Powermac supported devices
  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2714 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    @g4QS_redux

    The amount of HW differences between all models is really big. Let me repeat: there are NO PLANS to support PowerMacs other than the ones already mentioned by Frank (that is: 3,1-3,6).
  • »26.08.10 - 19:22
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:


    jacadcaps wrote:
    @g4QS_redux

    The amount of HW differences between all models is really big. Let me repeat: there are NO PLANS to support PowerMacs other than the ones already mentioned by Frank (that is: 3,1-3,6).


    As someone who put together a Quicksilver out of used parts and some things I had lying around (for well under $100), I'm cool with that.

    Essentially all AGP G4 Powermacs! Why ask for more than that?

    Oh, and to repeat, USB2.0? NEC PCI USB card! Already works on the Peg! Available for about $5! Works under OSX too!

    Please! Stop asking these guys for more! I just want to see what they say we're getting released!


    [ Edited by Jim on 2010/8/26 21:44 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.08.10 - 19:38
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 498 from 2009/9/8
    Quote:


    jacadcaps wrote:
    @g4QS_redux

    The amount of HW differences between all models is really big. Let me repeat: there are NO PLANS to support PowerMacs other than the ones already mentioned by Frank (that is: 3,1-3,6).


    :-) probably someone has no idea what is support SEVEN ! different models of PowerMac G4, I think :-)

    fantastic MorphOS team :-) ready to buy now the KEY :-)

    [ Edited by Divinity on 2010/8/26 21:52 ]
  • »26.08.10 - 19:50
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:


    Divinity wrote:

    :-) probably someone has no idea what is support SEVEN ! different models of PowerMac G4, I think :-)

    fantastic MorphOS team :-) ready to buy now the KEY :-)

    [ Edited by Divinity on 2010/8/26 21:52 ]


    Yes! Seconded! Had the money set aside months ago (when I re-flashed the 9250)! Will run around spouting "I've got the KEY!" like Timothy Leary when you release it!
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »26.08.10 - 20:42
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    It's Eight if you count the QS, QS (2002), MDD, MDD (2003) separately :-)

    Just reworked the summary (hopefully for the last time) after realising that the Model Descriptor (eg PowerMac3,x) seems to be the best way of describing the hardware (rather than the various other numbers Apple uses inconsistently).
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  • »26.08.10 - 20:58
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Divinity
    Posts: 498 from 2009/9/8
    Quote:


    boot_wb wrote:
    It's Eight if you count the QS, QS (2002), MDD, MDD (2003) separately :-).


    Nine, not eight so :-) :
    PowerMac AGP Graphics
    PowerMac AGP Gigabit Ethernet
    PowerMac AGP Digital Audio
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver 2002
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver 2002ED
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver MDD
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver FW800
    PowerMac AGP Quicksilver MDD 2003
  • »26.08.10 - 21:45
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  • Just looking around
    wonea
    Posts: 7 from 2003/2/24
    Very pleased to see my Mac sitting in that list! Thanks. Wondering whether a Geforce 4 TI would work? Got an Echo Mia sound card, but that's pretty exotic.

    Just realised I joined this site back in 2003 and have only made 7 posts, probably most of them as to why don't you support PowerMac's :-)

    [ Edited by wonea on 2010/8/27 17:21 ]
  • »27.08.10 - 15:17
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2099 from 2003/2/24
    NVidia is a complete nogo, only Radeons are supported (not really true, but the other cards aren't a real option either).

    You'll need a Radeon7000-9250 (re)flashed with a Mac-BIOS, some of the bigger Radeons might also work, but only in 2D.
  • »27.08.10 - 15:51
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    analogkid
    Posts: 626 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    I'm also really looking forward to the Powermac support in the upcoming 2.6 release and I really appreciate the efforts to make it also run on older Powermacs 3,1 - 3,3 , MorphOS is the perfect OS for the slow 7400 G4, and I hope you can manage to get it running on that early G4.

    Anyway, is it true that there won't be onboard sound support for Powermac 3,1 - 3,3 ? Well, it won't be a big issue for the users, because you can use a PCI SBLive.

    [ Edited by analogkid on 2010/8/30 10:21 ]
  • »30.08.10 - 08:20
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11707 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > is it true that there won't be onboard sound support for Powermac 3,1 - 3,3 ?

    I guess if it wasn't true then pega-1 wouldn't have claimed it :-)
  • »30.08.10 - 08:53
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    analogkid
    Posts: 626 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    Seems that i've overread this part of Franks statement. Thanks for showing it up again.
  • »30.08.10 - 09:05
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Edited to keep me from feeling too stupid. Sorry.

    [ Edited by Jim on 2010/8/31 2:24 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »30.08.10 - 19:15
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11707 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > That might be ideal for 7400 owners, but the work required would be
    > even greater than PCI G4 Powermac (so it doesn't seem remotely likely).

    Huh? PowerMac3,1 to PowerMac3,3 *do have* MPC7400.

    http://www.everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords=PowerMac3,1
    http://www.everymac.com/ultimate-mac-lookup/?search_keywords=PowerMac3,3
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4#Original_models

    > Doesn't the 7400 forego Altivec instructions?

    No, of course not.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_G4#Design
    http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/ref_manual/MPC7400UM.pdf
    http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7400TS.pdf
    http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7400EC.pdf
  • »30.08.10 - 19:37
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    analogkid
    Posts: 626 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    @Andreas_Wolf

    >Huh? PowerMac3,1 to PowerMac3,3 *do have* MPC7400.

    If I recognise it correctly, the MPC7410 used in the 466 and 533 Mhz versions of Powermac 3,4 (Digital Audio) is "just" a low-power version of the MPC7400, so the differences should be marginal. The MPC7450 seems to be a major overhaul of the earlier G4 cpus.

    [ Edited by analogkid on 2010/8/30 22:09 ]
  • »30.08.10 - 20:09
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11707 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If I recognise it correctly, the MPC7410 used in the 466 and 533 Mhz versions of
    > Powermac 3,4 (Digital Audio) is "just" a low-power version of the MPC7400

    Mainly, yes. There are some minor differences other than power usage though.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_G4#PowerPC_7410
    http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/ref_manual/MPC7410UM.pdf (page 85)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/prod_brief/MPC7410TS.pdf (page 35)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7410EC.pdf (page 2)

    > The MPC7450 seems to be a major overhaul of the earlier G4 cpus.

    Exactly, therefore the monikers "G4e" or "G4+".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_G4#PowerPC_7450
    http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/ref_manual/MPC7450UM.pdf (pages 110 to 112)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/prod_brief/MPC7450TS.pdf (pages 54 to 56)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7450EC.pdf (pages 7 to 9)
  • »30.08.10 - 20:34
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Edited to keep me from feeling too stupid. Sorry.

    [ Edited by Jim on 2010/8/31 2:25 ]
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  • »30.08.10 - 21:35
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11707 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > This would still require the development team to work on additional
    > chipsets/hardware that I doubt they'd want to be troubled with.

    Again, as you seem to have missed my last answer to you: PowerMac3,1 to PowerMac3,3 *do have* MPC7400. And as MorphOS is announced for these machines we can safely assume that the MorphOS Team does want to be troubled with their hardware.

    > Some of the machines that use this Processor even appear to have AGP slots

    Yes, that's the whole point of it in terms of MorphOS. All PowerMac G4 generations with AGP are supposed to be supported (but probably not every model of each generation, see there). I cannot believe that you've forgotten that:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6684&forum=11&post_id=75390#75390

    > although I did check what type yet

    We (as in you and me) discussed that at lengths already:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7261&forum=11&post_id=75095#75095

    > The PCI slot equipped 7400s could still be useful with a supported PCI graphics card.

    According to the MorphOS Team the PCI based PowerMac G4 generation (PowerMac1,2, "Yikes") will not be supported.

    > I've never considered looking back at the older hardware.

    I think you did, but forgot, which is frightening ;-)

    > There's a lot of systems that could be supported if the developers had the
    > time for them all.

    All PowerMac G4 generations except the very first one are AGP based.
  • »30.08.10 - 22:44
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4967 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Actually, I pretty much skipped over early G4 Macs. I had some friends using G3s, but by the time the first G4s staring to hit the market, I'd pretty much ignored Mac.

    I moved from the 68K to X86 hardware. PowerPC never really interested me as Apple was the only major player selling boxes with PPCs in them to the consumer. I've got to admit that I've always discounted Apple because I simply am not fond of the management.

    Right now, I probably know more about the e600 than I do about G3 and G4s. Sorry about the hasty posts. If I'd spent more time researching my information, I wouldn't have made the mistakes you've pointed out.

    [ Edited by Jim on 2010/8/31 2:26 ]
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  • »31.08.10 - 00:02
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    analogkid
    Posts: 626 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    @Andreas_Wolf

    > Yes, that's the whole point of it in terms of MorphOS. All PowerMac G4 generations with AGP are supposed to be supported (but probably not every model of each generation

    For my understanding, it's just a matter of the used CPU. If it couldn't be managed to get the 7400 running, a cpu upgrade should help. As pega-1 pointed out in one of your given links, the support of Powermac 3,1 to Powermac 3,3 doesn't mean that it is supported with its original cpus. But I'm sure you know this :)
  • »31.08.10 - 05:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11707 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > For my understanding, it's just a matter of the used CPU. If it couldn't be managed to get
    > the 7400 running, a cpu upgrade should help. As pega-1 pointed out in one of your given
    > links, the support of Powermac 3,1 to Powermac 3,3 doesn't mean that it is supported with
    > its original cpus.

    I think you misunderstood what he wrote. Here's the relevant part:

    "...PowerMac G4 support including models PowerMac3,1 to PowerMac3,6 with the requirement of [...] at least a 500MHz cpu card. The cpu part is still a bit open since we don't have machines with < 1GHz G4 CPUs for testing really and there are some known problems for the original low end 350/400/450/466MHz cards found in PowerMac3,1 to PowerMac3,4"

    So it's seemingly not a matter of the type of MPC74xx (MPC7400 or MPC7410 or whatever) but a matter of the clocking, for whatever reason which pega-1 didn't explain. At least that's how I've understood his statement. In detail this would mean:

    PowerMac1,2 (MPC7400):
    - not supported: 350 and 400 MHz
    - supported: none

    PowerMac3,1 (MPC7400):
    - not supported: 350, 400 and 450 MHz
    - supported: 500 MHz

    PowerMac3,3 (MPC7400):
    - not supported: 400 and 450 MHz
    - supported: 500 MHz

    PowerMac3,4 (MPC7410):
    - not supported: 466 MHz
    - supported: 533 MHz (as well as MPC7450 at 667 and 733 MHz)

    PowerMac3,5 and PowerMac3,6 (MPC7450 and MPC7455(B)):
    - not supported: none
    - supported: all
  • »31.08.10 - 09:48
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:


    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    I think you misunderstood what he wrote. Here's the relevant part:

    "...PowerMac G4 support including models PowerMac3,1 to PowerMac3,6 with the requirement of [...] at least a 500MHz cpu card. The cpu part is still a bit open since we don't have machines with < 1GHz G4 CPUs for testing really and there are some known problems for the original low end 350/400/450/466MHz cards found in PowerMac3,1 to PowerMac3,4"

    So it's seemingly not a matter of the type of MPC74xx (MPC7400 or MPC7410 or whatever) but a matter of the clocking, for whatever reason which pega-1 didn't explain. At least that's how I've understood his statement. In detail this would mean:

    PowerMac1,2 (MPC7400):
    - not supported: 350 and 400 MHz
    - supported: none

    PowerMac3,1 (MPC7400):
    - not supported: 350, 400 and 450 MHz
    - supported: 500 MHz

    PowerMac3,3 (MPC7400):
    - not supported: 400 and 450 MHz
    - supported: 500 MHz

    PowerMac3,4 (MPC7410):
    - not supported: 466 MHz
    - supported: 533 MHz (as well as MPC7450 at 667 and 733 MHz)

    PowerMac3,5 and PowerMac3,6 (MPC7450 and MPC7455(B)):
    - not supported: none
    - supported: all


    Thanks for that missing info Andreas, I've consolidated it into the OP.
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  • »31.08.10 - 10:59
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    analogkid
    Posts: 626 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    @Andreas_Wolf:
    < I think you misunderstood what he wrote. Here's the relevant part:

    And what about 3rd-party cpu upgrades? As far as I've heard Powermac support is also tested on a Powermac 3,1 with a cpu upgrade card.

    So, just a example:

    Powermac3,1 - 3,4 (MPC7447a) (many cpu upgrades from Sonnet feature a 7447a)
    supported?



    [ Edited by analogkid on 2010/8/31 13:36 ]
  • »31.08.10 - 11:36
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11707 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > what about 3rd-party cpu upgrades?

    I really don't know, I've never read any (semi-)official word on this other than that we shouldn't assume that any 3rd party CPU upgrade would be supported.

    > As far as I've heard Powermac support is also tested on a
    > Powermac 3,1 with a cpu upgrade card.

    Nice if it's true. Do you know which CPU card that is specifically? An MPC7448 card would be too much to hope for I guess ;-)

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6770&forum=3&post_id=69337#69337

    > Powermac3,1 - 3,4 (MPC7447a) (many cpu upgrades from Sonnet feature a 7447a)
    > supported?

    I'm the wrong one to answer this. You should rather ask that to a MorphOS Team member.
  • »31.08.10 - 12:40
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
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    analogkid
    Posts: 626 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    @boot_wb:

    Thanks for your fairly complete list of supported Powermac G4 versions. There are some points which I want to annotate.

    "PowerMac3,3:
    --4 x DIMM banks;
    --Supports PC100 SDRAM (Max 1.5GB);
    ----3.3V, 168-pin, unbuffered, non-registered (does not mention non-ECC or non-parity);
    ----Maximum of 16 devices (ie may be double-sided, but no more than 16 chips in total) per DIMM. [4]"

    I think you mean the maximum memory which this model can use, not only the maximum MorphOS can use. Mac OS X can use the full 2 GB of RAM in the PowerMac3,3.

    And some of the older PowerMac 3,1 - 3,5 support only harddrives < 128 GByte on the internal ATA controllers, don't know if it will affect MorphOS.
  • »31.08.10 - 15:18
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