Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1355 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:

    Could it be that Hyperion will actually cease to exist as a legal entity in Belgium? Makes me wonder how close Ben Hermans is to giving up on Hyperion Entertainment as a business? I don't imagine that he has made enough money from AmigaOS4 sales to even cover all the legal costs from the initial legal battle with Amiga Inc. AND this current legal struggle with Cloanto and the "Amiga Parties".

    Let's give him some encouragement; "Give it up Ben", no one likes you or believes what you say anymore. Obviously no work is being done to develop AmigaOS4 at this point in time (and probably not for the past several months, since Sollie was fired). Just let it go and allow Cloanto and the community to carry what is left of the Amiga forward.


    It is ridiculously long overdue for HYPE to close up shop. It seems to me the OS3.14 release (or whatever it is called A_W) gave a temporary shot in the arm for legal costs. I'd imagine that is just about dried up.

    What I wonder is what scorched earth tactic will he do on his way out? He won't just leave, he'll probably try to take down all of his former associates and business partners. Will he sue A-Eonkit, the Wonder Twins and others?

    [ Edited by redrumloa 08.08.2019 - 12:01 ]
  • »08.08.19 - 16:59
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 676 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Ben's had better times to leave and he hasn't taken them. I doubt he will now. OS4 is dead, but he can still make money from 3.1.4.

    Once it was common belief that he, personally, was in debt with Hyperion, and was holding on because he wanted them repaid. But we now know that he was simply charging his legal bills to Hyperion, and has apparently swapped them for near-complete ownership of the company. Possibly shafting everyone else who had stakes or shares in Hyperion.

    There's plenty we still don't know about how this all works, but I think he'll leave when he's made a lot of money and can't make any more, even if that means he has to completely destroy everything and everyone else in the process.
  • »08.08.19 - 17:08
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1355 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Ben's had better times to leave and he hasn't taken them. I doubt he will now. OS4 is dead, but he can still make money from 3.1.4.


    I'd guess anyone who would actually pay for 3.1.4 has already bought it. There is a percentage of the Kommunity that will buy anything with an "Amiga" label the moment it comes out. After that? Probably close to nill. The rest of the Kommunity would just pirate it if they wanted to try it out. It seems to offer very little compared to OS3.9 from an end user perspective.

    Also, despite what some others think here, I think 3.1.4 will be deemed a pirate release by the courts.
  • »08.08.19 - 17:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 676 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    I'd guess anyone who would actually pay for 3.1.4 has already bought it. There is a percentage of the Kommunity that will buy anything with an "Amiga" label the moment it comes out. After that? Probably close to nill. The rest of the Kommunity would just pirate it if they wanted to try it out. It seems to offer very little compared to OS3.9 from an end user perspective.


    Cloanto manage to keep a business going selling 3.1 and various other stuff, mainly to retro fans and collectors. Ben's obviously gunning to take over that market from them - hence the lawsuit. (And hence Jens' sudden involvement - he needs Picasso96!)

    3.9 has a problem in that it doesn't run on 68000, and this makes it a poor choice for things like super-68000 boards and FPGA boards that may not emulate 020 well or at all. Oh, and in that it's difficult to buy except second hand - H&P don't seem to sell it any more.

    [ Edited by KennyR 08.08.2019 - 19:29 ]
  • »08.08.19 - 19:25
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10620 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Trevor denies A-Eonkit own ExecSG. He does not deny that he personally owns it,
    > as in Trevor the individual.

    Interesting comment:

    "I'll also be staying with Steven and his family during my short stay in Calgary. It will be a good chance to discuss future development plans for ExecSG."
    http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=11757

    And on another note from the same source:

    "I've even managed to squeeze in a meeting in London with Timothy de Groote and Michael Battilana of Cloanto & C-A Acquisition Corporation as we tried to find a mutually agreeable compromise to the current legal impasse. Although not successful on this occasion, it was still quite an enjoyable day"
  • »09.08.19 - 16:00
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 69 from 2009/5/6
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Ben's had better times to leave and he hasn't taken them. I doubt he will now. OS4 is dead, but he can still make money from 3.1.4.


    I'd guess anyone who would actually pay for 3.1.4 has already bought it. There is a percentage of the Kommunity that will buy anything with an "Amiga" label the moment it comes out. After that? Probably close to nill. The rest of the Kommunity would just pirate it if they wanted to try it out. It seems to offer very little compared to OS3.9 from an end user perspective.

    Also, despite what some others think here, I think 3.1.4 will be deemed a pirate release by the courts.


    "It seems to offer very little compared to OS3.9 from an end user perspective. "

    That is not true at all. It offers the ability to install the OS to 68000 thru 68060 with large disks, large filenames and every fix rolled up without having to manually run a dozen fixes and boing bags and the rest of the crap it used to take to install the OS. You can continue to hate on whomever you like but don't talk crap about the product as it DOES provide considerable value especially to folks just getting into Amigas for the first time. FAR better experience installing 3.1.4 and having it work rather than dicking around with all of the "tweaks" required before.

    And your other erroneous statement about folks pirating it is ridiculous as well as you have to have the ROM installed to use it... So clearly you have never used it and have no idea what you are talking about.


    <smh>

    [ Edited by outlawal2 09.08.2019 - 13:07 ]
    "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." Quote from Rambo...
  • »09.08.19 - 19:06
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 676 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Ben's obviously gunning to take over that market from them - [...] hence Jens' sudden involvement

    I don't think this causality is for real. Cloanto is merely a P96 licensee and never claimed more in this regard.


    I mean Jens needs Picasso96, not Ben.

    On 3.1.4 you can simply keep using whatever driver your card came with. Jens has the problem that he actually releases hardware with its own graphics, and seems to have taken umbrage at Cloanto. Hence a (very) tenuous InCo-Hype... well, I wouldn't even call it an alliance. More like mutual sympathy.
  • »09.08.19 - 19:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10620 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> Ben's obviously gunning to take over that market from
    >>> them - [...] hence Jens' sudden involvement

    >> I don't think this causality is for real. Cloanto is merely
    >> a P96 licensee and never claimed more in this regard.

    > I mean Jens needs Picasso96, not Ben.

    Yes, I got this much. What I don't get is how Ben wanting to take over the OS3/m68k/classic market from Cloanto can be a reason for Jens having purchased P96 from Abt&Kneer.

    > On 3.1.4 you can simply keep using whatever driver your card came with.

    With the caveat that using CGX instead of P96 prevents some features from working due to some CGX internals being kept closed.

    > Jens [...] seems to have taken umbrage at Cloanto. Hence a (very) tenuous
    > InCo-Hype... well, I wouldn't even call it an alliance. More like mutual sympathy.

    I think the causality is more likely the other way round, i.e. Hyperion has handed out some licenses to Jens, which are essential to his Amiga business and are now being disputed by Cloanto in court, so Jens is trying to (financially) harm Cloanto where he can, hoping this will help Hyperion against Cloanto and increase the probability of upholding his licenses. Remember that Jens announced to leave the Amiga market should Cloanto win a lawsuit (which would most likely mean the annulation of the licenses).
  • »09.08.19 - 22:17
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1355 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:

    -clipped advocacy chest pounding-

    And your other erroneous statement about folks pirating it is ridiculous as well as you have to have the ROM installed to use it... So clearly you have never used it and have no idea what you are talking about.


    <smh>


    You don't think people know how to burn a ROM image? Bless your heart...

    And to answer your question before you ask, no I do not have a pirate copy of 3.1.4, I'm not interested in it. I am using a distro based on 3.9 (Coffin) since I already own 3.9, and don't see as an end user (as stated) any advantage of buying 3.1.4. I don't have to fumble with patches or such nonsense, it is turn key.

    [ Edited by redrumloa 09.08.2019 - 21:08 ]
  • »10.08.19 - 02:05
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 69 from 2009/5/6
    Awww Bless my heart... You Snarky Douchebag.. Even you could probably figure out that burning a ROM is quite limiting for MOST individuals.. Or maybe you aren't that bright..

    And not everyone knows about multiple distros based on other versions of Amiga OS so once again 3.1.4 DOES have merit for new users.

    Thanks for pointing out that you are nothing but an elitist asshole. Much appreciated.

    Dont let anyone get in the way of your Hyperion hate-fest as that seems to be all you have to offer.
    "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." Quote from Rambo...
  • »10.08.19 - 19:17
    Profile
  • Just looking around
    Adonay
    Posts: 17 from 2015/8/7
    From: Norway
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:
    Awww Bless my heart... You Snarky Douchebag.. Even you could probably figure out that burning a ROM is quite limiting for MOST individuals.. Or maybe you aren't that bright..

    And not everyone knows about multiple distros based on other versions of Amiga OS so once again 3.1.4 DOES have merit for new users.

    Thanks for pointing out that you are nothing but an elitist asshole. Much appreciated.

    Dont let anyone get in the way of your Hyperion hate-fest as that seems to be all you have to offer.



    To be honnest any ACA or Blizzard 030 and up has maprom\blizzkick or whatever. Who would bother to burn roms with any of those ?

    And how many new users buy a 30 year old amiga? Most would just download winuae AND the roms.
  • »13.08.19 - 21:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2634 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Adonay wrote:
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:
    Awww Bless my heart... You Snarky Douchebag.. Even you could probably figure out that burning a ROM is quite limiting for MOST individuals.. Or maybe you aren't that bright..

    And not everyone knows about multiple distros based on other versions of Amiga OS so once again 3.1.4 DOES have merit for new users.

    Thanks for pointing out that you are nothing but an elitist asshole. Much appreciated.

    Dont let anyone get in the way of your Hyperion hate-fest as that seems to be all you have to offer.



    To be honnest any ACA or Blizzard 030 and up has maprom\blizzkick or whatever. Who would bother to burn roms with any of those ?

    And how many new users buy a 30 year old amiga? Most would just download winuae AND the roms.



    Even though I share the very strong dislike for Ben Hermans and just about everything else about Hyperion Entertainment, I have to agree with outlawal2 and his recent posts in this thread. I won't buy 3.1.4, because I don't want to support Hyperion Entertainment any more than I already have in the past. I just want Ben to lose and go away, so putting any more money into his insane excuse of a company, is just counter productive at this point in time. I hope more users begin to think this way, and maybe we can just force him out of OUR market some time in the future. It is just too bad that the good and honest developers who did all the work to create 3.1.4, took it to Hyperion (not that they had many other options at that time), because maybe if they had waited, they could have taken it to Cloanto, who I believe to be honest and who I believe have better respect for the community of remaining Amiga users.

    I know for a fact that there are still "some" new Amiga users, who are buying 30 year old Amiga hardware, because I have met several of them over the past 10+ years. Outlawal2 has a very valid point.

    [ Edited by amigadave 13.08.2019 - 13:26 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »13.08.19 - 21:25
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 368 from 2008/8/10
    @thread

    Nothing much new to report except a new request for extension of time. These are usually granted.:

    Quote:

    MOTION for Extension of Time (Ex Parte) to Extend Time For Filing Initial Disclosures, Holding Rule 26(F) Conference, and File Joint Status Report , filed by Plaintiffs C-A Acquisition Corp, Cloanto Corporation. Noting Date 8/21/2019, (Troy, Gordon)


    Source item 13

    This delay, if/when granted, would "likely" push the trademark case past the date of the reported, but unconfirmed by public document...bankruptcy hearing posted about on July 8, 2019

    Source

    No idea whether this delay is mere coincidence with the report of the bankruptcy hearing, since the court has been silent since they announced this initial legal proceeding in June, 2019, with the expectation that the court would know the resolution by end of June, 2019.

    *shrug*

    #6
  • »22.08.19 - 16:18
    Profile
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 436 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:


    "It seems to offer very little compared to OS3.9 from an end user perspective. "

    That is not true at all. It offers the ability to install the OS to 68000 thru 68060 with large disks, large filenames and every fix rolled up without having to manually run a dozen fixes and boing bags and the rest of the crap it used to take to install the OS. You can continue to hate on whomever you like but don't talk crap about the product as it DOES provide considerable value especially to folks just getting into Amigas for the first time. FAR better experience installing 3.1.4 and having it work rather than dicking around with all of the "tweaks" required before.

    <smh>


    OK, but OS 3.5 or OS 3.9 with those tweaks is way advanced. Its pacthed 3.1

    OS 3.1.4 lacks at least:

    • Workbench (AsyncWB - adds asynchronous copying and delete functionality to Workbench.
    • Multimedia programs (MP3 player, AVI & QT player, new CD player).
    • Web browser AWEB 3.4 SE (new version).
    • GENESIS (full Internet and network access).
    • AmiDOCK (new program start bar).

    Gladly, OS 3.1.4 can be applied on top of OS 3.9

    Its just improved milking scheme. I somewhat suppose any further m68k software
    coming from AOEN or Hype, be it AmiStore or Enhancer, will require OS 3.1.4 for no real reason.

    Too bad both OS 3.1.4 and OS 4.0 started from 3.1 sources, so they both miss some
    of OS 3.9BB2 feats. And that no one continued development from OS 3.9BB2
    so this is "artficial fork" - of OS 3.1. Same milking manner as Enhancer.

    [ Edited by vox 03.09.2019 - 19:17 ]
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
    YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
  • »22.08.19 - 17:49
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 676 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Directory Opus would have been a great addition to 3.1.4, but Hyperion shit all over that one as well.
  • »22.08.19 - 20:53
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 676 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Heh. This morning I saw an email tagline that sums up the Hyperion situation perfectly:


    Q: How many lawyers does it take to change a light bulb?
    A: One. Only it's his light bulb when he's done.


    One might assume that the application for delay has been submitted to give Ben time to prepare for Hyperion's bankruptcy hearing. Now he's recapitalised the company one might also assume they won't be folded.

    So for Trevor waiting on the wings, the upside is that he didn't lose Hyperion or OS4. But the downside is that he lost Hyperion and OS4.
  • »23.08.19 - 10:31
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 368 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    @thread

    Nothing much new to report except a new request for extension of time. These are usually granted.:

    Quote:

    MOTION for Extension of Time (Ex Parte) to Extend Time For Filing Initial Disclosures, Holding Rule 26(F) Conference, and File Joint Status Report , filed by Plaintiffs C-A Acquisition Corp, Cloanto Corporation. Noting Date 8/21/2019, (Troy, Gordon)


    Source item 13

    This delay, if/when granted, would "likely" push the trademark case past the date of the reported, but unconfirmed by public document...bankruptcy hearing posted about on July 8, 2019

    Source

    No idea whether this delay is mere coincidence with the report of the bankruptcy hearing, since the court has been silent since they announced this initial legal proceeding in June, 2019, with the expectation that the court would know the resolution by end of June, 2019.

    *shrug*

    #6


    Delay in trademark case granted. New schedule is pushed back about 2 months and may (as before with the contract case) see further amended scheduling. Barring settlement, neither case will go to trial until 2020.

    #6
  • »24.08.19 - 13:07
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    Posts: 69 from 2009/5/6
    Quote:

    vox wrote:
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:


    "It seems to offer very little compared to OS3.9 from an end user perspective. "

    That is not true at all. It offers the ability to install the OS to 68000 thru 68060 with large disks, large filenames and every fix rolled up without having to manually run a dozen fixes and boing bags and the rest of the crap it used to take to install the OS. You can continue to hate on whomever you like but don't talk crap about the product as it DOES provide considerable value especially to folks just getting into Amigas for the first time. FAR better experience installing 3.1.4 and having it work rather than dicking around with all of the "tweaks" required before.

    <smh>


    OK, but OS 3.5 or OS 3.9 with those tweaks is way advanced. Its pacthed 3.1

    OS 3.1.4 lacks at least:

    • Workbench (AsyncWB - adds asynchronous copying and delete functionality to Workbench.
    • Multimedia programs (MP3 player, AVI & QT player, new CD player).
    • Web browser AWEB 3.4 SE (new version).
    • GENESIS (full Internet and network access).
    • AmiDOCK (new program start bar).

    Gladly, OS 3.1.4 can be applied on top of OS 3.9

    Its just improved milking scheme. I somewhat suppose any further m68k software
    coming from AOEN or Hype, be it AmiStore or Enhancer, will require OS 3.1.4 for no real reason.




    I don't see it as "just improved milking scheme". While you are correct that 3.5 and 3.9 offer more bells and whistles, not everyone wants all of that. Also, 3.5/3.9 require accelerated Amigas to run decently where you can use 3.1.4 on bog standard Amigas and I think this is an important distinction.
    Again, if a person is new to the Amiga or simply hasn't been around it for 20+ years and doesn't want to IMMERSE themselves into it for DAYS to get setup... Then the ability to quickly install 3.1.4 on an un accelerated Amiga and be up and running in an hour or so is quite appealing to folks. I have multiple Amigas with different versions of Amiga OS and I like 3.1.4 because it installs CLEAN and SIMPLE and incorporates 30 years of fixes without the hassles of patching after the fact.

    And Again I don't like the companies involved or the people but this PRODUCT is pretty damn good if you care about the things I just stated.

    And if you are a purist that has worked with Amigas for decades or you have a lot of time set aside and want the challenge of setting things up more traditionally (for lack of a better term) then 3.1.4 is not for you.

    I can tell you from experience however, that setting up a fresh 3.1.4 machine is FAR easier and quicker than setting up a 3.9 machine.

    It just depends on what is important to YOU.
    "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." Quote from Rambo...
  • »27.08.19 - 14:22
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 368 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > activity from the somewhat dormant trademark case

    At least they could have the obvious mistakes (see comments #882 and #886) corrected before re-issuing :-)


    I used the word "dormant" because it's so different than the contract case.

    obvious back and forth between parties in the contract case
    trademark case with only 1 party?

    so I ponder...

    If anyone can explain how a complaint would be filed followed by months of silence and then a re-issue granted amended complaint gets filed with still no word from the other party, I'd appreciate it.

    #6


    Apparently I'm not the only one who saw the lack of replies from Hyperion's attorneys to be somewhat out of order.
    Yesterday a "compel" was filed.

    Quote:

    A motion to compel asks the court to order either the opposing party or a third party to take some action. This sort of motion most commonly deals with discovery disputes, when a party who has propounded discovery to either the opposing party or a third party believes that the discovery responses are insufficient.


    Item #75

    That is all I know about this at this time.

    #6
  • »30.08.19 - 15:33
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 368 from 2008/8/10
    @thread

    Actually today Pacer has a bit more as to the recent filing:

    Quote:

    MOTION to Compel and for an Award of Attorney's Fees and Costs Incurred


    Source

    #6
  • »30.08.19 - 17:16
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2602 from 2003/2/24
    @ number6

    Given Hyperion's track record and play against Amiga Inc, I think it would be a fitting karma-like ending if they just defaulted into oblivion...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »30.08.19 - 17:37
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 676 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    I can't even consider how many sleepless nights Ben must be pulling trying to fight the Cloanto lawsuit, keeping Hyperion solvent and actually doing his real job.

    If he isn't careful, he could end up out of another job. And this time I doubt he'd recover.
  • »30.08.19 - 20:54
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1355 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    @thread

    Actually today Pacer has a bit more as to the recent filing:

    Quote:

    MOTION to Compel and for an Award of Attorney's Fees and Costs Incurred


    Source

    #6


    At this point is Hermans living under a bridge using the local McDonalds free wifi? And McDonalds just cut him off?
  • »03.09.19 - 15:27
    Profile
  • vox
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    vox
    Posts: 436 from 2003/11/25
    From: Belgrade
    Quote:

    outlawal2 wrote:
    That is not true at all. It offers the ability to install the OS to 68000 thru 68060 with large disks, large filenames and every fix rolled up without having to manually run a dozen fixes and boing bags and the rest of the crap it used to take to install the OS. You can continue to hate on whomever you like but don't talk crap about the product as it DOES provide considerable value especially to folks just getting into Amigas for the first time. FAR better experience installing 3.1.4 and having it work rather than dicking around with all of the "tweaks" required before.
    <smh>


    Its all tweaks, its just implemented as early as boot menu, because OS 3.1.4 has its own ROM.
    OS 3.9 Remus Roms of 512k offer way more.

    While large disk support is nice, it exists in OS 3.5 - OS 3.9 in more rudimentary form.

    I can count 15 small things that OS 3.9 has and OS 3.1.4 dont - like MUI, WarpOS, AmiDock, newer datatypes included.

    Yes, OS 3.1.4 is bugfix release, it offers less then OS 3.5 or OS 3.9 did, and its only hope is it might be develop further. OS 3.1.4 even eats about the same RAM as OS 3.5 while offering less.

    Its current strongpoint is availiability since there are very few OS 3.9 left.

    And there is some more hope for 3.1.4/3.9 purchases on Vampire standalone.

    But with 3.1.4 Hype did not bother to optimize 020 version, or to put 080 ID.
    ------------------------------------------
    x1000 user, ASAP Vampire Standalone user, future MOS user
    YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdHl_msNWHEVPf229h_gijQ
  • »03.09.19 - 18:15
    Profile