> He has definitely been ”directing” Hyperion’s war effort in the
> trademark area for the entire 2017.

Yes, no surprise there:
"Ben Hermans [...] will continue representing its legal interests in the best possible way."

I'd think that "representing legal interests" includes trademark matters.

@stephen_robinson

Nothing new there. He just continues to bark about his robbed “settlement”. Merely more of the same innuendo. Nothing new.

Cloanto clearly has the upper hand; they sold Amiga operating systems using Amiga trademark two years before Hyperion even existed as a company, seven years before Hyperion managed to squeeze out their first OS product, and they have never stopped. Everything is easily documented to predate anything Hyperion can come up with, by many years. Since then they have become the *registered owners* of the copyrights to said operating systems (IP which Hyperion’s OS4 uses as a base), and they have also registered the Amiga trademark in US, EU and UK. The only thing remaining is the amiga.com domain (that is currently hanging in the air), which probably will land at Cloanto as well in the end.

> [...] which makes ”the settlement” kind of worthless.

Apparently, Cloanto considers the settlement agreement so worthless that they use it to make their points in 19 of the total 72 paragraphs (i.e. more than a fourth) of the complaint ;-)

Quote:

Oh watching that tosser Hermans get his comeuppance will be great :)

"Whilst we deeply regret that once again substantial resources will need to be redirected away from development to litigation..."

LOL

Essence of Ben Hermans should be bottled and sold as a way to strip bones off corpses. It's certainly done a slap up job of dissolving anything worthwhile from OS4.

Quote:

Well, exactly. It's not as if Cloanto has amassed a huge native reputation for aggressiveness and acting in poor faith like Hyperion have. Hyperion's reputation for unnecessary litigation and self-aggrandising nastiness far beyond the needs of a hobbyist scene is unprecedented, and has done enormous damage to the platform as a whole.

Hyperion - and the centrepoint Ben Hermans - have been in and out of Amiga news since the late 90s. They sued Titan Computer because they didn't think they tried hard enough to market their games, and seem to have fallen out with Haage&Partner for a similar reason. They spent enormous time trying to convince people that Phase5/bPlan were putting logic bombs in their firmware and even longer spreading FUD about the legality of MorphOS... only to never sue it, because they knew it was a lie. They walked into the original agreement with Amiga Inc believing that that AInc would just go bankrupt and they'd walk with the Amiga name, only yo be held onto a settlement because Kouri died, and action that basically killed OS4. They have ex-partners who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. And current partners who would seriously consider not pissing on them if they were on fire.

Hyperion are absolute cancer. If they came out and claimed the world was round, I'd be seriously reconsidering the flat-earther arguments.

@Andreas_Wolf

I think it’s pretty obvious that Hyperions entire defense will build on that “settlement”, their response and argumentation will be full of references to it. Cloanto’s lawyers are of course aware of this and forestall this in their own initial text.

But that doesn’t change the fact that the ”settlement” is between Hyperion and Amiga Inc, concerning IP that *none* of these companies own, be it the copyrights or trademarks.

Cloanto owns it all. Amiga Inc owns nothing. Hyperion could as well have a ”settlement” with *me* regarding MS Windows.

Quote:

Not that it matters, but the wording from Ben has always been that a court (stipulated judgment) holds weight vs the settlement between parties.

Stated here right after settlement

slightly different wording in 2010

#6

> Hyperion's reputation for unnecessary litigation [...] is unprecedented

It was Amiga Inc. who sued Hyperion in April 2007. Hyperion merely countersued in June 2007 (as well as suing Amino in October 2007), before in turn being sued by Itec in July 2007 and even by the Frieden twins in July 2008. And it is Cloanto who is now suing Hyperion.

> They sued Titan Computer

Any more examples of Hyperion's "unnecessary litigation"?

> and seem to have fallen out with Haage&Partner for a similar reason.

Any details on that?

> They spent enormous time trying to convince people that [...]
> bPlan were putting logic bombs in their firmware

Any details on that?

> They walked into the original agreement with Amiga Inc believing that
> that AInc would just go bankrupt and they'd walk with the Amiga name

I'm not aware that the 2001 agreement would have given ownership of the "Amiga" name to Hyperion in case of Amiga Inc. bankruptcy, just (final) ownership of OS4.


Edit: corrected date of the Frieden twins et al. v. Hyperion et al. lawsuit
Edit2: added Hyperion v. Amino lawsuit

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 02.01.2018 - 13:22 ]

Quote:

It would have been cut and dry if Amiga Inc had 2 pennies to rub together and an ounce of measurable ethics.

What goes around comes around IMO.

@thread

Legal dispute: Statement by Hyperion, open letter from two developers

German link only atm, but letter is in english.

English version

#6

[ Edited by number6 31.12.2017 - 11:54 ]

Quote:

And Andrea Vallinotto.

T. Frieden, H. Frieden & A. Vallinotto v. Amiga Inc. & Hyperion VOF

#6

> the ”settlement” is between Hyperion and Amiga Inc, concerning IP that *none*
> of these companies own, be it the copyrights or trademarks. Cloanto owns it all.

The settlement agreement is also concerning OS4, which Cloanto certainly does not own all of.

Quote:

Amiga Inc withdrew the licence in 2006 and asked Hyperion not to publish OS4 for Classic in December. They did, in direct defiance. AInc then sued them.

Quote:

Apart from all the ones you just gave above? Titan, Amiga, Itec, the Friedens, possibly Epic, possibly H&P. Sounds a lot to me. Being litigious isn't just about suing people, it's also about giving people little choice but sue you.

Quote:

See Steffen Hausser, ANN.lu.

Quote:

See ANN.lu, the ShopIP saga. It was common knowledge at the time that Ben was posting on AWN's hidden forums and the OS4 mailing list (AmigaZeux had a few people on it), forging a false narrative that the fanboys could all parrot.

Quote:

Not ownership - just the ability to use it wherever they liked. Much like A-Eon does now.

Quote:

That's rich. Thor is worried about "goodwill and the passion" of the Amiga Kommunity now? Would this be the same Thor behind the pirate MUI branch?

:smh:

Quote:

I believe you are confusing Thore Böckelmann with Thomas Richter (Thor)

#6

Quote:

Whoops! Thank you for the correction.

Quote:


I apprecaite that you keep the history in the focus. I've followed all this crap myself over the years and don't forget the history, too. And I wouldn't trust BH in the slightest way. then again, who actually really cares any longer about Amiga, Hyperion etc.? Let them hit their skulls with their axes but we (on the MorphOS side), just go on - it's affecting us only very remotely.

One of the best things of MorphOS is that it left the name and all that crap behind.

But it's indeed a good soap opera to shorten teh waiting time for 2018 and 3.10 or #?. More popcorn please!

Quote:

A somewhat stressed over-reaction IMHO. It also picture a view that they see Hyperion’s Amiga involvement as something more than a licensor on a temporary lease. That would also explain why they would cling on to Hyperion all this time, participating in their scheme by releasing updated 3.1 versions that is obviously out of Hyperions “4.x” scope.

Anyway:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=42002&forum=2&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

Quote:

OS4 is forever intertwined with 3.1 sources. The “Boing Ball Branch” written by Olsen based on the “Checkmark Branch” sources owned by Cloanto. It can never be separated. OS4 does not exist without the Cloanto IP. The Cloanto IP however, does exist without OS4.



[ Edited by takemehomegrandma 01.01.2018 - 03:43 ]

Both of these nimrods better get there act together.
Both are licensees of a a product that may not have been legitimately owned by AInc.
BUT, Hyperion does appear to have a valid license to develop from OS3.1 source from AInc., AND Cloanto's license (most recent reaffirmed by AInc) gives them the right to distribute legacy versions of Amiga OS (even if it does NOT appear to confer ownership).
AND even if it did, Hyperion's settlement would pre-date the larte agreement.

Remember, Hyperion's settlement grants them the SOLE right to develop from OS3.1 source.

Cloanto may distribute legacy Amiga OS versions, it may have even acquired the right to the Amiga trademark, but their position in relation to owning the actual code or having the right to modify it is tenuous at best.

It would be in Cloanto's best interest to cone to a settlement with Hyperion on the use of the Amiga OS name and Hyperion's continuing right to distribute the OS it has been working on for over a decade.

Otherwise, this could de-evolve into the real discussion as to whether or not any of the parties, AInc., Hyperion, OR Cloanto ever really had a legitimate claim to the IP.

You know.. I'm rather very new to Amiga but this is the kind of stuff that gets to me..

I really don't like the fighting these company's or what ever are doing. Imagine if they were all working together, or if this stuff was just all open source.

It's why I took to morphOS out of all the amiga like OS options this one seems to support the most hardware and the UI beautiful with far less of the BS and angry Amiga people..

Please no hate..but it's honestly just from my own experience that if you question anything about AmigaOS you'll get so much hate..

I'm mostly a linux guy so maybe my way of thinking is just wrong here. Lol

Happy new years everyone! :D

Jim,

Cloanto does not have a license, they are *the owners*, hence they do whatever they want.

Amiga Inc owns nothing.

Hyperion owns nothing except what they have been developing *on top of* Cloanto’s property.

“The Settlement” is between Hyperion an Amiga Inc, noone else. Go figure...



[ Edited by takemehomegrandma 01.01.2018 - 03:42 ]

Quote:

Are all licensing agreements with Amiga Inc now invalid or just the ones that don't suit you? Are the A1200.NET cases now on shaky ground or are they fine because you only hate Hyperion?

>>> the ”settlement” is between Hyperion and Amiga Inc, concerning IP that *none*
>>> of these companies own, be it the copyrights or trademarks. Cloanto owns it all.

>> The settlement agreement is also concerning OS4, which Cloanto certainly
>> does not own all of.

> OS4 does not exist without the Cloanto IP.

Yet, Cloanto does not own all of OS4, so it does not own all IP the settlement agreement is concerning.