G5 Dual/Quad core - how much would it take...?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10264 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the performance of the X5000 is not nearly as bad as some have portrayed it to be.
    > We haven't even seen it running MorphOS yet

    Benchmark results requested by me have been released by pampers in January 2016. Anybody could have requested other/more results as offered by him, but nobody did.
  • »15.09.17 - 09:48
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4744 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > the performance of the X5000 is not nearly as bad as some have portrayed it to be.
    > We haven't even seen it running MorphOS yet

    Benchmark results requested by me have been released by pampers in January 2016. Anybody could have requested other/more results as offered by him, but nobody did.


    I've exchanged messages with Wiktor, he didn't seem unhappy with the X5000, he was upset over the dearth of software for MorphOS.

    Wiktor has explored each of the best options for MorphOS, from hi-res PowerBooks, to G5s, to the X5000, and his complaint has never been about performance issues.

    He's unhappy about issues related to the lack of productivity software, browser support, and the utility in using a MorphOS system as a daily platform.

    Quad G5 support would NOT alter this.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.09.17 - 14:26
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4744 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Lack of drivers for:
    - builtin network card (i need to use Realtek on PCIe)
    - fans (always on middle speed)
    - temperature support
    - gfx card support is not finished, i couldn't get some HD4xxx working, so i use X1950xt
    all of these above would be part of the bounty :D


    + lack of time and releasing new platform support will require support for users etc.
    + professional release should deal with gfx card problem: as PCIes have NVidia card users would need to buy either Radeon X1900 mac version (very hard to find and expensive) or some X1900/X1950 card with pc bios. Having pc bios card (as I have) doesn't allow to see OF or MacosX.

    Good thing with PCie is that WIFI Atheros cards works so no need to look for hard to find Airport for g5 pcies.






    The R600 and R700 drivers ought to be ready soon, and Mark is working on higher Radeon HD card drivers as well.

    Frank has an X1950XTX (I believe).
    And I have an Apple X1900GT in my Quad, they are easy to come by.

    I doesn't seem fair that you would restrict use of PCI-E G5s to developers based solely on the network support issue.


    [ Edited by Jim 15.09.2017 - 11:12 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »15.09.17 - 14:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 10264 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Radeon X1900 mac version (very hard to find and expensive)

    > Apple X1900GT [...] are easy to come by.

    Yes, but price very much depends on your location. Currently, eBay Germany only lists an offer by a US dealer (59 EUR + 54 EUR shipping, new, more than 10 available). 113 EUR for the card is pretty steep.

    >> Lack of drivers for:
    >> - builtin network card (i need to use Realtek on PCIe)
    >> - fans (always on middle speed)
    >> - temperature support

    > I doesn't seem fair that you would restrict use of PCI-E G5s to
    > developers based solely on the network support issue.

    That's why it isn't based solely on the network support issue, I guess ;-)
  • »15.09.17 - 19:14
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 862 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Good thing with PCie is that WIFI Atheros cards works so no need to look for hard to find Airport for g5 pcies.



    I read there's a hack to mount a standard A1027 instead of Runway card (but you need to hack the antenna connector and you loose the Bluetooth option).
  • »16.09.17 - 08:13
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    Kronos
    Posts: 1854 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    I doesn't seem fair that you would restrict use of PCI-E G5s to developers based solely on the network support issue.



    Dunno wether they have improved it in the past years, but the lack of proper fan control made my iMacG5 totally useless as an everyday machine when it got MorphOSed for some demo.

    HW wise it is very close to the PCIe PMacs.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
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  • »16.09.17 - 08:59
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4744 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >> Radeon X1900 mac version (very hard to find and expensive)

    > Apple X1900GT [...] are easy to come by.

    Yes, but price very much depends on your location. Currently, eBay Germany only lists an offer by a US dealer (59 EUR + 54 EUR shipping, new, more than 10 available). 113 EUR for the card is pretty steep.

    >> Lack of drivers for:
    >> - builtin network card (i need to use Realtek on PCIe)
    >> - fans (always on middle speed)
    >> - temperature support

    > I doesn't seem fair that you would restrict use of PCI-E G5s to
    > developers based solely on the network support issue.

    That's why it isn't based solely on the network support issue, I guess ;-)


    If any of you find X1900GT cards in the US, I can ship them to Germany for about $23.00 via first class postage, or about $35 using priority mail.
    The card I own cost me $20.

    And the PCI-E G5 under MorphOS would be able to use PC video cards for R500 and above Radeon. Currently this would allow the X1950XTX to be used, which is quite a fast card with 512mb of vram.
    Yesterday, I bought a Radeon HD 6750 for my quad on eBay for $25.
    This card should eventually be supported under MorphOS (Mark has one).

    As to fan control. Give me a version with the fans set to full and I'll add manual fan trimmer pots until software control is enabled.

    [ Edited by Jim 16.09.2017 - 08:29 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »16.09.17 - 13:28
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    Kronos
    Posts: 1854 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    As to fan control. Give me a version with the fans set to full and I'll add manual fan trimmer pots until software control is enabled.


    There is a reason why those fans can run that hard, and there is a reason why they fall back to full speed when no SW sets them lower for x seconds.

    -> putting them to fixed (lower) speed will be the death of your G5.....
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »16.09.17 - 14:25
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 862 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    If any of you find X1900GT cards in the US, I can ship them to Germany for about $23.00 via first class postage, or about $35 using priority mail.
    The card I own cost me $20.


    I think it's worth noting that "Mac Pro compatible" X1900 series cards won't run with dual/quad core G5 (at least with Open Firmware and OSX) unless they're properly flashed. And yes, I don't see a single one on eBay now so they do seem rare.
  • »16.09.17 - 14:33
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4744 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    koszer wrote:
    Quote:


    I think it's worth noting that "Mac Pro compatible" X1900 series cards won't run with dual/quad core G5 (at least with Open Firmware and OSX) unless they're properly flashed. And yes, I don't see a single one on eBay now so they do seem rare.


    There are three listed there right now, the cheapest is $55 with free shipping, and I fail to see what Mac Pro video cards has to do with anything, as our users aren't stupid enough to assume that Mac X64 cards will work in a G5, and PC cards are cheaper anyeay.
    Personally, I'd recommend a PC X1950XTX, but I'm unsure if you'd need an Apple firmware card in order to boot.
    One friend of mine has an Apple Nvidia 6600 in his system in order to get the system started, but others have told me that they are running Radeon HD cards by themselves.
    In any case, Apple X1900GT cards are NOT rare.
    Would you like me to post the listings?

    And, as to Kronos' suggestion that the fans couldn't be altered in the G5, I'd be will to experiment with that.
    Just give me a copy of the OS that is set to run the fans at full speed.


    [ Edited by Jim 16.09.2017 - 12:22 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »16.09.17 - 17:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    koszer
    Posts: 862 from 2004/2/8
    From: Poland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    There are three listed there right now, the cheapest is $55 with free shipping, and I fail to see what Mac Pro video cards has to do with anything, as our users aren't stupid enough to assume that Mac X64 cards will work in a G5, and PC cards are cheaper anyeay.



    ...and I'm pretty sure that most of (or maybe even all of) the "New Apple Mac G5 PCIe Dual/Quad Core PPC ATI Radeon X1900 GT" we can find on eBay for 60-70$ are just reflashed PC ones. And even if the card is a "prolonged" one (to fit in the mounting brackets of G5) I'd say it's been pulled from a Mac Pro, not a G5.
  • »16.09.17 - 19:51
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    Kronos
    Posts: 1854 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:


    There are three listed there right now, the cheapest is $55 with free shipping, and I fail to see what Mac Pro video cards has to do with anything,



    Tried various combinations in search and I found:

    - Mac Edition Apple G5 ATI Radeon X1900GT 256 at 69.75$ + 64.30$ shipping (+VAT when I'd try to get it out of the customs office)
    might be a reflashed PC card

    - some MacPro cards in Europe between 20€ and 129€ ("buy now" and finished auctions)

    - PC cards at around 10€

    So if you see cheap genuine G5 cards in the US they are most likely not offering intl. shipping.
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
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  • »16.09.17 - 20:45
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  • Jim
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    Jim
    Posts: 4744 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Again, three listed on eBay in the US, all appear to be genuine Apple G5 cards as the MacPro X1900 and most PC X1900 cards are dual slot cards.
    If you want to argue from a point of prejudice, by all means, it's your choice.

    But these ARE available, they are cheap, and I'm willing to ship any that US sellers won't.

    So your point is...'I want to be hard headed' I'd assume.

    Addendum - The first two cards are listed as shipping available to Europe, the third ships to Germany.

    Did you guys need more than one? 😁

    [ Edited by Jim 16.09.2017 - 16:51 ]
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »16.09.17 - 21:46
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    Kronos
    Posts: 1854 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    If you want to argue from a point of prejudice, by all means, it's your choice.

    .....

    So your point is...'I want to be hard headed' I'd assume.

    .....




    Just pointing out that these (for one reason or another) can't be found searching German ebay.

    ATM I'm not really interested in another G5 (pretty happy with my dual screen G4 setup) and if I ever was I'm might opt for the noOF/noOSX option.....
    --------------------- May the 4th be with you ------------------
    Mother Russia dance of the Zar, don't you know how lucky you are
  • »16.09.17 - 22:08
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4744 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:

    If you want to argue from a point of prejudice, by all means, it's your choice.

    .....

    So your point is...'I want to be hard headed' I'd assume.

    .....




    Just pointing out that these (for one reason or another) can't be found searching German ebay.

    ATM I'm not really interested in another G5 (pretty happy with my dual screen G4 setup) and if I ever was I'm might opt for the noOF/noOSX option.....


    Sorry, that was a little rude.
    I still get more use out of my MDD myself.
    And the quad G5 is only good for Linux (or worse yet, OSX).

    I think I've said before, I think the G4 is a perfectly fine MorphOS system. If it had gpu assisted video decoding, it would have no problem displaying HD video.
    As it is, 640x480 video still work on my system. And virtually everything I watch can be scaled to that.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »16.09.17 - 23:01
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1886 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    Jim schrieb:

    I think I've said before, I think the G4 is a perfectly fine MorphOS system. If it had gpu assisted video decoding, it would have no problem displaying HD video.
    As it is, 640x480 video still work on my system. And virtually everything I watch can be scaled to that.



    Plus JS JIT. These two things would speed up everyday usage of MorphOS rather dramatically.
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  • »16.09.17 - 23:06
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Jim
    Posts: 4744 from 2009/1/28
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    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim schrieb:

    I think I've said before, I think the G4 is a perfectly fine MorphOS system. If it had gpu assisted video decoding, it would have no problem displaying HD video.
    As it is, 640x480 video still work on my system. And virtually everything I watch can be scaled to that.



    Plus JS JIT. These two things would speed up everyday usage of MorphOS rather dramatically.



    Yes, I asked Mark about that, but I didn't get a response.
    That would be very useful.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »16.09.17 - 23:30
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