Dont understand this guy. What a waste of time and energy. It's a bit ridiculous and bored always with the same song. Seems like that Gunnar has stolen you something. Dont buy it and be happy and let other decide what they want. Que cansino de elemento.

[ Editado por tolkien 17.08.2017 - 06:53 ]

> vampire [...] is as fast as 68060 50 MHz in integer operations

I think it's faster than that.

> In year 2000 on cheap pc on uae one can get 4 times better performance than
> 68060 50 MHz [...]. [...] 4 times slower than uae on cheap pc from year 2000.

Yes, the JIT compiler from year 2000 was what made UAE faster than real 68060 for the first time:

http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2000-08-00187-EN.html
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2000-08-00249-EN.html

But I'm not sure that "on cheap pc from year 2000" it was as fast as or faster than 200 MHz 68060. Do you have links?

Vampire in integer operations is as fast as 68060 50 MHz.

Uae jit.
So many years passed. Some sites from 2000 are now not exist and in 2000 there was no webarchive.
Very cheap pc in 2000 was PII 400 MHz.
Try get it and do tests.

>>> vampire [...] is as fast as 68060 50 MHz in integer operations

>> I think it's faster than that.

> Vampire in integer operations is as fast as 68060 50 MHz.

Somehow this doesn't convince me. I still think it's faster than that.

> in 2000 there was no webarchive.

"Since 1996, the Wayback Machine has been archiving cached pages of websites [...]."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayback_Machine#History

Amiga.org in 1996
Amiga.de in 1997
Amiga.com in 1998

More examples from 1997:
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8197&forum=3&start=4
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11877&forum=3&start=4
More examples from 1998:
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8785&forum=32&start=19
More examples from 1999:
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8795&forum=12&start=2
More examples from 2000:
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7001&forum=3&start=246
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11474&forum=11&start=16

>> I'm not sure that "on cheap pc from year 2000" it was as fast as or faster
>> than 200 MHz 68060.

> Very cheap pc in 2000 was PII 400 MHz.

I found this:

"JIT [...] makes even an old and inexpensive 200 MHz PC faster at running Amiga software than a 68060-based Amiga (benchmark: SAS/C compiling Personal Paint)."
http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-119

If faster than real 68060 here means equivalent of 100+ MHz 68060, then yes, PII 400 MHz could have emulated 200+ MHz 68060 in year 2000.

I'm not keeping score or anything but I think Andreas is winning by a fair margin. LMAO.

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It's a stupid and childish argument that ppcamiga1 keeps repeating, while the rest of us sit back and laugh at him.

There are maybe 5 people who disagree with how Gunnar is proceeding with the Vampire boards, and not providing a 68k compatible MMU, or complete FPU, when 99% of the rest of the Amiga users don't care about those things, and are happily using their Vampire boards to run all kinds of Amiga software faster than they have ever been able to run it before. The only exceptions are the owners of over clocked 68060 accelerated Amiga computers. Owners of A600 and A500, A2000, CDTV, and A1000 Amigas are very happy to have an accelerator that runs so fast, and is compatible with most of the software they want to run today, on an old original Amiga computer.

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It seems that most of the members at Amiga.org and AmigaWorld.net are fed up with his continuous bashing of all things related to Vampire, Apollo team, or Gunnar. I know a few that have asked me to ban him, since I still hold the rank of moderator at both sites, but I don't visit either site any longer, and have no desire to step in and moderate on either site again.

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Thats interesting. I'm a mod on AO but I dont use any of the mod type tools since I dont regularly participate on AO and feel as though I "lost the right" because of that. I'm OK with that, its been a long time coming. The Amiga scene has many haters within. Coming over here and hanging out talking MorphOS is a breath of fresh air.

As far as Gunnar, I'm thrilled with the Vampire boards, regardless of the duration of time it has taken. "If you dont like the hardware, dont buy it.".

I'm super excited to buy the standalone Vampire board but havent ruled out buying the Vampire 1200.

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I'm not so sure how I feel about the standalone. I have a V500+ in my A2000 I enjoy, but the new direction they are starting on isnt thrilling me. This latest requirement to register boards and record a digital serial number has me concerned.

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You moved again??? Oxnard is a great location, I love the weather there and would like to live there myself.

I haven't kept up on the latest "requirements" for the new Vampire boards, so I don't know anything about registration, or digital serial numbers, but what is your concern?

Just a wild guess, but maybe Gunnar wants to limit where his 68080 FPGA code gets used, and is planning on limiting its distribution by some kind of hidden code that disables itself if it is run on different hardware. From what little I know, I think that Gunnar and the team are still trying to sell the 68080 FPGA code to any of the commercial companies that still depend on 680x0 CPU's in their embedded designs. They are making some pretty good money from the tiny Amiga community selling Vampire boards, but could be making 10 times that or more probably, if some company can make use from a really fast 680x0 soft core design.

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Why shouldn't they try. 68k is still used in a couple of environments. One being military.

But I agree that this registration process is a little bit questionable because you will only get Core updates if you have registered.


Manfred

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That still doesn't answer my question.

What products do you suggest I buy for my A500 to increase the RAM, upgrade the CPU and provide RTG?

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Lol

On a side-note:

What is it with the Amiga community that it attracts so many emotionally unstable halfwits with nonfunctional social skills compared to other retro computing scenes?

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Ha! You're not the first person I've heard make statements like that. I'd go one step further, not just emotionally unstable, sometimes mentally unstable with borderline personality issues.

The Vampire is the best thing that happened to the Amiga since phase 5 went out of business.
Sorry to say that, but everybody who keeps trashing the Vampire is an ignorant amiga hater. Who the f... would compare any real hardware to emulated one? This is beyond trolling. Let alone the hard and intense work they've put into it deserves the respect.
With the standalone version there's even the chance of creating a complete new amiga model continuing the original line of amiga models. It is a true classic amiga successor based on an advanced and improved amiga custom chipset architecture. No PC/Mac graphics components or cards.
Sorry to say that, but the future of amiga lies in the Vampire and FPGA not MorphOS or OS4. It'll be the new NextGen. The sales numbers are speaking for themselves.
With the A1200 and standalone version the numbers will explode even more. I'm pretty sure they'll pass 10,000 sold Vampire boards/systems.

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Well I was trying to be polite (for a change) lol

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The reason I like the standalone is because..if I buy the A1200 version and my A1200 goes to shit, it will cost me way too much money to fix. I'm not that interested in running actual Amiga hardware because of this. I hardly ever use my real Amiga computers. I maybe power them on once a year if even that...honestly I hardly ever do anything Amiga related other than go to AO and MZ to read stuff. There might be a time where I walk away and sell it all.

A standalone gives me something that is new that can possibly last a few years like a real Amiga that can be used quite often. Registering a board doesnt concern me at all.

[ Edited by TheMagicM 20.08.2017 - 08:01 ]

> Who the f... would compare any real hardware to emulated one?
> This is beyond trolling.

To be fair, it was none other than Gunnar von Boehn who did this in 2008:

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=11696&start=180

Vampire is pure shit but.... Take my money for that v4 gunnar. Take my money!

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I agree with everything but that one line. The original Workbench (3.x and older), blows. Its not an OS that is usable on the web with whatever apps we currently have. Vampire is basically a system that can replace our current aging Amiga's with something that can take over via emulation. I still think there is a place for MorphOS, the other one, I'm not sure. I still think the Vampire is a glorified UAE on real hardware. Will I buy it? Heck yea, why not, but realistically, to replace real hardware and emulate 68k systems. I'll sell what I have on ebay for max $$$$

I dont know where MorphOS goes from here to the future. PPC is cool, it did what we wanted and got us from old Amiga hardware to something newer and much more powerful. Theres a next step somewhere, maybe x86, who knows. What will happen to MorphOS? Will it go the way of Haiku and just be a novelty? Will current devs be interested 10-15 years from now or will it end up having a "final" version and remain closed source for the rest of its life?

> Vampire [...] can replace our current aging Amiga's with something that can take
> over via emulation. [...] I still think the Vampire is a glorified UAE on real hardware.
> Will I buy it? Heck yea, why not, but realistically, to [...] emulate 68k systems.

I wouldn't call FPGA technology emulation. A configured FPGA uses real hardware logic gates, not different from an ASIC.

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ok..so like a shapeshifter. I can use it to emulate an Amiga, C64, Apple II etc etc. I still say its just UAE on steroids. I'll still be interested in it though. Might even get one for my A1200.

> I can use it to emulate

I'd simply call the Apollo 68080 an implementation of the m68k ISA (plus enhancements). Just like the MorphOS ABox is an implementation of the AmigaOS API (plus enhancements), not an emulation of AmigaOS.

> I still say its just UAE on steroids.

UAE on current hardware is way faster, a Vampire on steroids, so to speak :-)

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I've had a debate about this because the Amiga-Future article in the issue 126 about the Vampire said exactly that. That it's an emulation of the CPU.
I was thinking, too, that it is not an emulation.
But a friend of mine who is a hardware specialist said, that when loading a CPU core into an FPGA you _could_ say that it's an emulation. In case of the Vampire however, a 68080 as ASIC or 'real' CPU doesn't exist, so it's no emulation.


Manfred

> a friend of mine who is a hardware specialist said, that when loading
> a CPU core into an FPGA you _could_ say that it's an emulation.

I'm far from being a hardware specialist, but as far as I know, you don't actually load any software into an FPGA. What's essentially happening instead is that during configuration, the FPGA's logic gates are wired according to the behaviour specified in the HDL file. The main difference between ASIC and FPGA is simply the re-configurability of the FPGA's logic gates and their wiring. That's why I wouldn't call it emulation.

> In case of the Vampire however, a 68080 as ASIC or 'real' CPU doesn't
> exist, so it's no emulation.

To my mind, even if the Apollo 68080 will be made into an ASIC one day, the older FPGA-based solution won't suddenly turn into an emulation.