Another ARM net-book... ARM touch-net-book
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    What an insightful thread. I struggle to understand every update, and its possible implications.

    What would the chip engineers think if they red this? Perhaps they would be surprised by the interest that their creatures still spark in some people...
  • »18.08.10 - 13:05
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    boot_wb
    Posts: 874 from 2007/4/9
    From: Kingston upon ...
    Thanks Andreas,

    It sometimes reads as if you're the only person following/contributing to these threads, but it makes for intersting reading (to me at least), so please do not stop :-)
    www.hullchimneyservices.co.uk

    UI: Powerbook 5,6 (1.67GHz, 128MB VRam): OS3.1, OSX 10.5.8
    HTPC: Mac Mini G4 (1,5GHz, 64MB VRam): OS3.1 (ZVNC)
    Audiophile: Efika 5200b (SB Audigy): OS3.1 (VNC + Virtual Monitor)

    Windows free since 2011!
  • »18.08.10 - 14:15
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12113 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Perhaps they would be surprised by the interest that
    > their creatures still spark in some people...

    Why "still"?
  • »18.08.10 - 19:51
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12113 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    >> According to Lauterbach, the APM83290 has a PPC450 core

    > In contrast to Lauterbach, a new edition of Wikipedia's PPC4xx article
    > claims that Titan was designed "using the PowerPC 440 core spec".
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_400#Titan
    > Either way, there's still something else mysterious about it: According to Wikipedia,
    > PPC440 and PPC460 (and thus I conclude PPC450 as well) comply to Power ISA v2.03+,
    > whereas Titan complies to Power ISA v2.04+ (i.e. not to v2.03). Strange.

    Another opinion:

    "Except for Freescale, most Power licensees base their devices on CPU core designs from IBM. AppliedMicro is the exception. It developed a new CPU of its own (Titan), then halted that effort and started afresh on a new design that may arrive shortly."
    http://www.mdronline.com/processor_watch/watch_issue.php?processor_watch_id=664

    So maybe Titan wasn't based on any PPC4xx core at all? The more information I read, the more confusing it gets ;-)
  • »19.08.10 - 11:48
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12113 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > Another opinion: [...]

    Full article is online:
    http://www.power.org/resources/downloads/Power_Architecture_MPR_Article_Aug_2010.pdf

    Some notes on its contents:

    1. Strangely, Applied Micro's APM86xxx processor is omitted from this depiction of the most recent Power Architecture roadmap version (page 3), so that their "Next-gen" "32-bit Commercial Core" seems to lack an accompanying processor.

    2. Quote: "Titan, the company's first attempt to design its own CPU, ended up on the scrap heap when design partner Intrinsity was acquired by Apple [...]. Much of that work has been rolled into a new AppliedMicro design, however." (page 4)

    That really sounds like basically a shrinked Titan without Fast14.

    3. Quote: "Revision 2.04 [...] was only implemented by PA Semiconductor (which has since been acquired by Apple) and in AppliedMicro's Titan (which has since been canceled), so it never saw the light of day." (page 2)

    Huh? PA6T "never saw the light of day"? Don't think so.

    4. Quote: "e5500 [...] is expected to run at 2.2GHz when it debuts in the QorIQ P5 series in 4Q10" (page 3)

    According to Freescale's QorIQ P5020/5010 product page:

    "...initially offered at 2.0GHz..."

    5. Quote: "Freescale's high-end QorIQ P5 will clock at a "mere" 2.2GHz--about 50% slower than Intel's Core i7." (page 2)

    2.2 GHz being 50% slower means 100% equating 4.4 GHz. I doubt that by the time the QorIQ P5 is released the Core i7 will clock anywhere near that level. Current Core i7 is at 3.3 GHz maximum. 2.2 GHz is only 34% slower than 3.3 GHz.

    6. Quote: "Xilinx [...] has announced its intention to work with ARM but not any details of the upcoming chips themselves." (page 4)

    Seems they missed something:

    http://press.xilinx.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=212763&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1418796
    http://www.xilinx.com/technology/roadmap/processing-platform.htm
  • »10.09.10 - 03:28
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Interesting read. Are you already investigatinc that scary ARM Cortex A-15? Announced at up to four cores at a couple gigahertz, with all those clever tricks: NEON and DSP extensions, VFPv3 floating point, native Java, virtuzlization...
  • »10.09.10 - 09:39
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 370 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    So maybe Titan wasn't based on any PPC4xx core at all? The more information I read, the more confusing it gets ;-)



    Titan was a new design from scratch, it was designed by Intrinsity for AMCC.
    Intrinsity said this at a talk I went to.
  • »10.09.10 - 23:13
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12113 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Titan was a new design from scratch, it was designed by
    > Intrinsity for AMCC. Intrinsity said this at a talk I went to.

    Thanks. I know that "position" (or rather: factual information, seeing it comes from the designers themselves). It's just that I'm curious about statements which imply otherwise:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6268&forum=11&post_id=72235#72235
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6268&forum=11&post_id=75943#75943
  • »10.09.10 - 23:57
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12113 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    >> Titan was a new design from scratch, it was designed by
    >> Intrinsity for AMCC. Intrinsity said this at a talk I went to.

    > Thanks. I know that "position" (or rather: factual information, seeing
    > it comes from the designers themselves). It's just that I'm curious
    > about statements which imply otherwise

    ...like those, subsuming the Titan core based APM83xxx/Gemini under PPC4xx:

    ftp://94.230.212.16/bdigdb/config/powerpc/ppc4xx/apm83xxx/
    http://www.abatron.ch/products/debugger-support/gnu-support.html
    http://www.abatron.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/products/pdf/bdiacc.pdf (page 34)
  • »02.12.10 - 14:09
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2054 from 2003/6/4
    ARM has the full buzz now: MS joining in with Windows. MS is said to present Windows (no WinCe) for ARM next CES.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-21/microsoft-is-said-to-announce-version-of-windows-for-arm-chips-at-ces-show.html
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »21.12.10 - 23:41
    Profile Visit Website
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2054 from 2003/6/4
    NVidia announced some interesting new developments at the CES. They will develop an ARM cpu for the desktop/Servrer market ("Denver") with the help of ARM. Windows 8 will support ARM, MS Office on ARM has been shown already. Sounds like ARM may really take off in the general computing domain during the coming years.
    Dunno about endianess options of these coming processors, but if they offer a big endian mode, maybe it will be worthwhile to think whether MorphOS eventually should go the ARM route once the ppc macs are done...
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »07.01.11 - 01:23
    Profile Visit Website
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    I saw that myself Zylesea, but I hesitated to post anything as Nvidia has released almost no technical information. They did state they wanted to compete with X86 in desktops and servers and that there would be a version of Windows 8 for ARM.
    As it will incorporate an Nvidia GPU, its less interesting from a MprphOS perspective, but its heartening to see some competition against X86 again.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.01.11 - 04:18
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12113 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > ARM cpu for the desktop/Servrer market ("Denver")

    Especially the server market likely requires a 64-bit ISA. To date ARM Ltd. haven't officially announced plans to go 64-bit. But there are rumours:

    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9197298/Arm_readies_processing_cores_for_64_bit_computing
    http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210884/ARM-64-bit-CPU-coming-soon--says-report

    Those could be connected to nVidia's recent "Denver" announcement. I'm sure that nVidia has more detailed information on ARM's internal developments than what is publically known.
  • »07.01.11 - 13:52
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:

    As it will incorporate an Nvidia GPU, its less interesting from a MprphOS perspective,


    why ?
  • »07.01.11 - 17:00
    Profile
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:


    SoundSquare wrote:
    Quote:

    As it will incorporate an Nvidia GPU, its less interesting from a MprphOS perspective,


    why ?



    Thus far, the development team has not supported Nvidia GPUs (and have, in fact, favored rival ATI's components).
    As porting to a completely different CPU family would already be a major undertaking, the additional work involved in creating Nvidia video drivers only compounds the work required.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »07.01.11 - 20:16
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12113 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > true little-endian is supported at least by MPC8xx/e200, e300, e500, PPC4xx
    > and PA6T/PWRficient.

    Apparently, POWER7/7+ and POWER8 can be added to this list.

    http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-ppc/2013-08/msg00047.html
    http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2013/09/msg00050.html
  • »25.09.13 - 14:33
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    TheMagicM
    Posts: 1218 from 2003/6/17
    I'll pass on that junk. I hate netbooks and their limited resolution. 1024x600? blah.
  • »26.09.13 - 01:02
    Profile Visit Website
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    ausPPC
    Posts: 543 from 2007/8/6
    From: Pending...
    Tempted.

    https://plus.google.com/113210185268665255819

    Utilite is now available to order from CompuLab at http://utilite-computer.com/web/order-utilite-direct
    Registration is no longer required.

    Lead time is still long and ordering quantity is limited to one unit. Once we catch up with demand Utilite will become available for immediate shipping through Amazon and resellers, but catching up will take some time so buyers looking to have Utilite by Christmas are advised to order direct soon.
    PPC assembly ain't so bad... ;)
  • »02.10.13 - 00:56
    Profile Visit Website