MorphOS 2.0 On PPC Amiga's?
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 703 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    Quote:

    Who tell me that if you run AmigaOS 4.0 on a Blizzard or CyberStorm PPC even at 240Mhz, it will be slow I guess....


    I can tell you that both OS4 and MOS run quite faster than OS3.x on my CSPPC.
  • »15.11.07 - 13:56
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Sir_Lucas
    Posts: 112 from 2006/4/23
    From: Poland
    @mike-

    Thanx ;)
  • »15.11.07 - 16:16
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Sir_Lucas
    Posts: 112 from 2006/4/23
    From: Poland
    @Crumb

    To tell you the truth I have the same impression concernig MorphOS 1.4.5 on my A4000T with CSPPC. It's much faster comparing to 3.9

    I cannot say anything about OS4 as I don't have it.
    I haven't even seen it live in action. Therefore I cannot say anything
    about it.

    But it would be very nice to run MorphOS 2.0 on Classic Amigas even without all these eycandy features, but with new kernel, HDConfing and built-in TCP/IP stack.

    Just a thought ;)
  • »15.11.07 - 16:23
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    mike-
    Posts: 21 from 2007/11/14
    From: Alpha Centauri
    Quote:


    Sir_Lucas wrote:
    Thanx ;)

    No thank you =)

    Quote:


    I can tell you that both OS4 and MOS run quite faster than OS3.x on my CSPPC.


    Cool. Now if we got Mos2.0 to the Amiga, would it be hard to write drivers for the mediator? I guess the grex would need a brush over too but i hear the mediator is a b**ch. And considering that's the only pci interface available, its sort of needed. And what about mediator drivers for 1.4.5? Why didnt that happen?


    [ Edited by mike- on 2007/11/15 17:29 ]
  • »15.11.07 - 16:28
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Sir_Lucas
    Posts: 112 from 2006/4/23
    From: Poland
    @mike-

    As I've heard you have to have documentaion of the Mediator and AFAIK, Mos team does not have it.

    In order to run Mos on Classic Amigas you don't have to have G-rex. All you need is CSPPC/BPPC and one of the GFX cards mentioned (e.g. BVisionPPC or CVisionPPC or CVision64/64/3d) on the Mos Classic page. G-rex isn't obligatory, it is not a must.
  • »15.11.07 - 16:36
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  • Caterpillar
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    mike-
    Posts: 21 from 2007/11/14
    From: Alpha Centauri
    Quote:


    Sir_Lucas wrote:
    @Crumb

    To tell you the truth I have the same impression concernig MorphOS 1.4.5 on my A4000T with CSPPC. It's much faster comparing to 3.9


    Interesting, from what i hear mos is smaller yea, Stian over at amigaweb has mos and os4 on and amigaone and a peg. He said something that resembled that too.
    Quote:


    But it would be very nice to run MorphOS 2.0 on Classic Amigas even without all these eycandy features, but with new kernel, HDConfing and built-in TCP/IP stack.


    *dribbles* A super cut down version with an option to turn on/off the candy would be nice. It's not like i care about eyecandy anyway, my amigas boot to cli and my main computer uses gnome (not that its al too cut down but) and my poor poor windows installation is about as cut down as a windows can get. It's really not the gui that counts, its the functionality, atleast for me it is. ( AND A FORK() )
  • »15.11.07 - 16:38
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  • Caterpillar
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    mike-
    Posts: 21 from 2007/11/14
    From: Alpha Centauri
    Quote:


    Sir_Lucas wrote:

    As I've heard you have to have documentaion of the Mediator and AFAIK, Mos team does not have it.



    Steal it! :P
    Quote:


    In order to run Mos on Classic Amigas you don't have to have G-rex. All you need is CSPPC/BPPC and one of the GFX cards mentioned (e.g. BVisionPPC or CVisionPPC or CVision64/64/3d) on the Mos Classic page. G-rex isn't obligatory, it is not a must.


    It's not a requirement, but it sure as shit it trivial, i have an offer to get a cvppc but it'll cost me. But i'd rather have an as fast and mean as they come gfx card stuffed in the pci ports. As the cvppc would just act as a rather expensive scan doubler. And i couldnt get a hold of a voodoo 5 6000 :P Which probably isnt supported anyway anyhow.

    [ Edited by mike- on 2007/11/15 17:45 ]
  • »15.11.07 - 16:44
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Sir_Lucas
    Posts: 112 from 2006/4/23
    From: Poland
    @mike-

    If you have the chance to buy CSPPC don't hesitate, just buy it. If I were to buy it once again, I'd do it at once.

    CVPPC does not act as a scandoubler, it's a GFX card, which allows you to run GFX modes. It will not let display AGA.

    BTW, AGA is not supported by MOS 1.4.5, as it is written on the MOS PUP page.
  • »15.11.07 - 16:55
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  • Caterpillar
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    mike-
    Posts: 21 from 2007/11/14
    From: Alpha Centauri
    Quote:


    Sir_Lucas wrote:
    @mike-

    If you have the chance to buy CSPPC don't hesitate, just buy it. If I were to buy it once again, I'd do it at once.
    .

    I have the CPPC, just not the Cybervision ppc. Which is also expensive, but well sought after.
    Quote:


    CVPPC does not act as a scandoubler, it's a GFX card, which allows you to run GFX modes. It will not let display AGA.
    .

    The cybervision ppc will pass the aga to the screen.
    Quote:


    BTW, AGA is not supported by MOS 1.4.5, as it is written on the MOS PUP page
    .

    You guys are very confusing, you know that :P



    [ Edited by mike- on 2007/11/15 19:35 ]
  • »15.11.07 - 18:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2627 from 2003/2/24
    The Amiga is dead. Long live MorphOS!

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »15.11.07 - 19:34
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  • Caterpillar
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    mike-
    Posts: 21 from 2007/11/14
    From: Alpha Centauri
    Quote:


    takemehomegrandma wrote:
    The Amiga is dead. Long live MorphOS!

    :-)




    My a1200, 600, and 4000 ( well thats in repairs so partially dead i'll give you that :) is all working so it cant be dead!

    The modern Amiga may be a lost cause mostly due to the way both management and some of the users are constantly f***ing each other over (times 2) any and every which way even remotely possible... from a distance...

    But the reason were all here in the first place is the Classic Amiga. And thats why most of us still are hanging around here. Commodore Amiga is sadly dead, resurrecting that with todays sorry excuse for a management isn't possible. Firstly no one trusts them, secondly they chose a scoundrel and a crook for a business partner, who's as full of hot air and smelly gases as they come... The reason things have turned out the way they have as i see it is because someone let a complete moron and amateur without either the proper qualifications nor the business sense required to do something like this drive your fancy new airbus a380, drunk, without a license .
    8-)

    Mind you, this is the conclusion i've drawn of whats become available to the public...

    [ Edited by mike- on 2007/11/15 21:57 ]
  • »15.11.07 - 20:02
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    AmigaMancer
    Posts: 265 from 2005/8/25
    Quote:

    BTW, AGA is not supported by MOS 1.4.5, as it is written on the MOS PUP page.

    You guys are very confusing, you know that :P

    They are not. I think you are the confused one.


    @jacadcaps
    Quote:

    Support for any new classic Amiga hw is not planned.

    Sorry to hear this... :-(
    That's not what i have being reading on a number of threads in here. I remember, for example, a "facts about mos2.0" type of thread that a version of MOS2.0 is planned and that it will be commercial or something like that.


    @Velcro_SP
    Quote:

    I don't have a personal stake in it, not having a PPC-equipped classic, but I think the classics should be supported if it is not too much trouble to do so.

    I'm not a coder, but due to the MOS design, i don't think that it is much of a trouble. Afaik, only a new HAL is required and maybe some revised drivers.


    [ Edited by AmigaMancer on 2007/11/16 0:34 ]
    Amiga 1200 user.
  • »15.11.07 - 21:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2627 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    My a1200, 600, and 4000 ( well thats in repairs so partially dead i'll give you that :) is all working so it cant be dead!


    Last time I checked, the Power LED's of my old equipment in the closet are still shining bright whenever powered up, so by the same logic the C64 (and even the Vic20) is still very alive and kicking! ;-)

    Quote:

    But the reason were all here in the first place is the Classic Amiga.


    The Amiga is where we all *came from*, that's true...

    Quote:

    And thats why most of us still are hanging around here.


    I think the reason to why most of us are hanging around here is because we like the way MorphOS turned into an *extension* of the old Amiga; building something *new* and *improved* upon the old structure, a more modern OS for more modern hardware. I *think* (but I could be wrong of course) that most of us hanging around here is here because we are hoping for some kind of *future* for the MorphOS platform! That's why I think keeping the support for Amiga HW in MorphOS is bad. There is nothing "future" about that IMHO, hence I think it's a waste of time. Breaking free of the old legacies and dependencies was one of the main goals with the initial MorphOS developments. I think that was a good move, and it happened for a reason! :-)

    Have you seen this thread BTW? It's about keeping the old wheels turning, and I think it can be appealing to the Amiga owners still using their machines actively:
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=24730&forum=2

    MorphOS however, should focus elsewhere, on *new* developments. All IMHO of course...

    Quote:

    Commodore Amiga is sadly dead, resurrecting that with todays sorry excuse for a management isn't possible.


    I totally agree with you about the "Amiga Management" part, but when it comes to "Amiga(TM) Resurrection" I don't think that has ever been the goal with MorphOS, rather building something of their own, something new and improved, but *in the spirit* of the past (in combination with an expressed priority of *backwards compatibility*, which is something *totally unique* among all "Amiga NG" flavors).

    Breaking up, taking everything that's good with you, and then head on with it to even higher grounds. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think MorphOS is about retro and resurrection of the old, but rather a way (or a hope for a way at least) for those *not* interested in retro nostalgia to create a *future* instead.

    OK, the road has been kind of rocky this far, and the project stumbled severely (through the crashed funding a few years back), but I don't think the *ambition* has changed. That's why we today (for instance) see a 3D-HW driven GUI for modern hardware instead of (for instance) Mediator support for Amigas. In my world, this is a *good* thing, *not* a bad thing. When resources (time, money, blood, sweat and tears ;-)) are limited, it becomes *even more* important to *focus*, and old Amiga HW would be a *diversion*!

    Quote:

    Firstly no one trusts them, secondly they chose a scoundrel and a crook for a business partner, who's as full of hot air and smelly gases as they come...


    Hmm, that description fits so many of the partners, so just for the record, which one (or which ones) are you talking about? ;-)

    Quote:

    The reason things have turned out the way they have as i see it is because someone let a complete moron and amateur without either the proper qualifications nor the business sense required to do something like this drive your fancy new airbus a380, drunk, without a license .
    8-)


    Well, that moron and amateur is not only unqualified, he is also delirious, since he *falsely believes* he is driving a fancy new Airbus A380, hence he is proclaiming to the world that the aircraft he is driving is far better than Boeing 747 (Mac OS X), which would have been true, if it wouldn't have been for the fact that the aircraft he is *actually* driving is a Bombardier Dash 8... ;-)

    The thing is that Dash 8's have a habit of hitting the ground from time to time, as recent history shows. Hard! ;-) Question is - With that in mind, does anyone *really* want to be on board an Amiga Aircraft, or even be *associated* with that brand? ;-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »15.11.07 - 22:40
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 703 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    @mike-
    http://powerup.morphos-team.net/

    Graphics Cards
    Voodoo 3 / 4 / 5 (with GRex)
    SiS6326 and SiS305 (with GRex)
    Permedia2 & Permedia2V (either BVisionPPC, CyberVisionPPC or GRex)
    CyberVision 64/3D(68K driver)
    CyberVision 64(68K driver)
    Picasso IV(68K driver)
    AGA chipset is not supported.


    I doubt MOS team supports Mediator. They have a Prometheus driver almost finished but it's not working yet with graphic cards, so don't hold your breath for a Mediator driver. Of course, you could give away ClassicPPC machines with Mediator to various developers and supply them all the register documentation of Mediator4000 and then you may be lucky...
  • »16.11.07 - 00:58
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  • MorphOS Developer
    CISC
    Posts: 617 from 2005/8/27
    From: the land with ...
    Quote:

    @jacadcaps
    Quote:

    Support for any new classic Amiga hw is not planned.

    Sorry to hear this...
    That's not what i have being reading on a number of threads in here. I remember, for example, a "facts about mos2.0" type of thread that a version of MOS2.0 is planned and that it will be commercial or something like that.


    Read the sentence more carefully...


    - CISC
  • »16.11.07 - 07:13
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Sir_Lucas
    Posts: 112 from 2006/4/23
    From: Poland
    @mike-

    There is already a similar thread.

    Check this out:
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5288&forum=16
  • »16.11.07 - 09:02
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Chain-Q
    Posts: 338 from 2003/10/12
    From: 1 AU, EU, DE/HU
    Let me clean this up a bit. Not like i'm in charge to make any official statements, but for easier understanding.:

    1., The fate of MorphOS 2.0 for PowerUP is still undecided, and depends the amount of donations for 1.4.5. *IF* it will be done, it probably will come with similar terms as the 1.4.5 is available for PowerUP right now. That means, no official purchaseable CD-ROM or anything, but a simple CD image downloadable from the PowerUP site, without any kind of official support. But again, this is still uncertain, for now. And again, as it was stated already, it won't be released together with Pegasos or Efika version, but some time later, if at all.

    2., Even if it will be released, it won't contain any new hardware drivers compared to what's available for 1.4.5 right now. That also means all frequently asked drivers, like 3D for Permedia, FastATA and Mediator (and others) too. *NO* support (at least official support, from MorphOS Team) for these, sorry. On the other hand it's planned have all additional tools, utilitities, and as many advancements inside the system, as possible, from the Pegasos and Efika versions. (And yes, people expecting less eyecandy are probably correct.)

    Hope the above helps for better understanding of the situation for some people. And no, asking the mentioned frequently asked things a few more times won't help, sorry.
    [.PegasosII/G4.:.Efika.:.Amiga2000/060.]
    [.Free Pascal Compiler MorphOS Port.]
    [.Hosting AmigaSpirit.hu.]
  • »16.11.07 - 09:29
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Sir_Lucas
    Posts: 112 from 2006/4/23
    From: Poland
    @Chain-Q

    I am quite familiar with all that and most of the things mentioned by you have been already discussed previously in numerous threads.

    Therefore I'd like the moderators to link your utterance in order not to start similar threads in the future.
    Some kind of FAQ, would be nice. Is it possible? This way we would save time and unnecessary questions.

    As for 3D drivers for the Permedia, there is a bounty.
  • »16.11.07 - 10:15
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Phantom
    Posts: 381 from 2004/9/7
    This is the biggest mistake in the Amiga industry.

    Sorry to hear that, but to launch AmigaOS 4.0 on Classic PPC Amigas (PPC? What and where I can find any?) is a bad act, or you can say, it's a move for those that already have a PPC board, the others can go to ****....

    Yes, that's true. You give to people AmigaOS 4.0 for their machine, but where are the PPC boards? To find one nowadays, is like trying to find and look Mars through binoculars!!!

    So for me, and many other people, we can stuck with 3.9 you will say. It's quite fair, don't you think?

    And why to buy A Sam440ep for this tremendous price? Over a 500 euros for this very-limited board? To run what? AmigaOS 4.0? Hahaha... that's ridiculous.

    Yesterday I checked the prices of Amiga hardware on an Amiga Format magazine (10 years ago), they are almost the same as they are now. That's also crazy.

    That's only my opinion, but I think that Amiga is not for everyone. And that's why I am very sad about what is happening.
  • »16.11.07 - 13:59
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  • Caterpillar
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    mike-
    Posts: 21 from 2007/11/14
    From: Alpha Centauri
    @takemegrandma
    Those Dash 8 thingies i think are the ones grounded by SAS now for crashing all over the place :>

    But yea, i was thinking about this last night, as i was going to sleep *who on earth, with sanity intact, would sign a contract like that and expect things to turn out right*

    I mean.

    1) The contract doesnt specify any concrete date for delivery.
    Which means the that if, lets say we were building a 1x1m dog house, for a poodle, one could basically use 50 years and the guy waiting for the dog house couldnt say or do shit. ( except bend over like bethoven )

    2)
    And to top it off, If in those 50 years, the company handing out and signing the contract, goes bankrupt, all rights of that costumer is automatically handed to the guys taking the contract, which makes its a waiting game... ( which by all means, the guys building the dog house won ) Thus they now own the dog house and all the poo that goes along with it...


    So now they are driving a Dash 8, which they think is an a380, with a uncomplete dog house in the back, full of poo, crashing all over the place, while basically lying out their arse, trying to play big boy/bully in the yard, signing contracts they cant complete ( kent event). While everyone that once believed in'em has long since made their way out, trough the cabin window, without a shoot i might add. Because most people with half a brain that's been followed this mess know knows what's been going on for the past 8 years.

    (might as well make it : flying a uncomplete dog house full of poo which they thing is an a380)

    3)
    The guys signing the contract has gone 90 extra miles, and has done what amiga hasnt, made the os, secured the hardware, ported it to mac ( probably for development ). While ainc is going around excerting pressure on a already upset community ( the bbrv and aw.net thing ) that most of all wants to see the current ceo step down ( preferably off a bulding ) and sell/hand over the remaining bits to someone that actually cares. Which happens to be the community them selves.


    As far as listening to the community, they fail there as well.

    (right there was more i wanted vented but i cant remember what it was)


    I changed the article a bit, ( again ) and hope we all agree now.

    Quote:


    @ AmigaMancer
    They are not. I think you are the confused one.
    .[/quite]
    Correct...
  • »16.11.07 - 14:17
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    mike-
    Posts: 21 from 2007/11/14
    From: Alpha Centauri
    Quote:


    Phantom wrote:
    This is the biggest mistake in the Amiga industry.

    Sorry to hear that, but to launch AmigaOS 4.0 on Classic PPC Amigas (PPC? What and where I can find any?) is a bad act, or you can say, it's a move for those that already have a PPC board, the others can go to ****....

    Yes, that's true. You give to people AmigaOS 4.0 for their machine, but where are the PPC boards? To find one nowadays, is like trying to find and look Mars through binoculars!!!

    So for me, and many other people, we can stuck with 3.9 you will say. It's quite fair, don't you think?

    And why to buy A Sam440ep for this tremendous price? Over a 500 euros for this very-limited board? To run what? AmigaOS 4.0? Hahaha... that's ridiculous.

    Yesterday I checked the prices of Amiga hardware on an Amiga Format magazine (10 years ago), they are almost the same as they are now. That's also crazy.

    That's only my opinion, but I think that Amiga is not for everyone. And that's why I am very sad about what is happening.


    Well i think the hardware has now ( i think ) become more expensive then it was.

    Actually think i saw some PPC cards in the in the vicinity of beetlejuice just the other day.

    But getting the OS out there is one thing, i mean, atleast people can crack hack patch the shit out of it to get it running on, well any ppc hardware now, and we can only hyperion has made this easy. Because if else, it wont sell very well will it.

    The sam440ep, currently doing 800 mips on crux ppc, 1100 less then my duron 900 mhz box... ( which has sustained alteast one hit from lightning trough the years )
    The price might go down as they get a few orders, i hope.
  • »16.11.07 - 14:25
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    Phantom
    Posts: 381 from 2004/9/7
    There are rumors, that they succeeded running AmigaOS 4.0 on a PowerMac, is that true?
  • »16.11.07 - 14:54
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2627 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    Phantom wrote:
    There are rumors, that they succeeded running AmigaOS 4.0 on a PowerMac, is that true?


    I would guess it's true. After all OS4 runs on the Pegasos (and the Efika as well I think, done in the same way), but it's one thing to "hack-start" an OS and bringing the basic core things up and running, and another thing to have a complete fine-tuned driver package for all of the components and devices on the board in question. The latter is what a consumer expects. How much fun is there when you have no sound, no network, no USB, etc, etc? I sincerely doubt a complete package like that exists for Mac...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »16.11.07 - 17:04
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    mike-
    Posts: 21 from 2007/11/14
    From: Alpha Centauri
    Quote:


    takemehomegrandma wrote:

    Phantom wrote:
    There are rumors, that they succeeded running AmigaOS 4.0 on a PowerMac, is that true?



    I guess its true, acube sent some photos of it to herrn. bill mc. there somewhere in here http://news.justia.com/cases/370498/ somewhere.


    Quote:


    I would guess it's true. After all OS4 runs on the Pegasos (and the Efika as well I think, done in the same way), but it's one thing to "hack-start" an OS and bringing the basic core things up and running, and another thing to have a complete fine-tuned driver package for all of the components and devices on the board in question. The latter is what a consumer expects. How much fun is there when you have no sound, no network, no USB, etc, etc? I sincerely doubt a complete package like that exists for Mac...


    That sounds like my hackintosh experience. Gittery audio, no wlan, cpu running at 100% when you least expect it. apps not working and crashes everywhere. But fun while it lasted.
  • »17.11.07 - 12:40
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    TrevorDick
    Posts: 127 from 2005/10/12
    From: Wellington
    Quote:

    Who tell me that if you run AmigaOS 4.0 on a Blizzard or CyberStorm PPC even at 240Mhz, it will be slow I guess....

    I can confirm that OS4.0 on a classic Amiga equipped with a CS PPC & CV PPC g/fx card appears to run OK. IMHO it feels a little smoother in operation than 1.4.5 PowerUp for classic Amigas which I have setup on another Amiga 4000D. As a test I played a commercial DVD through DvPlayer (DVD attached to the CS SCSI i/f) and it was almost watchable (some sound skipping).

    TrevorDick
  • »23.11.07 - 08:53
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