Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 791 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Costel is the only person among the litigating parties who has said anything publicly so far (and claims to be speaking for himself rather than Hyperion), so if it isn't him then I can't imagine who else it would be. Except perhaps CG blowing his top at having Amiga-news.de accused of bias...

    [ Edited by KennyR 20.02.2019 - 00:01 ]
  • »19.02.19 - 23:41
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    Piru
    Posts: 508 from 2003/2/24
    From: finland, the l...
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Average IQ in Italy is 102, in Belgium and Germany it's 99. Intelligence usually beats arrogance.

    https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html

    The book that table is based on is highly contested:
    Several negative reviews of the book have been published in the scholarly literature. Susan Barnett and Wendy Williams wrote that "we see an edifice built on layer upon layer of arbitrary assumptions and selective data manipulation. The data on which the entire book is based are of questionable validity and are used in ways that cannot be justified." They also wrote that cross country comparisons are "virtually meaningless"
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nations_and_intelligence#Lynn_and_Vanhanen

    Mr Vanhanen was known in Finland for several controversies in regards of his views of minorities (for instance claiming that people from Africa would be automatically inferior). There were also other instances where his integrity as a researcher was questioned.

    [ Edited by Piru 20.02.2019 - 02:24 ]
  • »20.02.19 - 00:19
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1097 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    Piru wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Average IQ in Italy is 102, in Belgium and Germany it's 99. Intelligence usually beats arrogance.

    https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html

    The book that table is based on is highly contested:
    Several negative reviews of the book have been published in the scholarly literature. Susan Barnett and Wendy Williams wrote that "we see an edifice built on layer upon layer of arbitrary assumptions and selective data manipulation. The data on which the entire book is based are of questionable validity and are used in ways that cannot be justified." They also wrote that cross country comparisons are "virtually meaningless"
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nations_and_intelligence#Lynn_and_Vanhanen

    Mr Vanhanen was known in Finland for several controversies in regards of his views of minorities (for instance claiming that people from Africa would be automatically inferior). There were also other instances where his integrity as a researcher was questioned.


    Yes, I've seen the "searching for an African IQ above 70" etc lectures on YouTube.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »20.02.19 - 10:13
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 791 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Yes, I've seen the "searching for an African IQ above 70" etc lectures on YouTube.


    I imagine your recommended videos are going to be interesting for a while...
  • »20.02.19 - 14:56
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 134 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Related?

    Unlikely. OS3.1 predates P96. These are distinct intellectual properties.

    An interesting comment on the P96 matter:
    http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/comments/305738.html



    I was talking about the linked document in general. It details claims that Ben Hermans had turned relations between Jens and Michael sour.

    I linked the news item from Jens' site and quoted the text about licenses because it seemed to corroborate the story contained in the originally liked text. I admit I was being lazy and should have pointed out what I was referring to. Anyhow since then more has come to light on the issue.
  • »20.02.19 - 17:47
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 456 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Related?

    Unlikely. OS3.1 predates P96. These are distinct intellectual properties.

    An interesting comment on the P96 matter:
    http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/comments/305738.html



    I was talking about the linked document in general. It details claims that Ben Hermans had turned relations between Jens and Michael sour.

    I linked the news item from Jens' site and quoted the text about licenses because it seemed to corroborate the story contained in the originally liked text. I admit I was being lazy and should have pointed out what I was referring to. Anyhow since then more has come to light on the issue.


    I understood you.
    So we have:
    (1)the Manomio story grounded in the news and later supported by the Neuss show notes
    (2)an issue between Jens and Mike mentioned in news before and after the detail in the Neuss show notes

    Finding these parallels can be called coincidence. I'm sure even if further parallels are uncovered the Neuss show notes will continue to be called fake from those who benefit from applying that label to them.

    #6
  • »20.02.19 - 18:03
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 791 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Well, who knows. Jens hasn't exactly accrued a reputation for level-headed business practices or dealing with conflict in an adult and rational way. I've never met him, but accusations on his character from those who have crossed swords with him have used phrases like petulant, egotistical, grudge-bearing, man-child, emotional age of seven, Aspergers, and so on.

    Greenboy used to give me the story of when he accused Buck of stealing his stall over an apparent misunderstanding and how he grumbled and ranted about it all through the event while other people simply tried to ignore it in sheer embarrassment.

    But then, such accusations are common and can hardly be relied upon. That Jens produces good product can't be argued with (even if its software support is rubbish and he seems to mistreat (or rather, disregard) developers...)

    For now though it's simply enough to know that Jens and Mike don't like each other, so stay well out of reach or you may find yourself thrown as ammunition.

    [ Edited by KennyR 20.02.2019 - 18:08 ]
  • »20.02.19 - 18:05
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1097 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Yes, I've seen the "searching for an African IQ above 70" etc lectures on YouTube.


    I imagine your recommended videos are going to be interesting for a while...


    Even weirder than one might expect at the moment, Tartarian Mud Flood conspiracy nuts, Jordan Peterson, Mickey Flanagan standup, Two Minute Papers and various Breakbeat Hardcore and Jungle videos. God knows what that says about my current mental state lol
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »20.02.19 - 22:38
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1097 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Well, who knows. Jens hasn't exactly accrued a reputation for level-headed business practices or dealing with conflict in an adult and rational way. I've never met him, but accusations on his character from those who have crossed swords with him have used phrases like petulant, egotistical, grudge-bearing, man-child, emotional age of seven, Aspergers, and so on.

    Greenboy used to give me the story of when he accused Buck of stealing his stall over an apparent misunderstanding and how he grumbled and ranted about it all through the event while other people simply tried to ignore it in sheer embarrassment.

    But then, such accusations are common and can hardly be relied upon. That Jens produces good product can't be argued with (even if its software support is rubbish and he seems to mistreat (or rather, disregard) developers...)

    For now though it's simply enough to know that Jens and Mike don't like each other, so stay well out of reach or you may find yourself thrown as ammunition.


    You could probably count on one hand the people in this scene that don't have autism and/or personality disorders.

    Bunch of middle aged men obsessed with a single brand of computer for 30 years and a clear inability to accept opposing views. ;)

    [ Edited by Intuition 20.02.2019 - 22:41 ]
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »20.02.19 - 22:40
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    @thread

    Just a mere observation concerning the transfer of assets:

    When Amiga was sold before, it received main stream media coverage.
    I don't see anything resembling a press release from anyone this time.

    Anyone else find anything? (other than amiga centric sites)

    #6



    You'd have to dig quite the rabbit hole for years to find out who owned the Commodore brand. Remember what Commodore USA had to do to get their attention? There was no media coverage then. On that subject, do you know why Commodore USA got such huge media coverage when it announced the C64x? It paid big bucks for the coverage. Barry himself told me that. There are channels to pay for "organic" news coverage.
  • »21.02.19 - 00:30
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    by the 2009 settlement agreement which is still active.



    Hyperion repeatedly violated this settlement agreement, which is easily demonstrable. You may disagree based on your feelings, but i believe Cloanto will easily win their lawsuit.
  • »21.02.19 - 00:36
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:

    Hyperion started this cycle by selling 68k versions of AmigaOS which was understood to be Cloantos (exclusive) licence.


    Karma is supposed to be a bitch.


    Bingo. I don't see how anyone here could support a company blatantly selling pirate IP.
  • »21.02.19 - 00:39
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    -deleted-

    :-p

    [ Edited by redrumloa 20.02.2019 - 19:47 ]
  • »21.02.19 - 00:44
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Well, who knows. Jens hasn't exactly accrued a reputation for level-headed business practices or dealing with conflict in an adult and rational way. I've never met him, but accusations on his character from those who have crossed swords with him have used phrases like petulant, egotistical, grudge-bearing, man-child, emotional age of seven, Aspergers, and so on.

    Greenboy used to give me the story of when he accused Buck of stealing his stall over an apparent misunderstanding and how he grumbled and ranted about it all through the event while other people simply tried to ignore it in sheer embarrassment.

    But then, such accusations are common and can hardly be relied upon. That Jens produces good product can't be argued with (even if its software support is rubbish and he seems to mistreat (or rather, disregard) developers...)

    For now though it's simply enough to know that Jens and Mike don't like each other, so stay well out of reach or you may find yourself thrown as ammunition.


    I've dealt with both Jens and Mike on a professional level. I found them both to be extremely professional. I've never met Mike in person or spoken to him on the phone. I've spoken to Jens at length on the phone & email/PM for both business and just friendly chatting. I met him in person once early on before any business dealings and didn't introduce myself. Every interaction with Jens was positive and very friendly.

    I'm not going to try to take sides here between them. They both seem like guys on the up and up.
  • »21.02.19 - 01:00
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 456 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    @thread

    Just a mere observation concerning the transfer of assets:

    When Amiga was sold before, it received main stream media coverage.
    I don't see anything resembling a press release from anyone this time.

    Anyone else find anything? (other than amiga centric sites)

    #6



    You'd have to dig quite the rabbit hole for years to find out who owned the Commodore brand. Remember what Commodore USA had to do to get their attention? There was no media coverage then. On that subject, do you know why Commodore USA got such huge media coverage when it announced the C64x? It paid big bucks for the coverage. Barry himself told me that. There are channels to pay for "organic" news coverage.


    Sorry. Perhaps my post was not clear.
    When Amiga assets changed hands prior (think Amiga Inc. here), there was mainstream coverage.
    All I am saying is that since Amiga assets have changed hands again (Cloanto), I see no mainstream announcement. There is either a reason for this or there is no one left to care.

    Re:Commodore
    I found the 1st secured creditors in docs long ago. I also wrote in great detail about this (AW) long before Barry and I discussed the likely outcome in public. (also on AW)
    I'd be surprised if anyone knew anything about this IP that I haven't already learned.

    #6
  • »21.02.19 - 12:28
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > When Amiga assets changed hands prior [...], there was
    > mainstream coverage. [...] since Amiga assets have changed
    > hands again (Cloanto), I see no mainstream announcement.
    > There is either a reason for this or there is no one left to care.

    I think the main reason for lack of mainstream coverage is the lack of an official press release by Cloanto and/or Amiga Inc.
  • »21.02.19 - 13:21
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 456 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > When Amiga assets changed hands prior [...], there was
    > mainstream coverage. [...] since Amiga assets have changed
    > hands again (Cloanto), I see no mainstream announcement.
    > There is either a reason for this or there is no one left to care.

    I think the main reason for lack of mainstream coverage is the lack of an official press release by Cloanto and/or Amiga Inc.


    Agree. That is where it should/would begin.

    #6
  • »21.02.19 - 13:29
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>>>> Apparently the news was not well received

    >>>> What "news was not well received" by whom?

    >>> Oh, it's just Costel moaning [...]

    >> Comment #641 (including both the quoted comment and the linked
    >> amigaworld.net comment) which I replied to with my question is
    >> about the unrelated P96 matter, so I think you are mistaken.

    > Costel is the only person among the litigating parties who has
    > said anything publicly so far [...], so if it isn't him then
    > I can't imagine who else it would be.

    Again, number6's comment was made in reference to the P96 matter, which Hyperion is no litigating party to. And as can be read, cgutjahr's amigaworld.net comment on the P96 matter doesn't refer to Costel or Hyperion in any way.
  • »21.02.19 - 13:32
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > we have [...] an issue between Jens and Mike mentioned
    > in news before [...] the detail in the Neuss show notes

    Before? Where was this mentioned?

    > the Neuss show notes will continue to be called fake from
    > those who benefit from applying that label to them.

    Was any of this "fake" calling done in public?
  • »21.02.19 - 13:52
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 456 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > we have [...] an issue between Jens and Mike mentioned
    > in news before [...] the detail in the Neuss show notes

    Before? Where was this mentioned?

    > the Neuss show notes will continue to be called fake from
    > those who benefit from applying that label to them.

    Was any of this "fake" calling done in public?


    If you prefer, I'll call the "prior to Neuss" my opinion:
    2001 and the 3 updates since
    It would seem to me that there would have been issues prior to both Neuss and the latest Amiganews story, in the intervening time from 2001-2017, which then prompted the string of edits/updates.

    I used "fake" for emphasis. If people cling to the thought that the sources discussed are "anonymous" and therefore hold no credibility, then I don't think abbreviating that to the one word "fake" is that much of a stretch. Use of the exact word "fake" has not been used in public afaik.

    I do have a question for you or anyone who might have a reasonable explanation though.

    Why did Hyperion just days ago file an appeal to overturn their refused opposition to the EUIPO filing for the Amiga trademark by "Drews, Heinz-Alexander", especially given that Amiga Inc. registered the tm and now has apparently transferred same to Cloanto?

    Source

    #6
  • »21.02.19 - 15:17
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11480 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> we have [...] an issue between Jens and Mike mentioned
    >>> in news before [...] the detail in the Neuss show notes

    >> Before? Where was this mentioned?

    > If you prefer, I'll call the "prior to Neuss" my opinion:
    > 2001 and the 3 updates since

    The 2001 press release definitely predates Jens' involvement in P96 by many years. But admittedly, while the Neuss show in 2017 predates the April 2018 update, the latter predates the public leaking of the show notes in August 2018.

    > If people cling to the thought that the sources discussed [...] hold no credibility, then
    > I don't think abbreviating that to the one word "fake" is that much of a stretch.

    Agreed. Do you happen to know if any of the people mentioned in the show notes have clinged to such thought in public?
  • »21.02.19 - 20:45
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 456 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    >>> we have [...] an issue between Jens and Mike mentioned
    >>> in news before [...] the detail in the Neuss show notes

    >> Before? Where was this mentioned?

    > If you prefer, I'll call the "prior to Neuss" my opinion:
    > 2001 and the 3 updates since

    The 2001 press release definitely predates Jens' involvement in P96 by many years. But admittedly, while the Neuss show in 2017 predates the April 2018 update, the latter predates the public leaking of the show notes in August 2018.

    > If people cling to the thought that the sources discussed [...] hold no credibility, then
    > I don't think abbreviating that to the one word "fake" is that much of a stretch.

    Agreed. Do you happen to know if any of the people mentioned in the show notes have clinged to such thought in public?


    The only public reference I have is the 1 quote from Timothy, for good reason, imo. Drawing further or constant attention to that document is surely not in their best interests. I'm referring to the Hyperion side obviously.

    #6
  • »21.02.19 - 21:10
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1423 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:

    Re:Commodore
    I found the 1st secured creditors in docs long ago. I also wrote in great detail about this (AW) long before Barry and I discussed the likely outcome in public. (also on AW)
    I'd be surprised if anyone knew anything about this IP that I haven't already learned.

    #6


    I'm sure YOU knew, you are very good at digging. In the immediate years Pre-CUSA I had not been on AW for a long time. I did see post-CUSA you had dug all this up.
  • »21.02.19 - 23:35
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 134 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    by the 2009 settlement agreement which is still active.



    Hyperion repeatedly violated this settlement agreement, which is easily demonstrable. You may disagree based on your feelings, but i believe Cloanto will easily win their lawsuit.


    My point is that regardless of how this case concludes, Cloanto are still bound by the settlement agreement while the case is ongoing.

    FYI Cloanto winning would probably be the best outcome here in my "emotionally charged" opinion.
  • »21.02.19 - 23:46
    Profile
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    kamelito
    Posts: 103 from 2011/9/21
    I guess that it would have been better if Morphos replaced AmigaOS back then :(
  • »22.02.19 - 11:46
    Profile