MAI Logic historical information
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:


    Additional coverage Courtesy AmigaNews: http://amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2022-07-00068-DE.html
    Comment #6 from the story above includes an active archive link on topic

    (sorry, for some reason I can not embed this in a clickable link)
    I keep getting a smile face substitution for "D" regardless of what I try here. heh.

    #6



    Try this.

    It's a pity so few are interested in this any more. So basically the story on "our" side goes something like this:

    The Chinese steal the plans of PPC chips for fighters, including IBM/Apple's northbridge for new Macs, but make an arse of it because the chip has broken DMA. They attempt to sell it as a "Hackintosh" board, a common (but misguided) tactic of the late 90s. But the board is shit and the chip is broken, so nobody buys it.

    Martin Schueler promises everything to Eyetech, but falls through because he was clueless, leaving Eyetech in the lurch.

    Eyetech do some intense industrial searching and find Mai, and buy their Teron, and label it the AmigaONE, not only cheating its gullible customers into thinking it's a new Amiga design, but actually unwittingly taking part in a Chinese government attempt to steal US military technology.

    IBM find out and ditch Mai from their partners list, and the company mysteriously disappears.

    Eyetech run away.

    [ Edited by KennyR 22.07.2022 - 22:58 ]
  • »22.07.22 - 22:54
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 480 from 2008/8/10
    Thanks Kenny.

    Substituting with tinyurl did the trick.

    #6

    @Andreas_Wolf

    I suppose the above might not be off-topic for main considering the connection here.

    Please move it or link to it if you feel that's appropriate.

    Take care,

    #6
  • »22.07.22 - 23:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12097 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > So basically the story on "our" side goes something like this:
    > The Chinese steal the plans of PPC chips for fighters,
    > including IBM/Apple's northbridge for new Macs

    This reads like taken verbatim from Jason Hou's story (before the comma) and enriched by some KennyR delusions (after the comma) :-)

    > but make an arse of it because the chip has broken DMA.

    Considering that the FC-31/J-31 does fly, it may be concluded they didn't use stolen Aureate/Articia technology ;-)
    On the other hand, the identified chipset bugs may be non-issues for an aircraft cockpit display control system with supposedly only limited PCI bus load.

    > They attempt to sell it as a "Hackintosh" board

    Nobody ever attempted to sell a Teron board as a "Hackintosh" board. The idea doesn't make any sense given that no version of Mac OS can be run on such board.

    > Eyetech […] unwittingly taking part in a Chinese government
    > attempt to steal US military technology.

    So you think Jason Hou's story is true, even when Michael Coe's research says it isn't and it was Hou himself who in 2003 presented his products to Chinese government and military officials and in 2004 sold his technology to Chinese company ARC-9?

    > IBM find out and ditch Mai from their partners list

    IBM listed Mai Logic and its products as "Ready for IBM Technology" at least as long as the Wayback Machine crawled that webpage, which was until mid-2008.

    > and the company mysteriously disappears.

    According to Hou/Fukada, "the sophisticated business attacks […] orchestrated by Mr. Chiao [of Winbond and SMIC] led to Atum's bankruptcy in 2004 and Mai Logic's in 2005." :-)
  • »23.07.22 - 20:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12097 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > @Andreas_Wolf
    > Please move it or link to it if you feel that's appropriate.

    As a mere user, I have no such powers.
  • »23.07.22 - 20:51
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 480 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > @Andreas_Wolf
    > Please move it or link to it if you feel that's appropriate.

    As a mere user, I have no such powers.




    Fair enough.

    #6
  • »24.07.22 - 00:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 876 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Considering that the FC-31/J-31 does fly, it may be concluded they didn't use stolen Aureate/Articia technology ;-)
    On the other hand, the identified chipset bugs may be non-issues for an aircraft cockpit display control system with supposedly only limited PCI bus load.


    The Chinese stole a bunch of US technology during the 90s and early 00s. The Articia was just one of the IBM designs they attempted to (mostly successfully) clone.

    Quote:

    Nobody ever attempted to sell a Teron board as a "Hackintosh" board. The idea doesn't make any sense given that no version of Mac OS can be run on such board.


    It's a CHRP PPC board. There's literally nothing else these were ever useful for.

    If you wanted a PPC system for typical PPC use, Motorola already had a ton of SoCs they were literally paying people to take and develop around.

    Quote:

    So you think Jason Hou's story is true, even when Michael Coe's research says it isn't and it was Hou himself who in 2003 presented his products to Chinese government and military officials and in 2004 sold his technology to Chinese company ARC-9?


    There's absolutely no doubt it's true. The Chinese state has been stealing IP since the late 80s, that's not even contested any more. The US were perhaps always aware of it but a wary truce seemed to have existed up until 2008 and Obama's tenure.

    Quote:

    IBM listed Mai Logic and its products as "Ready for IBM Technology" at least as long as the Wayback Machine crawled that webpage, which was until mid-2008.


    See above.

    Quote:

    > and the company mysteriously disappears.

    [According to Hou/Fukada, "the sophisticated business attacks […] orchestrated by Mr. Chiao [of Winbond and SMIC] led to Atum's bankruptcy in 2004 and Mai Logic's in 2005." :-)


    Like I said, mysteriously disappears.
  • »06.01.23 - 23:47
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12097 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > The Articia was just one of the IBM designs [...]

    The Articia was no "IBM design" at all, but was designed by Mai Logic Inc., formerly Mentor ARC Inc., who had previously designed (but not put into production) the Aureate GX, which the Articia is more or less based on. It was MAI, not IBM, who bplan's Gerald Carda visited to demonstrate in person the shortcomings of their design.

    >>> They attempt to sell it as a "Hackintosh" board

    >> Nobody ever attempted to sell a Teron board as a "Hackintosh" board.
    >> The idea doesn't make any sense given that no version of Mac OS can
    >> be run on such board.

    > It's a CHRP PPC board. There's literally nothing else these were ever useful for.

    How would that, even if your 2nd sentence was true (surprise: it is not), change the fact that no version of Mac OS can be run on a Teron board and thus your claim that "they" attempted to sell the Teron board as a "Hackintosh" board must be completely made up? Do you have any proof, outside of your head I mean, that this attempt actually did happen?
    Regarding CHRP, you're misinformed, as Mac OS was only one of several OS planned to target CHRP. The other ones were already PReP-compliant GNU/Linux, Windows NT, OS/2, Solaris, AIX and, additionally, NetWare. Eventually, of those, only two OS, namely AIX and GNU/Linux, reached ill-fated CHRP, so no Mac OS among them. And I doubt there's even a version of AIX running as is on a Teron board.
    Bottom line: No (public version of) Mac OS ever ran natively on a CHRP board that was sold to the public, let alone a Teron one at that. The notion that the Teron was attempted to be sold as a "Hackintosh" board appears to emanate from some twisted fantasy world.

    > If you wanted a PPC system for typical PPC use, Motorola already had a
    > ton of SoCs they were literally paying people to take and develop around.

    Huh? What is this a reply to? Wasn't it about how Terons were allegedly attempted to being sold as "Hackintoshes"? No Teron board ever used a Motorola SoC, or any SoC at all. Had it used one, the Articia wouldn't have been necessary in the first place. After all, the Teron was designed as an evaluation board for the Articia northbridge chipset. Furthermore, the Motorola PowerPC SoCs of that time were embedded ones of the 603e/G2-based PowerQUICC II series at 450 MHz maximum. That's certainly not the performance class the CHRP (and later POP) enthusiasts were aiming at. As to "typical PPC use", back then PPC was typically used in embedded, desktop/laptop (Apple) and server space, which were quite disjoint (which is, minus desktop, still the case today btw).

    >> So you think Jason Hou's story is true, even when Michael Coe's research
    >> says it isn't and it was Hou himself who in 2003 presented his products
    >> to Chinese government and military officials and in 2004 sold his
    >> technology to Chinese company ARC-9?

    > There's absolutely no doubt it's true.

    Actually, Michael Coe does doubt it's true, as do I. But there's no doubt that you are able to manage to believe a story that is both incoherent and inconsistent. It doesn't constitute stealing when a company buys IP from another company.

    > The Chinese state has been stealing IP since the late 80s,
    > that's not even contested any more.

    As much as there's no doubt about that, it doesn't prove that this is what actually happened in this particular case. Such general statements create the impression that you didn't really read into it. Of course, there's no obligation to do so, but then there is neither to comment on it.

    >>> IBM find out and ditch Mai from their partners list

    >> IBM listed Mai Logic and its products as "Ready for IBM Technology"
    >> at least as long as the Wayback Machine crawled that webpage,
    >> which was until mid-2008.

    > See above.

    Seriously? If that's your answer, your timeline of the events must be completely messed up. To put it more bluntly: IBM never ever ditched MAI from their partners list as MAI was on that list as long as that list existed, which was until years after MAI's bankruptcy. IBM also never ditched Genesi from that list, despite them not being on that list for even one second longer than MAI. Got it now?

    > According to Hou/Fukada, "the sophisticated business attacks […]
    > orchestrated by Mr. Chiao [of Winbond and SMIC] led to Atum's
    > bankruptcy in 2004 and Mai Logic's in 2005." :-)

    > Like I said, mysteriously disappears.

    There's really nothing mysterious about a bankruptcy.
  • »21.03.23 - 20:40
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