AciII -- WHOA SAILOR! Not so fast!!! At AmiWest sit down with JDK and go through the email exchanges that we had with him. When you read those we think you will understand the issues better. You have unfortunately, misread some of the information we posted here. We do not have the time to watch the site as much as we apparently need to right now. We appreciate your effort and intent. Things are not so bad. You will see....

R&B

is anyone else worried?

Keeping the faith! just venting some. Amiwest should be great. I posted some real early photos in a thread. I will update it often so take a look every now and then.

I trust you BBRV, i just got a bit cought up in the thread I think is all.

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Note that, 7447A’s @~1.4Ghz with ~30 watts is an easy reach for Intel Pentium M (Dothan), 16watt grade** AMD K7 AXP-M* (Barton, uPGA Socket A), 25watt grade AMD K7 AXP-M*, and AMD K8 Athlon 64-M* (130 nm CG Rev).

*Mobile grades.
**Refer to incoming Geode NX for Socket A (PGA) for similar grades.

Reference;
For different K7 AXP-M grade refer to http://myplc.com/sony/docs/amd_processor_reference.htm

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What would be the referenced X86 processor?

[ Edited by Hammer on 2004/7/24 13:27 ]

Some interesting points raised:

DaveP wrote:

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gary_c wrote:

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It's about the experience of using MorphOS, not the speed. Actual speed and percieved speed are two different things, a very fast system can feel slow but a slow system can feel fast. The responsiveness needs to be preserved (OS X is usable on PearPC so this should be perectly possible). If you try something which requires a lot of CPU power thats were the system won't perform well and users interested in this are the ones likely to look at the native system.

It's a case of try before you buy, a form of advertising. If a 100,000 people try it out do you really think there'll be *no* more interest. There's a lot of interest in alternative systems these days and hobbiests are willing to look beyond Windows.

If anything the competitor will be Linux, but MorphOS is easier to get into.

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I think it'll be like the Amiga and other alternative OSs. Many users have other "main" systems such as PCs or Macs. I don't think MorphOS is competing with Windows here.

I do agree however that it may show some of the defficiencies, it'll really need a network stack to be included (or at least bundled). Also the sooner a modern browser appears the better, it used to be possible to get away with an older browser but not really these days, what's more standards are still advancing - i.e. XHTML 2.0.

There is of course the possibilty of users just sticking with their x86 machines and running MorphOS on it, that should not so much be seen as a loss for the Pegasos but a gain for MorphOS. I don't think one should be dependant on the other and opportunities should not be turned down even if they potentially disadvantage the other.

Emulation isn't as bad as it may seem, if you use Perl, Python or Java* they are all running in artificial envrionments.

*Java has a reputation for being slow but thats probably from people's earliest experiences with it years ago. These days Java is JIT'd and can be shown to outperform C in some areas.

For me there is only one Solution,, i dont need to buy a Computer like
Pegasos to give a chance to Company like Genesis. i could accept all of this
problems of the last month ,,,but if nox Pegasos User have to wait for a 1.5
Update only to have X86 User into the Ship i only can

Sell my Peg and switching to Mac Hardware ----same shity situation like
Amiga Atari ...and Beos Years Ago .........


by by MorphOS !

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This is a diffult comment to answer!

You want to sell your pegasos because:
1) Genesi has to focus on selling Pegasos ODW workstations (running Linux) to an important corporate customer, Freescale, first? Without a good working business relationship with Freescale, Genesi are not in business!

2) MorphOS1.5 is late. If a company like Microsoft with billions of $$$ behind it can not develop windows 'Longhorn' without delays for years, how much more difficult it is for s small group of people working on MorphOS in their spare time?

3) Genesi being able to give a small demonstration of MorphOS to thousands of people by permitting MorphOS to be run in an emulator?

Why not?

So you, like the rest of us 'users' have spent a little more to buy a pegasos than a PC or Mac (maybe, macs are still costly here). But if you are a developer, you have the chance to do something really 'ground breaking' on the pegasos, to make people of the world WANT to buy a pegasos and run MorphOS!

A company like APPLE would not be happy to allow licensing of clones or allow people to run their operating system in emulators.. but, a company like Genesi welcomes both licensing of the Pegasos hardware to make clones AND could possibly allow for emulation of MorphOS in certain situations, perhaps even running MorphOS directly on Mac hardware. Sounds alright to me.




I consider those 3 things important factors in getting the Pegasos and MorphOS recognised in the world.

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Maurix have you read the statement of the MOS core dev team? PearPC will not be featured currently. They said it is an interesting option, but *not now*. They do exactly what you and others like: they work hard on MOS.
Give them respect for that and there is no need to leave the MOS community (exept you changed your mind about MOS and it bores you day by day).

Maybe one day MOS for PearPC will appear but that day will be aerliest some time after MOS 1.5 is released.


[ Edited by Zylesea on 2004/8/4 10:42 ]

In my opinion, PearPC is _NOT_ even an interesting option yet. It's unusable as it is and that will not change in next couple of years, if ever.

About the next release of MorphOS.. I think it would be best to release a small update with some critical elements stuffed in (like tcp/ip-stack, Ambient imrovements etc.) soon, call it MOS1.5 if you want. And then release the major version as 2.0 or whatever.

Waiting a year before releasing the next release will be the biggest and (and probably the last) mistake MOS devs will make.

0.02 cents delivered.

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I have to agree here. If we dont get an update out BEFORE the release of the final AmigaOS4 things could look real bad for us. We had everyone that took a look at MorphOS at Amiwest go away with changed opinions of the OS and the system. If OS4 comes out and can be bought in stores it will start to get grim. We will never get the lead we have now back again. the good things we still have going for us is the lack of A1 boards now and the price for them, even the newly announced A1 micro will be in the $1000 range for a board with 128MB of RAM from resellers.

Get a small update out guys, at least the fixes you have working well now is better then nothing at all.

Well thats wright ..and i also would like to stay tuned with Morph i allways was open to new technologies i started with Linux 7 Years Ago , i was a Atari , Amiga user and i found this amazing Machine Pegasos2 last Year in Net and after 2 weeks i was a happy owner....

I think Morph is a really fast and innovative System and i really love to see it perfectly one day ..but do we really need X86 Users ? i there any System around people using Microsoft was interessted changing to?
There should be a lot of Software like Adobes Stuff , and al this kind of proffessional Software you can find for Windows to bring Morph to X86 Hardware,....but i understand the trying of this and i wil use it om my X86 hardware to one day,,,,for now i only would like to work with my Peg2 and morphOS so what we need is aupdate for Scanner Printer , a TCIP Port and some nice Software coming up .....maybe a 3D acceleration for Radeon Cards .....................not more ..... and i a Year a 2.0 Morph OS for the
Pear PC ..but if Pear PC goes on a lot of People would preffer MAC -OS_X
cause always People is looking for Software ..............

I not selling my Peg i love it to much now ,,,,but i hope i can use it abit more with Morph in Future fopr now i am a Linux ans Mol User...


friendly Maurix

Sorry for bad English ,,,

and A BIG COMPLIMNET TO DEV:::OF MORPH AND BPLAN they help me
a lot last week with my Memory MOdules Problem ,,,,,,,,Great Support !

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Thank you Maurix! Bplan guys are great.

We like bad english here!

I would like to see an Atari operating system ported to Pegasos, then we can add the Atari people, and make more friends

Are we getting special here!?

- How having MOS running on more machines is a bad thing per se?
- Had Amithlon destroyed the remaining Amiga market or opened it?
- Will AROS be the the one killing the Amiga market because it runs on x86? Will the programmers have to boycot AROS so they can still have a chance on PPC?
- Do we have to force all to run PPC so MOS can be sucessefull? (BeBox failed to, despite running at first on PPC, and *then* on x86)
- Will people get a wrong impression *knowing* the system is running trough emulation?
- Will AOS4 be the killer of MOS or will it actually help it by expandanding further new ways of doing things trough the very same way (Amiga way) present on MOS?

I have a PC and as many, do not see a chance in the near future to exchange to a machine that, despite being more fun and eficient to work can't do half of what I need. For my hobby I still have UAE, and believe had I had the skills and I would be programming for my favorite VP processor, 68k and it would take me long to change or at least be presented with such solution as MOS trough PearPc, at least until I had the money to actually buy a pegasos. Bedroom coders would be in the same position as I probably.. as many students.

So let's not pretend to remain unique now shall we? We've been unique for rather too long...

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Now thats a great idea! How much of a chance would this have? I mean can it be done? Other then TOS what OS do the Atari guys have? Did they ever get PPC support on the machines?

Port ARAnyM?

@Acill:
"the good things we still have going for us is the lack of A1 boards now and the price for them, even the newly announced A1 micro will be in the $1000 range for a board with 128MB of RAM from resellers."

Sorry, but the price of the micro A1 mk2 is 700€ with a PPC 750FX @ 800Mhz.

The MK3 revision will be produced in 10000 units and the price should be much much lower (350€ or so). AFAIK it will include 256MB of on board RAM as standard and not 128.

Sadly the availability of Pegasos2 boards isn't much better than A1s...


I agree with you and hooligan, a small update is very important... tcp/ip, altivec support and some ambient improvements will increase the interest in the platform... OS4 is improving faster than in the previous months and in some points it's catching up MorphOS.

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Yes I've said it a few times, and I am starting to worry about it. If you read the threads over at AW.net they are talking (Hyperion team) about how they now have everything in native PPC and how much faster its getting. If we do a small release of the needed parts it would help keep the advantage we have. The things I think we need released now are:

TCP/IP stack (The only advantage OS4 has over us now)
Updated printer files for TP
Ambient updates, even in just a few simple things. (A change in looks does a lot)

yes, for ambient the simple addition of a deficons-alike system would be enough

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Which asks the question, who would buy 10000 of these boards, th this price/performance rate ?

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Don't forget that you are comparing an MorphOS more than 1 year old to an OS4 which still lacks lots of basics, uses to-be-replaced-code in core elements (WB for example), and is mostly only ahead in areas that were started to before (Hype)OS4 (RoadShow for example.

Code:
Note that, Windows Anvil has to be release first before Windows Longhorn. The plan Windows Anvil release is sometime in 2005. Secondly, XNA initiative and other technologies develop from Anvil has to be in sync with Longhorn’s development.


[ Edited by Hammer on 2004/8/9 8:18 ]

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Who knows... but the price/performance/features will be very similar to Pegasos2/G3 boards so If I was Genesi I would watch out.

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Yes, but other areas like the number of native components has increased a lot and now most of the stuff is running natively, including things like reaction, mui,... and every betatester has stuff like a tcp/ip stack, nice partition and recovery tools, etc... so If I was Genesi I would release a small update with some important things like 3D Radeon drivers, Altivec, tcp/ip and a deficons alike system. I wouldn't wait much because the only thing publicly known that OS4 hasn't yet in their inner circle are 3D Radeon drivers... and the next betatester update will probably leave them with a system very similar to MOS 1.4.2. If Genesi releases a small update the advantages of MOS will help to boost sales. If Genesi waits to the next OS4 update to release the next MOS update they'll be at a very similar level and they won't have to compete only in features, but in brand too

So even if MOS1.5 is the nicest OS on Earth and they are improving the distributed processing features of MOS and you can write an app that can take advantage of every Peg in your network I wouldn't wait much because people is starting to feel tired of waiting.

As I was repeated, I think that sell MorphOS is COMPLETELY STUPID actually, because actually the main users are a bunch of amiga users & ex-amiga users, It can be money problems out there, but sell only will make kill the OS, because only the actual people (that is not for much for that this is ) will buy it... MorphOS it needs first a very strong update in a lot of areas for can be a real competitive OS, including one that seems the most difficult: QBOX. After this, must search some niche, where it can be very competitive on these market, and promoting pegasos and improving it ( thanks to the money winned from these niche ). Then new users will come in the desktop form, and more developers too... and then...

And finding niche for Pegasos II G3/G4 will give necesary benefits and making it cheaper at possibly medium time...


Personally I think that actually MorphOS is only for geeks and amiga/ex-amiga users...

[ Edited by timofonic on 2004/8/12 18:48 ]

here is what i think. other countries are looking for alternatives to windoews, china specificaly. if u could convince a whole country your set good bye money problems....

Another thing, the possible key for Pegasos II being sucessful can be the services... A PC gets outdated in short time, maybe renting services for servers...

BBRV, do you plan about use Atmel PC7447A for Pegasos II G4? It consumes a very few of watts

If we were able to get the Chinese market that would do so much for the advancement of the playform and the OS. Its easy to use (Well for past amiga users) and China did have Amiga based system they built there in the past as a sort of set top box thing. I'm sure it would do well IF it priced right for them. That is the key. More and more Chinese are getting high end things. The last time I was there it was like night and day from the time before.