New Modern Webkit-based Browser In Development
  • Just looking around
    Primax
    Posts: 13 from 2021/7/2
    This is a link to a Google translation:
    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=de&u=https://www.amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f%3D7%26t%3D1911

    As you can see - or at least here, in my Wayfarer 2.3 - on the right side there is a scrollbar but ist does not show that I could scroll down. I can scroll down but not by using the scrollbar...Spoofing as Chrome you could assume that it should work...;) So, it is a bug?
    AmigaOne X5000 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon HD 5450 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition / MorphOS 3.15
    Amiga1200 / Blizzard 1230 IV / 128 MB RAM / AmigaOS 3.9
  • »10.07.21 - 09:17
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BatteMan
    Posts: 253 from 2003/2/24
    From: France
    Don't post here since a long time but I want to say it again : thx Jaca, Wayfarer is a really incredible and awesome piece of software.

    I want to point out a "bug" with games (Interactive Fiction) created with Moiki.fr. If you try to launch a game, the loading halts with the downloading of sounds ("téléchargement des sons"). You can try one of my IF here : https://moiki.fr/social-club/batteman/speleologie-en-aveugle/play (it's in french, sorry ^^)
    (OWB succeeds to load it, after a more or less long time).

    But, the very good news is we can use Moiki Editor with Wayfarer !
    So, we can create and edit IF ! But we can't test them, even in the editor, for the moment.

    Thx !
    Proud user of MorphOS since 2003 !
  • »11.07.21 - 11:11
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2451 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    Primax wrote:
    As you can see - or at least here, in my Wayfarer 2.3 - on the right side there is a scrollbar but ist does not show that I could scroll down. I can scroll down but not by using the scrollbar...So, it is a bug?


    Just something I have not bothered to implement. Maybe later.

    @BatteMan:
    The website most likely fails because Wayfarer only mocks WebAudio support (it's there, but doesn't do anything). Not sure when I'll have a chance to look into this.
  • »11.07.21 - 14:59
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BatteMan
    Posts: 253 from 2003/2/24
    From: France
    @jacadcaps: thx. While waiting, I'll use Wayfarer to edit and OWB to test my IF.
    Proud user of MorphOS since 2003 !
  • »11.07.21 - 17:27
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    BatteMan
    Posts: 253 from 2003/2/24
    From: France
    Quote:

    jacadcaps wrote:

    @BatteMan: your stuff loads now :)


    @Jaca : you rulez! Thx!
    Proud user of MorphOS since 2003 !
  • »23.07.21 - 09:50
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1116 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ jacadcaps - do you think you will be able to get Wayfarer to access websites that have Cloudflare security on websites - as they seem to be [generally] inaccessible currently to Wayfarer as it cannot override / understand the protection preventing it from accessing them, as you get to the hCaptcha check, which you can complete, but then it "bounces" you back to hCaptcha again, and again, so you get nowhere - such as the site link I have passed above. :-?

    [Update] - I tried all the User Agents previously, but I now find that using the Safari/iOS option after Chrome did allow me to get access to that site - whether it works with all sites I don't know, but I have had issues with accessing other sites that have "Cloudflare" website protection.
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »25.07.21 - 07:38
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2451 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    As I have previously mentioned, I have no way of debugging code that was deliberately designed to make debugging it as hard as possible.
  • »25.07.21 - 19:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1116 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ jacadcaps - OK, I get the situation you're in/explaining.

    However, can you second guess what such software would be checking for with a specific web-browser or feature that it offers openly to another web server for it to allow that person access to such a website, i.e. what does Firefox, Chrome or any other mainstream web-browsers offer that is likely to satisfy such checking, that Wayfarer doesn't offer generally when using the Wayfarer, Chrome or Safari User Agent - that when using the Safari/iOS User Agent it offers that website details that allow it to connect through?

    That's so Wayfarer can incorporate such features to overcome this issue, if you think it could be possible to make such an intuitive, logic-based "guess" to improve Wayfarer with more User Agent capabilities that work more widely and effectively.

    I ask because I got through the check, after many attempts, by using the Chrome User Agent, and then swapped/reloaded the page as Safari/iOS which seemed to do the trick (complete the webpage/Cloudflare server check). So, surely there is something in what Wayfarer forwards to a website - when these User Agents are chosen that indicates it's a "friendly"/suitable web-browser to these sites in question, that the other options don't offer that might make the other User Agents more effective straight away if implemented in them all?
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »26.07.21 - 01:34
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 493 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:

    However, can you second guess what such software would be checking for with a specific web-browser or feature that it offers openly to another web server for it to allow that person access to such a website, i.e. what does Firefox, Chrome or any other mainstream web-browsers offer that is likely to satisfy such checking, that Wayfarer doesn't offer generally when using the Wayfarer, Chrome or Safari User Agent - that when using the Safari/iOS User Agent it offers that website details that allow it to connect through?


    The problem is likely way too complicated that it could be figured out from differences such as these. There likely are multiple factors, and they might have some interactions between them that also are not obvious.

    As mentioned earlier, the page in question is also deliberately trying to hide what it does by being highly obfuscated. This makes it really frustrating to try debug the problem.

    Finally, the service in question is likely also constantly updated (to combat attempts to bypass the protection). Hence any work you do on it might be affected by these changes. Even if you would figure out what the problem currently is and fix it, the page could suddenly change and break again.

    All these factors make it unlikely that this issue would get prioritized.
  • »26.07.21 - 02:47
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1116 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ Piru & jacadcaps - OK, I'll leave it there, I think you've offered fair insights into the matter, and I think if you thought there turns out to be a way in the future to "fix" this issue then you'll try your best to do so - as usual.

    So, I've got replies from you both, and you've been very fair in corroborating your replies, which I really appreciate, and I don't want to be seen to be annoying you/pestering you on a topic that isn't achieveable currently.
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »26.07.21 - 05:47
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1295 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @NewSense

    Quote:

    I don't want to be seen to be annoying you/pestering you on a topic that isn't achieveable currently.

    Just to be clear, it will never be achievable.

    Cloudflare's browser check is more complicated than you assume it is.

    More specifically, Cloudflare is a not a "one-solution-fits-all" service. You can sign up for a free account and take a look yourself. Website owners are free to choose what should be checked if someone attempts to visit their website.

    Just because you can visit one website protected by Cloudflare, this does not mean you can expect to visit all of them. For instance, some website owners may choose to block specific user agents.

    In general, it is also fairly trivial to detect if a user agent matches a browser's underlying engine. Since Odyssey and WF use Webkit, choosing "Safari" as a user agent is certainly your best bet. If you choose "Firefox" as your user agent but run a Webkit-based browser, being deemed a "suspicious visitor" is not surprising. (The same applies to pretending you run a Blink-based browser such as Chrome or Edge.)
  • »26.07.21 - 07:48
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Georg
    Posts: 74 from 2004/4/7
    webkitgtk-2.32.3's example MiniBrowser on Linux x64 at least seems to access the site mentioned by NewSense (https://www.zolo.ca/) just fine.

    Do you think it would still fail on little endian 64 bit MorphOS? Why? How can the site know that it is not being accessed from Linux machine but some other OS, if you don't tell it?
  • »29.07.21 - 18:57
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2451 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    From the debugging of those issues I've done so far I can tell you that those checks rely on timings as one of the markers. That's something that will obviously be totally off on a single core with no JIT.
  • »29.07.21 - 19:04
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Georg
    Posts: 74 from 2004/4/7
    Hmm ... why not (also) debug the other way round. Try to do things which you suspect should make a currently working browser (MiniBrowser) stop working. Like disable JIT. Run on slow emulator. Or single core machine.

    Site on MiniBrowser still worked after 'export JavaScriptCoreUseJIT="0"'

    Sometimes info you get from debugging can be deceiving. If it has to do with timing, maybe it's not the timing itself, but timing code implementation/precision.
  • »29.07.21 - 19:38
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1295 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Georg wrote:
    How can the site know that it is not being accessed from Linux machine but some other OS, if you don't tell it?

    Font fingerprinting
  • »30.07.21 - 02:54
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