Cloanto sues Hyperion
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12096 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > "ExecSG_AEon is [...] rewritten for the Tabor hardware. [...]"
    > - Trevor Dickinson, the new Bill McEwen

    Indeed:

    "The newly formed ExecSG team, under the supervision of Steven Solie, is also working hard to optimise and maximise the A1222's performance."
    http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=12005
  • »31.12.19 - 19:09
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    redrumloa
    Posts: 1424 from 2003/4/13
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > "ExecSG_AEon is [...] rewritten for the Tabor hardware. [...]"
    > - Trevor Dickinson, the new Bill McEwen

    Indeed:

    "The newly formed ExecSG team, under the supervision of Steven Solie, is also working hard to optimise and maximise the A1222's performance."
    http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=12005


    My god.. Let the thing die already Trevor! It is 2020 for cripes sake! A $500 board that gets smoked by a $30 rpi, or a free G4 Power Mac pulled out of a dumpster, will never fly! Good lawd!

    [ Edited by redrumloa 04.01.2020 - 14:10 ]
  • »04.01.20 - 20:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    redrumloa wrote:
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > "ExecSG_AEon is [...] rewritten for the Tabor hardware. [...]"
    > - Trevor Dickinson, the new Bill McEwen

    Indeed:

    "The newly formed ExecSG team, under the supervision of Steven Solie, is also working hard to optimise and maximise the A1222's performance."
    http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?p=12005


    My god.. Let the thing die already Trevor! It is 2020 for cripes sake! A $500 board that gets smoked by a $30 rpi, or a free G4 Power Mac pulled out of a dumpster, will never fly! Good lawd!


    Too late for that! He's already invested so much money to get components, have boards designed, (and probably redesigned once or twice) and has spent so much development time and money getting AmigaOS4 ported to it, and people optimizing for the non-standard FPU, it is way too far along to stop now, just weeks or months away from being able to say it is complete enough to release to Amiga users, who are way more lenient in accepting beta level solutions.

    I don't know how many Tabor units will sell, but there are at least a dozen or two dozen users waiting for the opportunity to buy a Tabor system. After that, A-Eon might be able to sell an additional 40 to 50 curious users who have $500 to throw away. I doubt that Trevor will be able to sell the 500 A1222 systems that he is probably hoping to sell, so he can recoup at least some of the money he has invested into the project. What I wonder is how many more "failed" projects will Trevor be willing to invest in, before he realizes that there is no way to make any money in the Amiga market with custom hardware (the Vampire boards are a rare exception)? The money surely could be used in more productive ways, and I hope that he will abandon custom motherboard creation in favor of only supporting software development, and perhaps porting to existing hardware, that is proven to be efficient and widely available.

    I know that Trevor's intentions are, and have always been, to help sustain and attempt to grow the Amiga community, by supporting it in many different ways, but unfortunately, he has listened to poor advice from many sources, which have cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars/euros/pounds(add whatever currency is used in New Zealand). I give him tons of credit for trying to make a difference, and creating something tangible for the community, where most people only sit at their keyboards, and spew useless opinions and criticisms. (not aiming this comment at anyone in particular, and recognizing that most users on MorphZone are much less prone to useless comments than some other sites).

    [ Edited by amigadave 04.01.2020 - 14:25 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »04.01.20 - 23:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12096 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > the 500 A1222 systems that he is probably hoping to sell

    Considering he said he purchased a quantity of 1000 P1022 chips, it's probably twice that (boards plus systems that is) :-)

    > how many more "failed" projects will Trevor be willing to invest in, before he realizes that
    > there is no way to make any money in the Amiga market with custom hardware [...]?

    Is he in this for making profit? That's not the impression I got, at least. And we can't be sure he didn't break even with X1000 and/or X5000. With X1000 he probably did, which made him start X5000 and A1222 simultaneously (the severe Tabor delay may be obfuscating this fact).

    > I hope that he will abandon custom motherboard creation in favor of [...] perhaps
    > porting to existing hardware, that is proven to be [...] widely available.

    Unfortunately, the Raptor Blackbird is probably not quite fitting this description ;-)
  • »05.01.20 - 01:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    @Andreas_Wolf,

    I don't know if you are including A-Eon's development costs for the X1000, or X5000, when you say that you think that Trevor made a profit on selling X1000 systems, which allowed him to develop the X5000 and A1222 simultaneously, but Trevor himself has stated at least once that he did not come close to recouping the money spent to create the X1000, and unless he has sold many more X5000 systems than I think he has, I strongly doubt that he has made a profit on selling the X5000 yet. Since A-Eon is still selling X5000 systems, I guess they can eventually start making a profit above the design and manufacturing and distribution costs, but in such a small market, I believe that they may loss money on the X5000 and the A1222, unless they sell many more hundreds of systems over the next couple of years. I hope they do, as I am always wishing for Trevor's success, even when I don't agree with all of the decisions that A-Eon has made over the past several years. I know that his intentions are always to help grow the community, and any profits will surely be re-invested into other projects, which will also benefit the Amiga community.

    So, no, I don't think that Trevor is doing any of this to make a personal profit, but he did state that the X5000 needed to be priced to make at least a small profit, in order for the company to continue, and to fund other projects in the future. It is unfortunate that some of the advice that Trevor has listened to and acted on, has not turned out very well, but I think everyone should give him a lot of credit for doing something, besides moaning an complaining on Amiga forum sites, and doing nothing. He has tried to do his best to make a difference, and help the community move forward, and he continues to do so, even after losing what appears to be hundreds of thousands of dollars in design decision mistakes.

    Although Trevor did not mention a specific number, he has made multiple comments and expressions, during more than one AmiWest Show, which indicate that he has lost a large amount of money on the X1000, and spent a tremendous amount of money on the X5000 and A1222 designs. I just don't see how he can recoup anywhere close to that investment, with the small profit margin he will get from each X5000 and A1222 system, when the sales numbers are limited to a few hundred units. Maybe I'm wrong, and he will be able to sell almost all of the potential 1000 A1222 systems, when it is finally released in it's final "non-beta" state, and more X5000 systems will continue to sell in the future. I wish that would be true, but I remain very skeptical. Perhaps selling the Enhancer Packs will help keep A-Eon going, and the developer group that A-Eon supports will come up with more software that spurs more AmigaOS4 system sales?
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »06.01.20 - 07:25
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    ppcamiga1
    Posts: 215 from 2015/8/23
    Custom hardware is that made this hobby (Amiga) interesting.
    As long as there is no switch to unix as base spending money on Amiga software is waste money for nothing.
    We are very grateful to Trevor for his involvement in the Amiga 1222 project.
  • »06.01.20 - 10:49
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 539 from 2012/4/28
    This look Amiga Wars from a near galaxy.
  • »06.01.20 - 10:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12096 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> we can't be sure he didn't break even with X1000
    >> and/or X5000. With X1000 he probably did

    > Trevor himself has stated at least once that he did not come close to
    > recouping the money spent to create the X1000 [...]. [...] Trevor [...]
    > has made multiple comments and expressions [...] which indicate
    > that he has lost a large amount of money on the X1000

    Indeed, you are right. My memory was wrong here.
  • »06.01.20 - 11:39
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 480 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Addendum:

    >> part 3, stated to have newish information on this history

    > Yes, even the first page does have new information not made public before :-)

    Confirmation by Trevor in recent Amiga Future issue of some of these comments (emphasis mine):

    "the long drawn out saga over delivery of the CPUs had raised some concerns. Moorley privately contacted A-EON's bank in Belgium to obtain the transaction history only to discover that the account was virtually empty. Apparently, Hyperion [...] had used A-EON’s funds to keep itself afloat. As a result, A-EON did not have enough money to pay Varisys for the Nemo 2.0 programme... ...I was still keen to see the project through and fortunately Moorley agreed with me. A repayment schedule was agreed with Hyperion/Hermans and, in late December [2010], he resigned his A-EON directorship and relinquished his token shareholding in the company. I took over the management of A-EON on a temporary basis and began co-ordinating with Varisys, AmigaKit and the Hyperion OS4 development team to get the X1000 project back on track."
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/1gMRbIa_V9Lb5MJMiEYPwtwzFeCBjWRQZ/edit


    At a loss for words here. "mindboggling" perhaps?

    In an exchange yesterday after Costel returned to active posting on OS4welt:
    cgutjahr appears to mention this "event" described in your posting.

    Costel's response

    Please tell me the translation I receive is wrong and the director/board member is not saying what I think he's saying...

    #6
  • »16.01.20 - 17:15
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  • Just looking around
    cgutjahr
    Posts: 19 from 2005/8/14
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Please tell me the translation I receive is wrong and the director/board member is not saying what I think he's saying...


    Your translation is wrong ;-) He's just playing word games.

    Him: "People should give more money to Hyperion!"
    Me: How about Ben pays back the 500k bucks he stole according to Dickinson? That should pay for a lot of OS4 development..."
    Him: "It's news to me that Ben stole 500k bucks from Hyperion..."

    The important part is the "from Hyperion" bit.
  • »16.01.20 - 18:31
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 480 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    cgutjahr wrote:
    Quote:

    number6 wrote:
    Please tell me the translation I receive is wrong and the director/board member is not saying what I think he's saying...


    Your translation is wrong ;-) He's just playing word games.

    Him: "People should give more money to Hyperion!"
    Me: How about Ben pays back the 500k bucks he stole according to Dickinson? That should pay for a lot of OS4 development..."
    Him: "It's news to me that Ben stole 500k bucks from Hyperion..."

    The important part is the "from Hyperion" bit.


    The translation was "Is it completely new to me ... source?" as if he was not sure whether it was or was not "new" to him, hence why I asked. heh.

    Given Costel had written since his return to OS4welt about the different ways one could look at "blame", I just found it dumbfounding how one could not include the singlemost important event as part of that discussion.
    *shrug*

    #6
  • »16.01.20 - 18:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12096 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Me: How about Ben pays back the 500k bucks he stole according to Dickinson?

    Maybe that "repayment schedule" was what made Dickinson a Hyperion shareholder? :-)
  • »16.01.20 - 22:59
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 480 from 2008/8/10
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > Me: How about Ben pays back the 500k bucks he stole according to Dickinson?

    Maybe that "repayment schedule" was what made Dickinson a Hyperion shareholder? :-)


    Not to be repetitive, but we know how that turned out, no?

    now there are 2245 shares of which Ben Hermans owns at least 2135

    #6
  • »17.01.20 - 14:36
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    number6
    Posts: 480 from 2008/8/10
    @thread

    Consolidation of court files for those following the cases:

    German

    English

    #6
  • »26.01.20 - 23:45
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  • Order of the Butterfly
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    kriz
    Posts: 309 from 2005/10/18
    From: No(R)way
    Cloanto is some of the worst ever, they never done anything well !!
    MacMiniG4 MOS 3.18 rulez ... For music check: Horrordelic Records - Dark Psychedelic Music Since 2011 -
  • »06.02.20 - 17:24
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