@Andreas_Wolf

Well, maybe I read too much into the statement: "The move follows Intel's decision to cancel plans to release new Atom chips".

But if this was to be true, it would in its extension mean a shift of focus in the same way as NXP cancelled their plans for upgraded e6500 cores and soc's, while continuing to develop their ARM based family of offerings, i.e. not meaning that they cancels PPC over night, but perhaps signals a long term intention in this direction, while continuing to offer products based on existing IP as long as customers are interested and there is profit to be made.

But indeed this was the first and only time I heard the above about the Atom, and maybe I misinterpreted it.

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They announced that Atom will be discontinued in April.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3063508/components/intel-is-on-the-verge-of-exiting-the-smartphone-and-tablet-markets-after-cutting-atom-chips.html

A few days ago they also discontinued Core M branding too.

> http://www.pcworld.com/article/3063508/components/intel-is-on-the-verge-of-exiting-the-smartphone-and-tablet-markets-after-cutting-atom-chips.html

4 days later:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3064716/mobile/intels-atom-architecture-to-live-on-despite-smartphone-chip-cancellations.html

> they also discontinued Core M branding too.

Except for Core m3, that is.

> NXP cancelled their plans for upgraded e6500 [...] soc's

Yes, I think this was the terminal breath:

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=7001&start=910

> continuing to offer products based on existing IP as long as customers
> are interested and there is profit to be made.

...and as long as their longevity program is in place for the respective product:

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=11696&start=70

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x86 doesn't scale downwards, but ARM doesn't scale upwards. Both have tried to nibble at the territory of the other for ten years now, without success.

I'm still waiting for evidence of where ARM has successfully moved onto the desktop or laptop arenas. Or even game consoles.

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Performance wise it's there already, though no (or very few) devices has been made for desktop/laptop markets.

There are much info in this thread, if you care enough to scan through it...

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As I'd said earlier, even the highest end ARM cpu (which no longer has either the advantages of low power and low fan/passive cooling), isn't even in the same ballpark as a four year old i7 -- so much so that there has never been any real point in comparing them. And that isn't even taking any of the chipset advantages into account.

A seven watt CPU from 2016 can't compete with a seventy watt CPU from 2016. It's just physics.

[ Edited by KennyR 05.09.2016 - 02:29 ]

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The lack of success of Intel processors in low-power consumer devices has little to do with technology and a lot to do with business strategy. There have been Intel-based smartphones that were competitive in terms of performance as well as battery life. But, offering more of the same is just not good enough to compete in this space. There is a reason why Freescale gave up on smartphones and tablets years ago...

Unless Intel can offer either clearly superior performance or substantially lower pricing, phone manufacturers have little interest to buy Intel chips when they can buy from Qualcomm or Samsung instead. Nobody is particularly keen to see Intel dominate smartphones in the same way they do desktop computers and laptops. If Microsoft Windows had not utterfy failed on smartphones, Intel may have had a shot but we know how that worked out.

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How do you define success? Nintendo´s upcoming NX "game console" is said to use ARM chips.

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Patents issued for that "console" make it look more like a handheld device.

>> Nintendo´s upcoming NX "game console" is said to use ARM chips.

> Patents issued for that "console" make it look more like a handheld device.

A handheld game console, then :-)

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Seem inevitable, doesn't it?
Why have a bulky console when everything can be packaged in a much smaller device?

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Because the bulky console will pump 4k graphics in high detail at high fps, and the smaller device is good for candy crush.

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ARM v8 is an architecture, you can scale it however you like.
See my previous comment about Fujitsu. They're putting ARM in a top end supercomputer. That's not going to be a mobile processor. There's numerous other companies working on big server and networking chips.

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ARM hasn't even tried to get into the desktop market. It's a small market (yes, really), and there's really big, aggressive competitor.
ARM is however going after servers, and HPC. It's not so x86 centric, and these days they're getting very concerned about power.
They're also more concerned about throughput than single threaded performance.

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The Samsung A15 Chromebook was the top selling laptop on Amazon for months.
Intel pushed back there but this has just been announced:

http://liliputing.com/2016/07/acer-chromebook-13-mediatek-mt8173-processor-coming-soon.html


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Yes. It's pretty impressive what you can do when you lift the limits:

https://www.top500.org/news/chinese-chipmaker-unveils-speedy-64-core-arm-processor/

Its kind of ironic that Intel is canceling the lowest power Atoms.
I'm just finding devices using them that perform surprisingly well.
I gave my niece a dirt cheap 8.9" Windows 10 laptop/tablet that she absolutely loves as she can carry it anywhere and it supports standard desktop software.
Frankly, having used ARM set top boxes, phones, and tablets, I'm not that impressed with the quality of the software available under Android or Linux.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A9
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A9X
> [...] A9 is dual-core at 1.85 GHz clock rate. [...] The new core is named Twister.

Introduced 5 weeks ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A10_Fusion

A10 is quad-core at 2.34 GHz clock rate (for the 2 "big" cores). The new "big" core is named Hurricane, while the new "small" core is named Zephyr.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10685/the-iphone-7-and-iphone-7-plus-review
http://www.linleygroup.com/newsletters/newsletter_detail.php?num=5606


Edit: added info about "small" core

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 21.10.2016 - 12:03 ]

>>>> Nintendo´s upcoming NX "game console" is said to use ARM chips.

>>> Patents issued for that "console" make it look more like a handheld device.

>> A handheld game console, then :-)

> Seem inevitable, doesn't it? Why have a bulky console when everything can be
> packaged in a much smaller device?

"Nintendo Switch is a hybrid device; the Switch console is a tablet-like portable console, which can be inserted into a docking station attached to a television to use it as a home console. Despite this characteristic, Nintendo still markets the Switch as primarily being a home console rather than a portable. [...] Nintendo Switch is designed as a hybrid device which can operate as both a handheld video game console and a home video game console [...]. Although it is a hybrid device, a Nintendo spokesperson stated that Switch was "a home gaming system first and foremost""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Switch

...and, with regard to the title of this thread:

"Nintendo Switch is powered by the performance of the custom Tegra processor."
https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/10/20/nintendo-switch/

http://arstechnica.co.uk/business/2016/10/qualcomm-to-buy-nxp-semiconductor/

NXP worth more than ARM?

Au revoir PowerPC......

> First numbers for the X-Gene 3 place it at Xeon performance levels.

X-Gene future may just have become somewhat uncertain:

"MACOM intends to divest the well-positioned but non-strategic Compute business within the first 100 days of closing. [...] MACOM expects to improve the profitability of AppliedMicro by divesting the Compute business [...] MACOM intends to divest AppliedMicro’s well-positioned Compute business within 100 days from closing the transaction, as the business does not strategically align with MACOM’s long-term focus. AppliedMicro has been exploring strategic options for the Compute business and there is known strategic interest among several potential buyers and investors. MACOM will continue to support Compute customers and partners during this transition."
https://www.apm.com/news/macom-announces-definitive-agreement-to-acquire-appliedmicro/
https://www.macom.com/about/news-and-events/press-release-archive/row-col1/news--event-archive/macom-announces-definitive-agr-4

Regarding the Embedded Processing business (which the PPC-based SoCs and the ARM-based HeliX SoCs belong to), page 11 of this presentation reads like MACOM is going to keep it ("Solid Cash Flow Business"), as opposed to the Compute business comprised of X-Gene ("Active Sale Process to Divest").
As for how they could sell the X-Gene line but keep the HeliX line, this is somewhat of a mystery to me considering both lines are based on the same core IP (Potenza).

John Croteau, MACOM president and CEO, on the other hand has to say:
"the embedded PowerPC part of the portfolio may be part of the divestiture; it may not be. Depends which buyer, frankly. It’s a cash cow either way, to be honest."

Where would this leave the embedded ARM part (HeliX) of the Embedded Processing portfolio?

Statement from 6th December:
"employees working on Connectivity or embedded PowerPC products will continue performing their roles. Employees working on ARM-based server products may be tied to any ARM-based Compute business divestiture. There are a number of “shared” employees working on both Connectivity and ARM products. [...] AppliedMicro and MACOM management will work to identify the skills, experience, strengths and weaknesses of each of the shared employees [...] in order to determine which business group they should be assigned to post-closing. [...] MACOM currently plans to maintain and support our embedded PowerPC products following divestiture of the ARM-based Compute business, including sustaining PowerPC engineering, applications engineering and QA. MACOM and AppliedMicro management will work together to identify the individuals to be assigned to these ongoing efforts. These plans could change depending on the buyer of the ARM-based Compute business."
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/711065/000119312516786489/d306596d425.htm
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/711065/000119312516786496/d301947d425.htm

Statement from 26th January by John Croteau:
"MACOM plans to promptly engage with previously identified potential buyers toward a near-term divestment of AppliedMicro’s well-positioned Compute business. As previously stated, this portion of the business does not strategically align with our long-term product focus, but we feel confident a successful transaction can be consummated."
https://www.apm.com/news/macom-successfully-completes-acquisition-of-appliedmicro/
https://www.macom.com/about/news-and-events/press-release-archive/row-col1/news--event-archive/macom-successfully-completes-a-1

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 01.12.2018 - 21:32 ]

Update:

> in terms of 64-bit ARMv8 (AArch64) cores, there is announced so far: [...]

In terms of 64-bit ARMv8 (AArch64) cores/microarchitectures, there exists or has been announced so far:

- Cortex-A35, Cortex-A53, Cortex-A57, Cortex A-72 and Cortex-A73 from ARM Ltd.
- Denver and Denver2 from nVidia
- Potenza, Potenza+ and Potenza++ from Applied Micro
- ThunderX and ThunderX2 from Cavium
- Cyclone, Typhoon, Twister, Hurricane and Zephyr from Apple
- Vulcan from Broadcom (probably cancelled)
- K12 from AMD
- Kryo 100, Kryo 200, Kryo 280 and Falkor (new) from Qualcomm
- Xiaomi FTC660 and Xiaomi FTC661 from Phytium
- Mongoose M1 and Mongoose M2 from Samsung


Edit: added Kryo 280
Edit2: added Mongoose M2

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 30.03.2017 - 00:44 ]

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- You missed the A35 and the A32 (though the A32 is a 32-bit only v8).


Qualcomm are going after Intel with their server chip. Unlike the others, they're going straight to a leading edge process, they're starting at 10nm a year before Intel.


In other news Windows 10 will run on ARM, complete with x86 emulator. ARM is heading back to the desktop!

[ Edited by minator 09.12.2016 - 19:08 ]

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X86 emulation via an ARM processor?
Sounds ugly.
Will the decedents of the processors in the Acorn RISC Machine ever make it back to the desktop?
Anybody's guess, but the real question is will they be competitive?

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No different to running 68k binaries on PPC with Trance really.

Photoshop works great.

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Pretty big difference, Nick.
The PPCs we run Trance on run many times faster than a 68K processor.
The ARM processors will be running at comparable speeds (or slower) to an X64.
Which, with the overhead, will mean X86 apps will run slowly on ARM.

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Have you seen the video?

It's like it's running native ARM code. It's very impressive indeed.

https://youtu.be/A_GlGglbu1U

[ Edited by Intuition 09.12.2016 - 19:47 ]

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Admittedly, pretty neat.
Surprisingly fast for emulation.
I guess I no longer have to worry about Intel's cancellation of the latest Atom cpus.
If X86 can be emulated this well on an open platform...