eMacs, so its likely to be supported for Powermacs. The current driver does seems to have some issues (in particular low volume). However, from everything posted in this (and other) threads, Soundblaster Live cards should work (they're cheap too). I wouldn't be surprised to see other audio cards supported in the future.

    Golem's point on disk controllers makes an SATA controller look attractive as an alternate to the built in PATA controller. In order to boot from it, a disk controller will have to be recognized by Mac firmware. We'll have to see what the developers support, but I am seriously psyched. Shader support on video cards (and higher end video cards), support for Macs with an expansion bus, possible future support for G5s; WOW!

    And some people on this site (and others) think I'm too optimistic?
    Hey, if we get these things, our OS is going to kick serious ass (actually, it already does - this will just elevate it to a new level).

    Welcome to the future Amigans, where the promises made to you are actually fulfilled. I can't thank the developers enough for their time, focus, and commitment to finishing what they start.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »25.08.10 - 15:35
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Love the enthusiasm Jim, but be prepared for the trolls to come out after that post of yours.

    The MDD G4 PowerMacs have three ATA controllers and I think only one of them is PATA, the one that is connected to the Optical Drive(s). The other two controllers are ATA66 & ATA100 in my Dual & Single G4 PowerMacs w/FireWire400. FireWire800 models might be different.

    Many of the G4 PowerMacs up for auction or sale have SATA and/or USB2.0 cards included in them and those with the SATA cards often have only one hdd in the system connected to it, so MacOSX is booting from the SATA card at any rate.

    As for welcoming Amigans to the future, that is one way to look at it. The trolls and unhappy people will say welcome to the past of 5 years ago. :lol:

    I too, am very pleased with the current state of progress and direction that MorphOS2.x is going and look forward to version 2.6 being released in the (near) future.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »25.08.10 - 15:53
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11471 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I wouldn't be surprised to see other audio cards supported in the future.

    https://morph.zone/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1788 :-)
  • »25.08.10 - 16:02
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11471 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I think only one of them is PATA [...]. The other two controllers are ATA66 & ATA100

    Huh? "PATA" is just the newish designation for old "ATA" and came in useful to discern from then new "SATA". "ATA66" or "ATA100" are just one and the same as "PATA66" or "PATA100".
  • »25.08.10 - 16:12
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 449 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    PATA (Parallel ATA) isnt really a new term but has been a more common short form since SATA (Serial ATA) has been around.
    The MDD PowerMac G4 models have 3 PATA controller flavours on board. Those are an Ultra ATA 100MHz (as used in the Mac mini) one, another Ultra ATA 66MHz one and last but not least a 33MHz EIDE one.
    The earlier PMac G4 models (including the preceding Quicksilver model) do not have the Ultra ATA 100MHz controller but only the two other ones.
    All onboard PATA controller flavours will be supported by the initial MorphOS (2.6) PowerMac G4 release.

    We are planning to have networking supported for all G4 models from PowerMac 3,1 (SawTooth) to PowerMac 3,6 (MDD)

    Onboard Audio is only supported for the PowerMac 3,4 to PowerMac 3,6 range in the initial release and it will only be an output driver for now.

    Onboard USB (1.1) will be supported for all models. Afaik only the MDD/FW800 model allows "upgrading" to 2.0 but this is not really supported for MorphOS yet. You can always add a EHCI USB 2.0 pci card if you need it ...

    MorphOS supports a maximum amount of 1.5GB memory, even though you could plug 2GB
    into the MDD models which have 4 memory slots. They are shared on all available CPUs.

    MorphOS will (obviously) only support a single CPU for now. There are some ideas how to use the second, unused one as some sort of co-processor but this is nothing relevant for an initial (and even followup) release(s). MorphOS will stay a single cpu core OS for now and I don't see that changing for various reasons that have been discussed (to death) in the past already....

    There are currently issues with some add-on boards like SbLive! audio and SATA SiI3x12 cards which have driver support inside MorphOS but don't work stable in the PowerMac G4. I am looking forward to have that fixed for the release...

    bye
    Frank
  • »25.08.10 - 17:56
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2790 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Thanks for the clarification about all three controllers being PATA (for the too lazy to look it up, like me) and for the update regarding G4 PowerMac support being worked on. I have to boot up my MDD PowerMacs and check to see if they are 3,3 models, or later which have the audio output.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »25.08.10 - 18:51
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4955 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Sounds like things are moving along well. If onboard sound is working, I can shelve the SB Live card till these issues are worked out.
    The Envy24HT based cards that were referenced previously by Andreas could be an even better solution.
    Thanks greatly, Frank.

    BTW - I still think MOS owns the future of Amiga development.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »25.08.10 - 19:48
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1061 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Boot_wb: great research!
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »25.08.10 - 21:09
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    g4QS_redux
    Posts: 9 from 2010/8/25
    From: Germany
    jacadcaps:
    > Yes, the graphics card has to have a Mac bios. No idea
    > about PCI - if you can get a supported PCI card, it might
    > as well work (it still has to have a Mac bios).

    Sure, I understand that graphic cards in Power Mac G4 computers must have a Mac bios. However, can we also look forward to run MorphOS on Power Mac G4 (PCI Graphics) computers (Apple?s codename: Yikes!), though they do not offer an AGP graphics slot? If you state "it might as well work", do you mean only as a 2nd graphical card during operation or could a PCI graphics card completely replace AGP if I operate my Power Mac with MorphOS, i.e. could I do without AGP?

    If an AGP graphical card is not crucial, is it perhaps even possible to run MorphOS on a Power Mac G3 (Blue & White) extended with a G4 upgrade card?

    http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/by_system/powermac_g3_blue.html


    pega-1:
    > MorphOS supports a maximum amount of 1.5GB memory, even
    > though you could plug 2GB into the MDD models which have
    > 4 memory slots. They are shared on all available CPUs.

    Several Power Macintosh G4 machines older than the Quicksilver series also have got 4 RAM slots and, using Mac OS X, a maximum of 2 GB RAM was supported by the hardware. Yet, I guess that 2 GB of memory will probably not be supported on those computers if you run MorphOS, as these limitations also apply to MDD machines.
  • »25.08.10 - 21:10
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2538 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    @g4QS_redux

    Don't count on support for anything older than PowerMac3,1
  • »25.08.10 - 21:35
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 449 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:


    g4QS_redux wrote:

    Several Power Macintosh G4 machines older than the Quicksilver series also have got 4 RAM slots and, using Mac OS X, a maximum of 2 GB RAM was supported by the hardware. Yet, I guess that 2 GB of memory will probably not be supported on those computers if you run MorphOS, as these limitations also apply to MDD machines.


    I think I was pretty clear when i wrote

    "MorphOS supports a maximum amount of 1.5GB memory"

    even though you are right that older models than MDD had 4 slots as well. Only the PowerMac3,4 and PowerMac3,5 (Quicksilver) models had 3 slots. This doesn't change anything about the stated facts, though.
  • »25.08.10 - 21:42
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