Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4977 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > to escape the attentions of the vast army of patent trolls out there

    More like trademark trolls in this specific case ;-)




    "...trademark trolls..., have we really gotten that pathetic?
    Trolling trademarks that haven't seen really seen active use in years?Cloanto v
    OMG!

    Eh, I'm with you on this one Andreas, I hope Herman's wins.
    Because otherwise Cloanto is rewarded for trying to buy full/contolling rights to an IP that was already under license.

    Screw the hard feelings. At least Hyperion has released some software it has lead the production of.
    "Amiga Forever"? Yeah, like I need to pay for a reworked version of UAE and some old OS files.

    And who did Cloanto "buy" these rights from? Bill McEwen? Oh yeah, there is a guy I want to support. Talk about dragging down the entire enterprise. There is your primary villan.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »17.02.19 - 01:28
    Profile
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2329 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:


    Eh, I'm with you on this one Andreas, I hope Herman's wins.
    Because otherwise Cloanto is rewarded for trying to buy full/contolling rights to an IP that was already under license.



    Hyperion started this cycle by selling 68k versions of AmigaOS which was understood to be Cloantos (exclusive) licence.


    Karma is supposed to be a bitch.
  • »17.02.19 - 06:43
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 483 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:


    Eh, I'm with you on this one Andreas, I hope Herman's wins.
    Because otherwise Cloanto is rewarded for trying to buy full/contolling rights to an IP that was already under license.



    Hyperion started this cycle by selling 68k versions of AmigaOS which was understood to be Cloantos (exclusive) licence.


    Karma is supposed to be a bitch.


    Not sure what you mean about cycle, but if we're talking the start of this in general:

    watch the 2nd vid, see the kickstart

    As I stated prior in this thread:
    The ink was barely dry on the Amiga Inc./Hyperion VOF settlement of 2009 when this occurred.

    Quote:

    Mike told Timothy that it was the Manomio case that had brought the initial cease and
    desist involving Hyperion, to which Ben had promised explanations, and which ultimately
    led to the 2016 case, which did not come out of the blue as Timothy thought.


    Source

    Show me a denial regarding the above and I'll consider changing my opinion as to how this all started.

    Keep in mind if looking for confirmation, that most of the available documents concern motions and responses. "discovery" "depositions" are not normally a part of what is made available for public viewing. As with the comment regarding document status on the C-A Acquisition transfer, documents can be marked "confidential" or "attorney's eyes only", at this time.

    #6
  • »17.02.19 - 12:37
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    Jim wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > to escape the attentions of the vast army of patent trolls out there

    More like trademark trolls in this specific case ;-)




    "...trademark trolls..., have we really gotten that pathetic?
    Trolling trademarks that haven't seen really seen active use in years?Cloanto v
    OMG!

    Eh, I'm with you on this one Andreas, I hope Herman's wins.
    Because otherwise Cloanto is rewarded for trying to buy full/contolling rights to an IP that was already under license.

    Screw the hard feelings. At least Hyperion has released some software it has lead the production of.
    "Amiga Forever"? Yeah, like I need to pay for a reworked version of UAE and some old OS files.

    And who did Cloanto "buy" these rights from? Bill McEwen? Oh yeah, there is a guy I want to support. Talk about dragging down the entire enterprise. There is your primary villan.


    Hyperion sold something that doesn't belong to them. They are theives, chop their bloody hands off. ;)
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »17.02.19 - 15:35
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12179 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > trademarks that haven't seen really seen active use in years

    That's not something that can be said about the "Amiga" mark in my opinion.

    >> I'm almost inclined to root for Hyperion, just to have you
    >> and your paranoid delusions proven wrong :-)

    > I'm with you on this one Andreas, I hope Herman's wins.

    I see what you did there ;-)

    > like I need to pay for a reworked version of UAE and some old OS files.

    Hyperion has been charging for old OS files as well :-)
  • »17.02.19 - 22:39
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12179 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the Amiga Inc./Hyperion VOF settlement of 2009

    Wasn't Hyperion a CVBA by then?
  • »17.02.19 - 23:00
    Profile
  • rob
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    rob
    Posts: 139 from 2008/7/22
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:


    Not sure what you mean about cycle, but if we're talking the start of this in general:

    watch the 2nd vid, see the kickstart

    As I stated prior in this thread:
    The ink was barely dry on the Amiga Inc./Hyperion VOF settlement of 2009 when this occurred.

    Quote:

    Mike told Timothy that it was the Manomio case that had brought the initial cease and
    desist involving Hyperion, to which Ben had promised explanations, and which ultimately
    led to the 2016 case, which did not come out of the blue as Timothy thought.


    Source

    Show me a denial regarding the above and I'll consider changing my opinion as to how this all started.

    #6


    I hadn't seen that before. A very interesting read indeed.

    Related?

    "After making the money transfer in december 2016 and signing the software acquisition agreement on January 30th, 2017, we have bought the P96 RTG software from Tobias Abt and Alexander Kneer. A prior license agreement with Hyperion entertainment for use of P96 in OS4.1 is part of the agreement, and will of course be continued under ownership of iComp. There is no other license agreement with any other party besides this."

    "Unfortunately, there is a market actor that claims to have a perpetual license for P96, without having any written proof for this claim. We were even summoned to not advertise what the agreement clearly says: iComp GmbH is the only legal source for a P96 software registration. We believe that a claim of a software product or bundle containing a "registered version" of P96 is false advertising."

    https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/33/items/icomp-confirms-ownership-of-p96.html
  • »17.02.19 - 23:48
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 483 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > the Amiga Inc./Hyperion VOF settlement of 2009

    Wasn't Hyperion a CVBA by then?


    Absolutely. I posted VOF because that refers to the initial case filings.
    Apologies if this was confusing.
    By October announcement of settlement, they were already a CVBA.

    As point of fact, although articles and wiki have never shown an exact date, the official
    paperwork which has still not been posted anywhere, is dated April 15, 2009.

    #6

    Edit: added exact date and removed iirc. heh

    [ Edited by number6 18.02.2019 - 08:22 ]
  • »18.02.19 - 12:09
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 483 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    rob wrote:
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:


    Not sure what you mean about cycle, but if we're talking the start of this in general:

    watch the 2nd vid, see the kickstart

    As I stated prior in this thread:
    The ink was barely dry on the Amiga Inc./Hyperion VOF settlement of 2009 when this occurred.

    Quote:

    Mike told Timothy that it was the Manomio case that had brought the initial cease and
    desist involving Hyperion, to which Ben had promised explanations, and which ultimately
    led to the 2016 case, which did not come out of the blue as Timothy thought.


    Source

    Show me a denial regarding the above and I'll consider changing my opinion as to how this all started.

    #6


    I hadn't seen that before. A very interesting read indeed.


    To be clear, although I feel the facts about Manomio in the news articles are backed up by the Neuss show notes, that does not mean the Neuss show notes have been accepted as fact.
    Although no one has made a specific denial as to the content concerning Manomio, there is also no one listed in the Neuss doc as an attendee of said meeting who has "stood up" to confirm the content or comment -on- it.

    The only comment I have seen regarding Hyperion's stance re:the Neuss show notes is here:
    Tim

    You'll note that the denial is rather general in nature, and therefore does not serve to clarify the matter. As I mentioned in another post, "discovery" "depositions" are not made public on Pacer in general as are the motions and responses. Therefore, it is possible there is more information concerning this affair, just not for our eyes atm.

    #6
  • »18.02.19 - 12:26
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 483 from 2008/8/10
    @Andreas_Wolf

    Although nothing escapes you, I'll note that the long standing discussion of what constitues news or facts or fairness in reporting drags on.

    Source

    #6
  • »18.02.19 - 13:28
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:

    And something much more recent:

    February 2019 update

    #6


    Seems pretty darn solid if you ask me. Case closed.

    Shame on others for their obvious bad intent.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »18.02.19 - 18:08
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 880 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say Cloanto producing a receipt for P96's license pretty much kills any argument from Jens and his 'et al' (probably Hyperion) that P96 in Amiga Forever isn't licensed. Unless Kneer himself comes out and says different, they'll only be pissing away their money if they try to litigate.

    But then again, acting on sheer ego against any form of common sense isn't new from this bunch. Sometimes I do really wonder what the hell is wrong inside their heads.

    [ Edited by KennyR 18.02.2019 - 21:30 ]
  • »18.02.19 - 21:15
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 483 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say Cloanto producing a receipt for P96's license pretty much kills any argument from Jens and his 'et al' (probably Hyperion) that P96 in Amiga Forever isn't licensed. Unless Kneer himself comes out and says different, they'll only be pissing away their money if they try to litigate.

    But then again, acting on sheer ego against any form of common sense isn't new from this bunch. Sometimes I do really wonder what the hell is wrong inside their heads.


    Apparently the news was not well received:

    Source

    #6
  • »19.02.19 - 00:31
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12179 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Apparently the news was not well received

    What "news was not well received" by whom?
  • »19.02.19 - 09:25
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    KennyR wrote:
    Quote:

    I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say Cloanto producing a receipt for P96's license pretty much kills any argument from Jens and his 'et al' (probably Hyperion) that P96 in Amiga Forever isn't licensed. Unless Kneer himself comes out and says different, they'll only be pissing away their money if they try to litigate.

    But then again, acting on sheer ego against any form of common sense isn't new from this bunch. Sometimes I do really wonder what the hell is wrong inside their heads.


    Average IQ in Italy is 102, in Belgium and Germany it's 99. Intelligence usually beats arrogance.

    https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »19.02.19 - 09:50
    Profile
  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1376 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Average IQ in Italy is 102, in Belgium and Germany it's 99. Intelligence usually beats arrogance.

    Yale University article: Why a high IQ doesn't mean you're smart
  • »19.02.19 - 10:38
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1110 from 2013/5/24
    From: Nederland
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Average IQ in Italy is 102, in Belgium and Germany it's 99. Intelligence usually beats arrogance.

    Yale University article: Why a high IQ doesn't mean you're smart


    Well in this particular case it might indicate a higher level of honesty. ;)
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.15

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »19.02.19 - 10:51
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 483 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Apparently the news was not well received

    What "news was not well received" by whom?


    Merely referring to feedback I received regarding the Amiganews.de story and the content of cgutjahr's post that I linked to.

    #6
  • »19.02.19 - 14:34
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 880 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Intuition wrote:
    Average IQ in Italy is 102, in Belgium and Germany it's 99. Intelligence usually beats arrogance.

    https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html


    Never trust things you read on the internet. The average IQ any country is 100 - that's the whole point. It's a quotient. And one which I'm guessing has a 5% margin of error.
  • »19.02.19 - 18:24
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 880 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Apparently the news was not well received

    What "news was not well received" by whom?


    Oh, it's just Costel moaning that daring to report free legal documents is somehow biased or discriminatory towards Hyperion. He's best ignored.
  • »19.02.19 - 18:26
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12179 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> Apparently the news was not well received

    >> What "news was not well received" by whom?

    > Oh, it's just Costel moaning [...]

    Comment #641 (including both the quoted comment and the linked amigaworld.net comment) which I replied to with my question is about the unrelated P96 matter, so I think you are mistaken.
  • »19.02.19 - 21:40
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12179 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> Apparently the news was not well received

    >> What "news was not well received" by whom?

    > Merely referring to feedback I received regarding the Amiganews.de
    > story and the content of cgutjahr's post that I linked to.

    As I see it, cgutjahr's amigaworld.net comment is about what already started happening *before* Cloanto made the correspondence with Kneer public and thus also *before* the news coverage by amiga-news.de. So I'm still in the dark as to what "news was not well received" by whom.
  • »19.02.19 - 21:51
    Profile