What would it take for MorphOS Prometheus support?
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    (A miracle, I know)

    I posted this over on Amiga.org, but have had no response yet.

    Is it just a basic software/driver issue, or is it something more fundamental in the design of Prometheus which means the existing CGX Voodoo3 driver won't support Prometheus?

    Would Prometheus.library have to be re-written from scratch to interface with the CGX api? Would it just be a case of amending the existing G-Rex Voodoo3 driver?

    I claim ignorance of these matters, but as I would like to run MorphOS through my Prometheus at some point (and I believe the MorphOS team have long ago dropped their previous plans to support it), I'd just like to know what the technical barriers are to this?

    Prometheus SDK is freely available, so is it just a case of someone with the coding ability finding the time?

    Was any beta development carried out?

    Thanks.
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  • »10.06.08 - 22:42
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1794 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    A miracle indeed.

    Code:
     Was any beta development carried out?


    Not really. I don't recall any core developers ever using a Prometheus board. There were some plans years ago, but they were dropped.
  • »11.06.08 - 08:51
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Strange... Crumb mentions in this thread (page 2) that a Prometheus driver is "almost finished" (although graphics card support is not working yet).

    Also, I understood one of the Prometheus devs was now part of the MorphOS dev team. Perhaps they can shed some light on what work would be required to implement support?
    Even if they do not want (or have time) to do the work themselves, the insight would be useful.

    Regards



    Rich

    [ Edited by boot_wb on 2008/6/11 9:04 ]
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  • »11.06.08 - 10:03
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1794 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    I don't know on what Crumb based this info. We did not touch any PowerUP related stuff in years.
  • »11.06.08 - 12:28
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 701 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    @jacadcaps

    The prometheus support is integrated and you can use MorphOS/G-Rex drivers that don't require DMA. GREX RTL8029 driver works perfectly on MorphOS if you use a Prometheus.

    I talked with Frank Mariak and got the impression current Voodoo3/Prometheus drivers only needed some work to make it work, but unfortunately Krashan sold his CSPPC many years ago.

    I think MorphOS doesn't try to initialize Voodoo3 when it's plugged in Prometheus.

    I would be willing to send you all the logs you need. Perhaps current users could make a small bounty to send MOS-Team hardware to improve the drivers.

    If G-REX RTL8029 driver works on Prometheus... it can't be so hard to fix the remaining bugs and make Voodoo3 driver work...

    Terratec128 should work on Prometheus too...

    Mediator4000 support shouldn't be very difficult as well (as it's not as crap as the A1200 model)

    Don't hesitate in contacting me if you need any log or information.

    [ Edited by Crumb on 2008/6/12 11:32 ]
  • »12.06.08 - 11:30
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Quote:

    I think MorphOS doesn't try to initialize Voodoo3 when it's plugged in Prometheus.



    Doesn't the Voodoo3 require ix86-bios-style initialisation? I assume there is a dummy initialisation routine to carry this out under G-rex, therefore perhaps it is just that this routine is specifically programmed for the G-rex.
    If this is the case, could we re-write this for the Prometheus relatively easily?

    We could use Krashan's input here to determine what the problem is - perhaps it would be relatively easy to fix, and it is just down to devs not having access to the hardware to be able to test possible solutions.
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  • »12.06.08 - 11:59
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 1794 from 2003/3/5
    From: Poland
    I suppose openpci drivers may work indeed, but that has nothing to do with CGX drivers which do not use openpci.
  • »12.06.08 - 14:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 701 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    @jacadcaps

    Prometheus has a native cybpci.library implementation included in MorphOS, it's not using openpci.library.

    I used GREX drivers, not OpenPCI ones.
  • »12.06.08 - 14:33
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 701 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    @boot_wb

    First of all Frank Mariak (or any developer with experience in graphic drivers and interest in classics) would need a Prometheus to test
  • »12.06.08 - 14:38
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    If he expresses an interest in doing this, I'd be happy to lend him mine.
    Alternatively, we could set up a bounty to buy one for him - they're only 99 GBP from Amigakit. I'm sure we can find 10 people willing to donate 10 GBP each for this.

    Your previous posts suggest you've discussed this with Frank. Could you propose this to him? I'd be happy to lend him my Prometheus for a while if it helps.

    Regards



    Rich

    [ Edited by boot_wb on 2008/6/12 13:52 ]
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  • »12.06.08 - 14:51
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    boot wb

    Frank is a serious dev with real world work. I'm sure any time he has for coding mos related sftwr will be for Mos 2.0 cultivation not some classic esoteric hardware that is over 10 yrs old.. Dont mean to sound harsh just we need any of the devs left working on serious projects not ancient amiga support imo
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  • »12.06.08 - 23:39
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    @Magnetic

    I appreciate that this is the case, hence I started this thread in the hope of eliciting information on what work would be required for Prometheus support.

    I realise that it is a long shot that any of the MOS devs would be interested in doing the work themselves, however if they are then I'd be happy to support that.

    I'm not holding any expectation of support for "ancient Amiga hardware" - I'm happy that MOSpup exists at all. But I would hope that some developers may be happy to spend a little time in discussion to help others understand the issues involved - perhaps even to throw us a rope in terms of developing support for these esoteric devices ourselves?

    Regards



    Rich
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  • »13.06.08 - 00:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 701 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    @magnetic

    Perhaps he likes to support old hardware:
    http://grex.cybergraphx.de/

    BTW, a Pegasos2 is also esoteric hardware, old (it's a very old cpu), slow (the memory buses are slower than anything produced now) and prone to burn the cpu card. Try to find replacement G4 CPU cards for your Pegasos2, you'll find CSPPC more easily.

    @boot_wb

    I think that Jacadcaps may get in touch with Frank more easily... I have interchanged in the past a pair of mails with Frank and Krashan but Prometheus support won't fix talking. G-Rex is Frank's baby, but Prometheus isn't so he may not feel the need of supporting it.
  • »13.06.08 - 09:29
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    If anyone is running an A4000D system with G-rex and voodoo3, please could they post bootlogs with the following debug options:

    HDebugFlags="Init Zorro PCI"
    QDebugFlags="Init EmulMapping MMU"
    EDebugFlags="Init InitResident PCI LoadSeg"

    There is a similar bootlog for an A4000D and Prometheus here, so this will allow comparison between the two systems - it could be useful in identifying what the differences are, and hence what causes the booting process to hang.

    Thanks :-)

    [ Edited by boot_wb on 2008/6/14 13:10 ]
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  • »14.06.08 - 14:05
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Copied over from thread on Amiga.org

    Quote:

    Quote:


    platon42 wrote:
    AFAIK there is support for Prometheus already in MorphOS Classic, but it is pretty much deserted as AFAIK no developer has a Prometheus anymore. It is also limited to non-DMA cards without the firmware upgrade and the latter needs an adapted prometheus library (exists), but also modifications in the Prometheus support in MorphOS (non-existent).

    I wouldn't be too confident about somebody taking up development in that direction.


    Hi Chris, it's true that there is some support for Prometheus under MOS, for example RTL8029 network cards work using the G-rex driver. The problem is that graphics cards don't work - the booting process hangs with a Voodoo card installed in the Prometheus - even when a supported graphics card (such as PicassoIV) is installed aswell.

    I realise that it is unlikely that any devs would be interested in solving the problem, but hopefully by encouraging some discussion on the subject someone may become interested, or at least the root of the problem may be identified.

    We have a good debug log of the boot sequence with Voodoo3/Prometheus installed, I'm hoping that by comparing this to a similarly detailed bootlog with Voodoo3/G-rex installed some light may be shed on what is preventing the console from initialising using Voodoo3 in Prometheus.

    I'm also willing to do any testing myself, or indeed to lend my Prometheus to any dev who may be interested in taking up the challenge.

    If you have any contact with Frank Mariak or Krashan (don't know his real name), perhaps you could point them in the direction of this thread - or the thread over on Morphzone.

    I'll copy this post (and relevant subsequent posts) over to the Morphzone thread to try to keep the discussion together in one place.
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  • »14.06.08 - 15:54
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    zukow
    Posts: 498 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Krashan said that he has no time and no working prometheus (He sold his a4000 many years ago).

    ps. hal should be rewritten to support prometheus dma so sending logs is unnecessary

    [ Edited by zukow on 2008/6/14 17:25 ]
  • »14.06.08 - 17:22
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 701 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    @zukow

    I know that Krashan sold his CSPPC at least 5 years ago...

    About the HAL: as long as non-DMA cards work (read RTL8029 and Voodoo3) I'll be more than happy :-)
  • »14.06.08 - 22:52
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Painkiller
    Posts: 128 from 2007/11/19
    From: Nokia, Funland
    Why not setup a bounty? Just to get support for Voodoo and maybe RTL8139

    Prometheus is the only PCI busboard that is readily available for A4000/A3000.
  • »12.01.09 - 20:08
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