USB Dell Mouse / Powerbook 5,9 MorphOS issues
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    esc
    Posts: 145 from 2013/5/28
    Hey friends,

    When launching either VoidPPC Linux or OSX (Tiger or Leopard) on my Powerbook 5,9, the Dell USB mouse works. It is of model MOCZUL. According to the specifications, it is rated to 5V, 100mA. I'm not sure if this is helpful information.

    On the other listed OSes, the mouse emits a blue light. Under MorphOS, there's a very slight occasional flicker of blue light but the mouse never truly works.

    I have several of these mice and they all exhibit the same behavior.

    Anyone have any ideas here?
  • »24.07.20 - 17:51
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2152 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Posting the VID/PID would be a good start if you want anyone to investigate.
  • »24.07.20 - 18:40
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    esc
    Posts: 145 from 2013/5/28
    Please excuse my ignorance. What's that? :)
  • »24.07.20 - 18:52
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2152 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Vendor and Product IDs. You'll find them in USB settings for the device.
  • »24.07.20 - 19:10
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    esc
    Posts: 145 from 2013/5/28
    Gotcha. Thanks. They are:

    Product ID: 0x4d51
    Vendor ID: 0x0461 (Primax Electronics)
  • »25.07.20 - 09:16
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2152 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Well, it doesn’t look like there is anything special about this device ... what logs does the USB prefs spew out when you plug it in?

    Got an amazon link for it? Maybe I could get one and take a look...
  • »26.07.20 - 11:58
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    esc
    Posts: 145 from 2013/5/28
    No messages at all when plugging/unplugging the mouse. Very strange!

    I can probably just mail you one if you like - pm me your shipping info. No big deal.

    On Amazon, I believe it's this: https://smile.amazon.com/Dell-6-Button-Perfectly-Connectors-Compatible/dp/B005O239FW/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=dell+moczul+mouse&qid=1595808368&sr=8-3
  • »27.07.20 - 00:08
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2152 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    The mouse actually works fine via a hub, either self-powered or bus-powered. I'll have to see what the pciusb driver does when going online, seems it sets things up in a way that prevents the mouse from booting up. There's no USB transfers at all when it can't start up.

    [ Edited by jacadcaps 08.08.2020 - 01:39 ]
  • »07.08.20 - 23:26
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  • esc
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    esc
    Posts: 145 from 2013/5/28
    Thanks for the update (and the PM). It’s interesting to me that it works in every other OS, so it would seem like MorphOS isn’t signaling to send power to the USB port maybe?
  • »08.08.20 - 09:48
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 758 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    esc wrote:
    Thanks for the update (and the PM). It’s interesting to me that it works in every other OS, so it would seem like MorphOS isn’t signaling to send power to the USB port maybe?


    When you plug it into Windows, does it work straight away or is it one of these annoying mice where there's a pause while Windows automatically installs a driver?

    There should be power to USB ports all of the time on most systems, but I'm aware that with Apple hardware this isn't always the case.

    [ Edited by KennyR 08.08.2020 - 11:16 ]
  • »08.08.20 - 10:15
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2152 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    It works w/o special drivers. Works in OF too... Guess this will give me a chance to play with Saleae soon :)
  • »08.08.20 - 12:08
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 758 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:
    It works w/o special drivers. Works in OF too... Guess this will give me a chance to play with Saleae soon :)


    It's not that - it's just some mice seem to require a software switch to actually turn on, something the driver does. (Or OpenFirmware, apparently.)

    My memory is hazy, but I think I had a Dell mouse back in the 00s that did this.

    Edit: Nope, it was an Asus mouse, which came with my laptop.

    [ Edited by KennyR 08.08.2020 - 14:41 ]
  • »08.08.20 - 13:37
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 758 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    The full story of my Asus mouse may have nothing to do with OP's problem but it was this:

    It worked in BIOS because it was initialised by the BIOS's own "USB Mouse Function" option which enabled USB devices to be used in MS-DOS. Linux also had no problems, with or without this option.

    But once Windows had booted, it required the driver to initialise the mouse. This was no problem for me, but when I added other use accounts that were non-admin, the mouse would just sit there, unpowered, because drivers need admin rights to install (even if they were shipped with Windows).

    I don't think I ever used that mouse on MorphOS to see what it did, and the Peg1 firmware didn't support mice or boot menu anyway.
  • »08.08.20 - 13:54
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2152 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    I guess that mouse supported HIDBP (BP for boot protocol), but not regular HID - or simply lacked a proper HID descriptor. It's very unfortunate that Microsoft has allowed vendors to make filter drivers that simply correct / fill out a descriptor the standard drivers can understand. That means the device itself may be bogus, but whatever it passes would then be filtered/corrected by the driver...
  • »08.08.20 - 23:07
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2152 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Finally had a chance to open the Dell mouse and capture the traffic with a logic analyzer. One can clearly see where exactly the mouse crashes... No fix for now but at least I’ve confirmed my suspicion that it is all about timings.

  • »17.09.20 - 03:36
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    polluks
    Posts: 530 from 2007/10/23
    From: Gelsenkirchen,...
    Quote:

    jacadcaps schrieb:
    Finally had a chance to open the Dell mouse and capture the traffic with a logic analyzer. One can clearly see where exactly the mouse crashes... No fix for now but at least I’ve confirmed my suspicion that it is all about timings.

    Wow!
    FYI Linux driver

    [ Editiert durch polluks 17.09.2020 - 16:44 ]
    Pegasos II G4: MorphOS 3.9, Zalman M220W · iMac G5 12,1
    Power Mac G3: OSX 10.3 · PowerBook 5,8: OSX 10.5, MorphOS 3.13
  • »17.09.20 - 14:11
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