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And CU Amiga's licence is from 1993, predating Cloanto's.

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Which is of little relevance unless Hyperion bought off CU at some point in time.

The point I was making is that many of these non-exclusive licences were given out in the 90s, some of those before Cloanto's, and none of the other licencees have claimed it gave them ownership of the whole Amiga ecosystem, because making such a claim based on any of those licences is laughable. Any developer/publisher could, for a fee, obtain a licence to distribute OS components with their software.

[ Edited by Minuous 28.10.2018 - 18:02 ]

I'm hoping Cloanto win everything and follow through with releasing the whole of it under the GPL.

Let this be a lesson to everyone: things that appear to be abandoned never are. Just because the IP owner doesn't respond to use of this abandoned IP doesn't mean it is.

And lastly, showing you can make money from apparently abandoned IP is a sure way to wake up its owner.

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Do you really think that anyone is making money from selling any of the Amiga IP? I would like to see the financial records for all the companies involved, to see just how much income is being generated vs how much money is spent on distribution (we all know that almost zero money is being spent on development, for the past many years, unless you include A-Eon, who are not a party involved in the suits between Colanto and Hyperion)

@amigadave

In case of the 3.14 that should be fairly simple.

Take the price, subtract VAT and handling fees by the (new) payment company and your pretty close to the result.

Now multiply that with xxx(x?) copies sold and you'll end up with some pretty cash.

In praxis, as the legal IP holders, Amiga Inc don't need to care whether Hyperion and A-Eon run viable and profitable businesses. They can just wait until they make a big bunch of money and then just take it all from them with a single lawsuit.

Forcing Hyperion to cough up would only result in their bankruptcy. Amiga Inc wouldn't see a penny of that money. No doubt Hyperion has shielded 3.1.4 with its usual "we don't own the code" legal shittery so Amiga Inc wouldn't get that either.

But also don't forget, Amiga Inc's business isn't product. It's scamming investors. And you can't do that when people are running around making money out of IP you told the investors you own.

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In more recent years Cloanto have been granted exclusive rights and/or ownership of almost everything Amiga related.

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Yup, it is very clear that the interest in Amiga classic is spiking at the moment. All things retro are going bonkers at the moment, Commodore Amiga along with it. This so called OS3.14 release is certain to be making Hyperion more money than it has seen in a decade, if ever. Even in my local club there are at least 3 people who bought it so far, and a couple others talking about it. They aren't people you could consider part of the broader Amiga Kommunity. They had no clue about the legal issues.

I respect Olaf. If this wasn't a pirate release by a dirty company, I'd probably get it myself.

Sources on the number of sales of 3.1.4 are muddled. I've heard 1000, but I don't believe it. Many of the big retro channels on Youtube are running on it, and they have hundreds of thousands of views.

Amiga 68k retro is, as red pointed out, hot stuff at the moment. 3.1.4 is shaping to be the most popular software product in Amigaland since the late 90s, because (legal issues aside) everyone can use it - it isn't tied to a hardware dongle, even just cheap ones like MorphOS was and is. You can run 3.1.4 on everything from WinUAE on an i7 desktop to a classic Amiga, to a Vampire or ACA500, to UAE on a Rasperry Pi. And it's hardware requirements are lower than 3.9, given you don't even need a CD drive or a 68020+ CPU.

30,000 sales overall wouldn't be too hard to imagine, and assuming no overheads and knowing that no developers were paid, that's around the same half a million in profit that Amiga Inc just spent. Not enough to get Hyperion out of debt, but enough to waken up every patent troll and legal Amiga licencee alike from one side of the world to the other.

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Yes, in direct breach of the Settlement Agreement, thus null and void.

[ Edited by Minuous 29.10.2018 - 07:51 ]

There is a long list in Amiga Inc’s recent reply on every breach of the settlement agreement that Hyperion has been guilty of during the years. Presented as background to why the court should once and for all declare “the settlement agreement” null and void.

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That would mean the Amiga OS4 name (if not the code) would go back to being Amiga Inc's, since it was originally licensed to Hyperion and they got their exclusive rights from the settlement.

I can't see how it would be in Hyperion's interests to encourage dissolution of the settlement as void.

[ Edited by KennyR 29.10.2018 - 12:44 ]

You're not quite getting it, Kenny.
The sale to Cloanto would be a breach of the Settlement Agreement, so the sale would be null and void (not the pre-existing Settlement Agreement).

Well Amino Clown Car Insurance Incorporated claims that the settlement was already null and void due to Hyperion‘s breaches like reselling and licencing Kick 1.2 to 3.1.

@thread

3.1.4 Product is gone again from Hyperion's site.

#6

> 3.1.4 Product is gone again from Hyperion's site.

It's gone from MyCommerce's site (as before from 2Checkout/Avangate). Nothing changed on Hyperion's site.


Edit: Change now also reflected on Hyperion's site: "Pure digital sales of AmigaOS 3.4.1 [sic!] closed."

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 30.10.2018 - 10:49 ]

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Payment processors easily convinced = obvious illegal activity (IMO).

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Love how they make it totally sound like they did it on purpose.

Now begins the process of finding dealers who will risk hosting legally disputed software. Can't see them lining up for it. Best get out the paypal account...

[ Edited by KennyR 30.10.2018 - 16:46 ]

> Now begins the process of finding dealers who will risk hosting
> legally disputed software. Can't see them lining up for it.

There's at least one so far:

https://www.amiga-shop.net/Amiga-Software/AmigaOS-Amiga-operation-systems/AmigaOS-3-1-4::859.html

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Make note of what "Amiga Shops" sell obvious pirate software.

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Considering Amino is in an adversarial relationship with ?Hyperion, that kind of response is to be expected.
But if so, why hasn't Amino sued Hyperion directly OR contacted Hyperion or the Judge that rendered the decision before now?
Selling and supporting 3.14 ought to be legal, as its a more advanced version then what was shipped with Amigas that shipped with 3.1.

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Does this fall within the scope of what Cloanto are allowed to do?

https://amigastore.eu/en/522-sd-configuration-for-mist-fpga.html

Easy way through for Hyperion if it wants to keep 3.1.4 on the market is to sell 3.1.4 as a collection of diff patches with a patch script and call it the Hyperion software enhancement or AmigaOS 4 Classic Patch, or something they actually have rights to.

As long as they don't mention AmigaOS, Amiga, or distribute binaries of AmigaOS components, 3.1.4 would no longer be legally contentious.

Probably unsaleable as well, but you can't have everything. Although Hyperion certainly do try.