Beginners Setup
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 447 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf escribió:
    > my guess is that there probably isn't any copyrighted data extracted/converted

    Yes, that's what I get from reading the sources linked from this Google search.

    FontTester for example available in MorphOS Storage:
    https://www.morphos-storage.net/
    https://www.morphos-storage.net/?id=1637829
  • »26.07.21 - 17:56
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11606 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Yes, that's what I get from reading the sources
    >> linked from this Google search.

    > FontTester for example available in MorphOS Storage: [...]

    Wrong quote?
  • »26.07.21 - 18:02
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 447 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf escribió:
    >> Yes, that's what I get from reading the sources
    >> linked from this Google search.

    > FontTester for example available in MorphOS Storage: [...]

    Wrong quote?

    Humm, I though that him needs programs to test fonts under MorphOS.
  • »26.07.21 - 18:37
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11606 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>>> Yes, that's what I get from reading the sources
    >>>> linked from this Google search.

    >>> FontTester for example available in MorphOS Storage: [...]

    >> Wrong quote?

    > I though that him needs programs to test fonts under MorphOS.

    Yes, but you replied to me (talking about .otag files), not to him.
  • »26.07.21 - 22:07
    Profile
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 43 from 2021/7/9
    New Day, new discoveries :-)

    @NewSense - thank you for your email, I sent you the fonts. Have fun playing around.

    @Templario - thank you for the hint. I installed FontTester and loaded both fonts. Both fonts were read, so it SEEMS that the freetype.library used by MorphOS is indeed able to load OpenType data - or at least load TT and PS outlines stored in an OpenType.

    However, the FontTester only shows standard characters. So only BASIC LATIN and LATIN EXTENDED (the w01 and w02 codepages, i.e. the first two codepages of a font).

    In other words, only 132 characters are shown - but Syntax has 385 characters. I strongly assume MorphOS is only loading the first two codepages, assuming that there is nothing else in there (which used to be the case with TT and PS fonts).

    Unfortunately, standard OT fonts can have up to 56 000 chars included. If my assumption is correct, then installing a Chinese font would not enable you to write Chinese, because you would never be able to reach those codepages that host those several thousand chars.

    Still, looks like the fonts as such a functional and also render ok. So at least for users using Latin scripts (aka English), it is possible to use professional OpenTypes. Nice! :-)

    @JVC - I tried using ShowCase, and that did work. I was able to include both fonts as text into the image.

    So all in all I would say: More fonts would make MorphOS more "morphy". :-D
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.17
  • »27.07.21 - 14:37
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 447 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf escribió:
    >>>> Yes, that's what I get from reading the sources
    >>>> linked from this Google search.

    >>> FontTester for example available in MorphOS Storage: [...]

    >> Wrong quote?

    > I though that him needs programs to test fonts under MorphOS.

    Yes, but you replied to me (talking about .otag files), not to him.


    Uffs, sorry.
  • »27.07.21 - 15:29
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 447 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    pikewerfer escribió:
    New Day, new discoveries :-)

    @NewSense - thank you for your email, I sent you the fonts. Have fun playing around.

    @Templario - thank you for the hint. I installed FontTester and loaded both fonts. Both fonts were read, so it SEEMS that the freetype.library used by MorphOS is indeed able to load OpenType data - or at least load TT and PS outlines stored in an OpenType.

    However, the FontTester only shows standard characters. So only BASIC LATIN and LATIN EXTENDED (the w01 and w02 codepages, i.e. the first two codepages of a font).

    In other words, only 132 characters are shown - but Syntax has 385 characters. I strongly assume MorphOS is only loading the first two codepages, assuming that there is nothing else in there (which used to be the case with TT and PS fonts).

    Unfortunately, standard OT fonts can have up to 56 000 chars included. If my assumption is correct, then installing a Chinese font would not enable you to write Chinese, because you would never be able to reach those codepages that host those several thousand chars.

    Still, looks like the fonts as such a functional and also render ok. So at least for users using Latin scripts (aka English), it is possible to use professional OpenTypes. Nice! :-)

    @JVC - I tried using ShowCase, and that did work. I was able to include both fonts as text into the image.

    So all in all I would say: More fonts would make MorphOS more "morphy". :-D


    The special charapters or symbols as in the cases of cirilic for Greek, chinesse or japanese kanji, they can show if the program or game uses them, but not if the program or game use the system default fonts and you use MorphOS with other language for example english, this feature from Windos doesn't work in Amiga systems, but if your game or program use the special fonts loaded they are show, for example my experiment fame Sabrina, cans show the the chinese and japanesse languages even in the menu but only under Windows in MorphOS and AmigaOS4 not, but the text inside the window they were showed perfectly in these Amiga systems.
  • »27.07.21 - 15:35
    Profile
  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 43 from 2021/7/9
    Quote:

    Templario wrote:

    The special charapters or symbols as in the cases of cirilic for Greek, chinesse or japanese kanji, they can show if the program or game uses them, but not if the program or game use the system default fonts and you use MorphOS with other language for example english, this feature from Windos doesn't work in Amiga systems, but if your game or program use the special fonts loaded they are show, for example my experiment fame Sabrina, cans show the the chinese and japanesse languages even in the menu but only under Windows in MorphOS and AmigaOS4 not, but the text inside the window they were showed perfectly in these Amiga systems.




    Hi there - would it be possible to make a short video showing this? I am not sure I get it. Thanks.
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.17
  • »27.07.21 - 16:13
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 484 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    pikewerfer schrieb:
    Quote:

    Templario wrote:

    The special charapters or symbols as in the cases of cirilic for Greek, chinesse or japanese kanji, they can show if the program or game uses them, but not if the program or game use the system default fonts and you use MorphOS with other language for example english, this feature from Windos doesn't work in Amiga systems, but if your game or program use the special fonts loaded they are show, for example my experiment fame Sabrina, cans show the the chinese and japanesse languages even in the menu but only under Windows in MorphOS and AmigaOS4 not, but the text inside the window they were showed perfectly in these Amiga systems.




    Hi there - would it be possible to make a short video showing this? I am not sure I get it. Thanks.




    You can also use the FlowStudio editor to test extended characters. In UTF-8/TTEngine mode, it uses a secondary font backend called TTEngine which is also used by some newer MUI apps like Iris and/or Wayfarer to have character support beyond the classical codepage range. MUI support for the new font backend has been introduced in MorphOS 3.12.
    In theory, you should be able to copy/paste UTF8 data from within a Wayfarer HTML page or load a UTF-8 coded text document with extended characters. You have to integrate new fonts using Tools/TTEManager instead of Tools/FTManager, though. At some point, both the legacy font system and the extended one will most likely be merged but currently they basically coexist for the time being.
  • »27.07.21 - 16:41
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Templario
    Posts: 447 from 2012/4/28
    Quote:

    pikewerfer escribió:
    Quote:

    Templario wrote:

    The special charapters or symbols as in the cases of cirilic for Greek, chinesse or japanese kanji, they can show if the program or game uses them, but not if the program or game use the system default fonts and you use MorphOS with other language for example english, this feature from Windos doesn't work in Amiga systems, but if your game or program use the special fonts loaded they are show, for example my experiment fame Sabrina, cans show the the chinese and japanesse languages even in the menu but only under Windows in MorphOS and AmigaOS4 not, but the text inside the window they were showed perfectly in these Amiga systems.




    Hi there - would it be possible to make a short video showing this? I am not sure I get it. Thanks.




    Humm, I don't know how make a video with it, I use this with Hollywood language and make test and error to know what work and not.
  • »27.07.21 - 17:33
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 43 from 2021/7/9
    Quote:

    cyfm wrote:
    You can also use the FlowStudio editor to test extended characters. In UTF-8/TTEngine mode, it uses a secondary font backend called TTEngine which is also used by some newer MUI apps like Iris and/or Wayfarer to have character support beyond the classical codepage range. MUI support for the new font backend has been introduced in MorphOS 3.12.
    In theory, you should be able to copy/paste UTF8 data from within a Wayfarer HTML page or load a UTF-8 coded text document with extended characters. You have to integrate new fonts using Tools/TTEManager instead of Tools/FTManager, though. At some point, both the legacy font system and the extended one will most likely be merged but currently they basically coexist for the time being.



    Oh wow - super-interesting information! So we basically have a legacy font installation workflow using FTManager & a new font installation workflow using TTEngine! Great. I will test the new workflow asap naturally.

    @cyfm - one quick question: should I uninstall the fonts I installed via FTManager before reinstalling them via TTEngine? Or would it be ok to actually install them twice? How would they be shown in the system fonts list if we do so?

    @all - this is a really cool crowd, and I absolutely am enjoying my journey into MorphOS so far. I would like to continue - so I will now try to get better hardware (I currently have a Mac mini G4 1.25). What would the currently fastest machine be for MorphOS? Are there upcoming PPC machines one might want to pre-buy?

    And I will definitely try to help getting more font onboarded :-)
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.17
  • »28.07.21 - 11:17
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11606 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > What would the currently fastest machine be for MorphOS?

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13168&forum=11

    > Are there upcoming PPC machines one might want to pre-buy?

    There are newish and upcoming Power(PC) machines, all of them without the prospect of MorphOS being ported to them, so do not pre-buy if MorphOS is what you want to run.
    As the MorphOS team has always said, the possibility of a port to hardware that the MorphOS team doesn't happen to own already or that a MorphOS team member doesn't want to get anyway necessarily depends on the respective hardware being donated to the MorphOS team.
    If you want a newly available (as in unused) machine that's in G5 ballpark performance-wise (but unfortunately lacks AltiVec/VMX SIMD) and that MorphOS already supports, you could try to get an A-Eon AmigaOne X5000 (or just its CyrusPlus mainboard).
  • »28.07.21 - 15:45
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    NewSense
    Posts: 1244 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    pikewerfer wrote: @ cyfm - one quick question: should I uninstall the fonts I installed via FTManager before reinstalling them via TTEngine? Or would it be ok to actually install them twice? How would they be shown in the system fonts list if we do so?

    I have installed both fonts you sent me, and though they seem to be "seen" when installed through the FTManager (they have not currently been uninstalled from FTManager) , they are then not recognised once installed with TTEngine in FlowStudio as an available font, and neither are many of the fonts I have installed in my Sys:Fonts/_ttf directory as they are not shown as available as TTFonts for use in FlowStudio.

    I too managed to get the Syntax font you sent me, viewable in Morpheus v1.77.

    However, as you commented, and I have also remarked on MorphOS-Storage that Morpheus is somewhat CPU intensive and "flaky", but sadly Carsten Siegner has not fixed this program, just moved onto something else, yet again, leaving it half-finished (optimistically speaking), which is a pity as it did, like many of his projects, show some good ideas, just rarely stable/completely fixed.

    So, sadly the Syntax type font (OT CFF) is virtually unrecognised in many other applications, so far during my time testing it, which is a pity (Morpheus is the only application that has loaded/used it, which is strange that you should have tried it in that program and it worked - first time lucky - are you lucky at cards too 8-D).

    PageStream 4 won't recogonise the Syntax font in its font lister, once all the fonts have been installed in the Sys:Fonts/_ttf directory. Though WordWorth 7 loads it as an available font, but won't input the characters on the screen, whereas the Helvetica font you sent me does load/input characters on screen, and seems to work quite normally, even displaying the extended characters in PageStream 4.

    I tried to get RNOPublisher to load the Syntax and Helvetica font, which it seemed to do, but won't load all the extended character set, and also won't save the document as a PDF as it generates an error requester stating -
    An unexpected error occurred
    Unsupported ttf format (cannot find a necessary table) (detail 8)
    (loadttffont/292)
    The program will quit, but a backup of the current document
    has been written to the RAM:RNOPublisher_crash_backup.rnd file
    Please report the error to the program author

    Which means I have to contact jPV about that error - but I have other points to raise about the program as well - so standby jPV for an email from me in the very near future.

    The Helvetica font pikewerfer sent me works in most circumstances, though only PageStream 4 is able to display the extended characters fully, as I cannot think of another MorphOS suported program that would allow Font Ctrl-C Mnemonic input or Ctrl-D Unicode input or even Windows type Alternate keypress input, like PageStream offers, but as the Syntax font is not really recognised in almost all of the applications I have tried so far it may be a step too far to get it to be recognised as it needs to be with the current TT Font engines/libraries that are part of MorphOS at this stage of development, but if others want to try the font they should contact pikewerfer to be able to do so, as I feel sure he would appreciate all the help he can get, if others have the time to test the fonts with MorphOS.
    Quote:

    pikewerfer wrote: @all - this is a really cool crowd, and I absolutely am enjoying my journey into MorphOS so far. I would like to continue - so I will now try to get better hardware (I currently have a Mac mini G4 1.25). What would the currently fastest machine be for MorphOS? Are there upcoming PPC machines one might want to pre-buy?

    Quote:

    Andreas Wolf wrote: . . . you could try to get an A-Eon AmigaOne X5000 (or just its CyrusPlus mainboard).

    @ pikewrefer - That would be a big outlay for you for such hardware, with you not knowing how much use you will get out of the system at this stage.

    If I was you, which I'm not, I'd try to get hold of a PowerBook A1138 or A1139 (both 1.67GHz G4 portable models), or another MacMini G4 (1.5GHz 64MB VRAM - "silent upgrade") model, from a system cost perspective, as those models are good at what they do. As I use a 1.5GHz MacMini for what I do most days, and I think you'll find, initially at least, it takes up only a small desktop area, or slotted onto a shelf, and you can use USB2 wireless mice or trackballs, and Bluetooth keyboards if you dual-boot with Mac OSX and use the pairing from there to initiate a bluetooth keyboard, which is what I do, or just use a standard USB2 keyboard, so you can sit back on a sofa/couch and access your machine in comfort, maybe even from a bath:-D, with a bluetooth keyboard, as you can control the mouse functions by using the Windows/Command+cursor key(s) or Windows/Command+Alt/Option+cursor key(s), or Shift+Command+cursor key(s).

    The PowerMac G5s are the most powerful Apple produced models supported by MorphOS AFAIK, but they are also the heaviest, largest, most power hungry systems that are available, and I've ended up with failed CPUs, which need to be replaced out or just swapped, and then thermally re-calibrated with Apple Service software CD, which can be obtained usually from an online search, or helpful MorphOS user, but Power Mac G5 models can generally be obtained fairly cheaply.

    This is just an oversight on hardware available, that I have learned from while using MorphOS, for you to get a realistic perspective for you to choose from. 8-)

    MorphOS cannot read more than 1.8Gb of RAM, if I've got that figure correct, or thereabouts, so no matter how much more RAM you fit it won't be useable under MorphOS. :-(
    MacMini 1.5GHz,64MB VRAM, PowerBooks A1138/9 (Model 5,8/9),PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP), iMac A1145 2.1GHz 20", all with MorphOS v3.17,Airport,Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL,MiniMax,Firewire/USB2 & MacOSX 10.4/5.
  • »29.07.21 - 04:26
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  • jPV
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jPV
    Posts: 1890 from 2003/2/24
    From: po-RNO
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    I tried to get RNOPublisher to load the Syntax and Helvetica font, which it seemed to do, but won't load all the extended character set, and also won't save the document as a PDF as it generates an error requester stating -


    RNOPublisher isn't a proper test case here, because it bypasses the operating system's font system completely. I decided to use Hollywood's internal font engine for using/rendering ttf fonts on the application, and it might have some limitations compared to what the actual OS is capable to. And the PDF saving uses what libHaru (Hollywood's plugin is based on that) offers, the error you got is from it and I can't do anything for that myself... should ask from Hollywood's author for plugin options or libHaru developers, but I don't think it's actively developed anymore so chances might be slim.
  • »29.07.21 - 10:01
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 43 from 2021/7/9
    @NewSense - thank you so much for all of your help! So I daresay we can conclude: if we want to create a Monotype Free Type Package for MorphOS users, then it should be OT TTF. These get recognized by most apps, and even those applications that cannot fully grab the complete char set can at least get the first two codepages, i.e. writing European languages would definitely be possible. So let me see what I can do here. It would be nice to give something to this community.

    @Andreas & NewSense - concerning the hardware: I strongly believe that the future of our everyday work will be cloud-based. My whole work day consists of sitting in front of a browser - I hardly ever open anything else.

    My browser contains everything I need to work: Slack, Google Docs, YouTube, JIRA, Confluence, Sharepoint, Drift, MS Office Online, etc. I have a browser with about 20 open tabs. The only separate app I have is my mail client - and even that I could do in my browser.

    Now, of course it is fun to work with lots of apps to do different things - especially retro stuff. But concerning work, only speed and browser power is relevant.

    Which means - if I want to use MorphOS for work I need to make sure that: a. it runs on systems that are really fast and b. have a browser that is cutting edge.

    At the moment, MorphOS is only running on Legacy Systems. So I will get a G5 and see how fast MorphOS will run for me. But naturally I hope there will be a new PPC computer that is fast and high-end somewhere in the future. And if there is, I would be more than willing to support and also donate to get MorphOS ported. :-)

    Concerning the browser - I really like Wayfarer. And I will naturally support it to get as good as Chrome :-) Because once it is, MorphOS would be a really inexpensive awesome alternative for companies who work with web apps all the time, but only have limited budget for their hardware. If they have to buy 10 G5 Macs and pay 79 bucks per seat instead of buying 10 M1 Apple Macs .... well :-) Plus I would then start using it for work as well :-D
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.17
  • »29.07.21 - 11:45
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 43 from 2021/7/9
    BTW - started testing some of these web apps:

    SalesForce (Lightning): is working fine, but loading VERY slow (--> need faster machine/more RAM)

    GoogleDrive: Also seems to work - but is way too slow to actually work with it (--> need faster machine/more RAM)

    YouTube (okay, so this is nice-to-have - since I use it to listen to music while I work): works fine - a bit slow, but fine

    So far, it looks like the browser can do it, and so can MorphOS. The hardware is just not up to it. Looking forward to testing more on a faster Mac G5.
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.17
  • »29.07.21 - 12:52
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 484 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:

    pikewerfer wrote:

    @cyfm - one quick question: should I uninstall the fonts I installed via FTManager before reinstalling them via TTEngine? Or would it be ok to actually install them twice? How would they be shown in the system fonts list if we do so?




    You probably should install fonts both ways even. The managing tools are basically needed to create some short path metadata for the related engines. As I've mentioned already, both systems are not fully merged yet. So you most likely have to install fonts which you want to use everywhere including Unicode capable MUI apps with both managers as it is now.
    Applications which have extended character support automatically use TTEngine then, the "legacy" ones do fall back to FTEngine.
  • »29.07.21 - 13:46
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 43 from 2021/7/9
    Quote:

    cyfm wrote:
    You probably should install fonts both ways even. The managing tools are basically needed to create some short path metadata for the related engines. As I've mentioned already, both systems are not fully merged yet. So you most likely have to install fonts which you want to use everywhere including Unicode capable MUI apps with both managers as it is now.
    Applications which have extended character support automatically use TTEngine then, the "legacy" ones do fall back to FTEngine.



    @cyfm - thanks so much! I will install them "twice" and see what kind of results I am getting. BTW - can I in any way help with setting up the new & improved font flow in MorphOS? I am an expert in fonts, but know not a lot about coding apps :-) If nothing else, I can provide all kinds of fonts for you to test with....
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.17
  • »29.07.21 - 15:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11606 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> MorphOS cannot read more than 1.8Gb of RAM, if I've got
    >> that figure correct, or thereabouts, so no matter how
    >> much more RAM you fit it won't be useable under MorphOS.

    > My whole work day consists of sitting in front of a browser - I hardly
    > ever open anything else. My browser contains everything I need to work:
    > [...]. I have a browser with about 20 open tabs. [...] concerning work,
    > only speed and browser power is relevant. Which means - if I want to use
    > MorphOS for work I need to make sure that: a. it runs on systems that
    > are really fast and b. have a browser that is cutting edge.

    With MorphOS, there are at least those problems (probably more) with your browser requirement:
    - MorphOS can only use up to 1.7 GiB RAM, which means only up to 1.5 GiB for the browser, which surely wouldn't suffice for 20 web apps running concurrently
    - MorphOS can only use 1 CPU core, no matter how many there are in the hardware, so this single core will have to run all your web apps
    - even the latest PowerMac G5 is 16 years old, which shows performance-wise
    - Wayfarer lacks a JavaScript JIT compiler, making modern web apps run even slower

    > At the moment, MorphOS is only running on Legacy Systems.

    While probably not everyone would agree with calling the X5000 a legacy system, MorphOS running on it has the same limitations mentioned above (yes, also performance-wise, although it is more than a decade younger than the latest PowerMac G5).

    > I hope there will be a new PPC computer that is fast
    > and high-end somewhere in the future.

    There have been for some years (as I linked to in comment #44). Direct links:

    https://www.raptorcs.com/TALOSII/
    https://www.raptorcs.com/BB/

    I guess if the MorphOS team had (a) Blackbird(s), a port would be highly likely.

    > once it is, MorphOS would be a really inexpensive awesome alternative
    > for companies who work with web apps all the time, but only have
    > limited budget for their hardware. If they have to buy 10 G5 Macs and
    > pay 79 bucks per seat instead of buying 10 M1 Apple Macs .... well :-)

    I really don't think this reasoning makes sense, first for the reasons mentioned above, and second because AMD64/x64/x86-64 hardware with G5 level performance can also be had for (next to) nothing. I don't see any economic incentive for companies to utilize Power(PC) systems running MorphOS for their employees.
  • »29.07.21 - 15:36
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 43 from 2021/7/9
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    I really don't think this reasoning makes sense, first for the reasons mentioned above, and second because AMD64/x64/x86-64 hardware with G5 level performance can also be had for (next to) nothing. I don't see any economic incentive for companies to utilize Power(PC) systems running MorphOS for their employees.


    Haha - agreed. A really cheap box with a free Linux will get you there. Sad but true. :-)

    So nostalgia and fun are our main drivers here. But I still think we could make the effort? We need more memory access, being able to access more CPU power plus a port to a high-end machine. Sounds doable - I believe a good scrum team could get there in a few months.

    How about a kickstarter/fundraiser to buy a BB?
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.17
  • »29.07.21 - 22:52
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Zetec-s
    Posts: 180 from 2008/7/10
    From: Cheshire, UK
    You've reached the same point that we all do after using MorphOS, the need for speed!

    Hence, why I picked up a G5 after starting with a MacMini.

    MorphOS and particularly Wayfarer are so good, you just know that with a JIT Java implementation and more modern hardware it really would be able to be a proper daily driver, rather than a weekend bit of fun.
    PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5Ghz/2GB MorphOS 3.17 Registered
    Powerbook 1.67Ghz/1.5GB MorphOS 3.17 Registered
    MacMini 1.5Ghz/1GB MorphOS 3.17 Registered
    Efika 5200B 400Mhz/128MB MorphOS 2.3 Registered
  • »29.07.21 - 23:59
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11606 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > We need more memory access, being able to access more CPU power

    The restrictions to 2 GiB memory addressing and single-core processing are part of the Amiga heritage. It's part of what enables MorphOS to transparently run Amiga programs.
  • »30.07.21 - 00:17
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 43 from 2021/7/9
    Quote:

    Zetec-s wrote:
    You've reached the same point that we all do after using MorphOS, the need for speed!

    Hence, why I picked up a G5 after starting with a MacMini.

    MorphOS and particularly Wayfarer are so good, you just know that with a JIT Java implementation and more modern hardware it really would be able to be a proper daily driver, rather than a weekend bit of fun.


    That's just it! Being a newbie here, I can honestly say that this OS is so much fun and impressed me with its slick, cool design, and just awesome features. BUT - to turn it into the machine I boot every morning, I need speed, power - and a great cutting edge browser. The BB 4CPU board is $2,048.28. I would definitely pay this to get a modern MorphOS machine! (I would need some time to get the money saved up - but hey!).

    Now, I do understand that Amiga applications are important to a lot of people. To a newbie like me, they are not that important. I'd rather have power, speed, browser. :-)

    I work as a Scrum PO (amongst other things), my experience has been that a good team can definitely find ways to get there once one defines a goal. Being the new guy, I am still unsure what the goal of the community is?

    Have a legacy system to support Amiga apps - is that the main focus?
    Or port it to new, faster machines to go next level - is that something that many people want? Or are Zetec-s and myself a minority?
    Or, if there is a fair balance between those two options - would there be a possible compromise? Maybe two different builds of MorphOS?

    Another question would be budget & commitment - I strongly assume that most (if not all) devs are doing this as a hobby. How much money would we be able to raise to get new hardware for dev purposes? Let's assume we get some BB machines - how many stories can we allocate to which developers? What would the commitment be? Who does sprint planning?

    Oh, and finally - sorry for being so nosy and curious - if I am going on everybody's nerves, it is totally ok to tell me to shut up and let it be :-D
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.17
  • »30.07.21 - 09:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11606 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I am still unsure what the goal of the community is?

    The "community" is far from a homogeneous mass. Everybody has his/her own ideas of what should become of MorphOS in the future. What's important to understand though is that MorphOS is not an open source project. It's closed source so only the MorphOS team decides what will become of it.

    > Have a legacy system to support Amiga apps - is that the main focus?

    Kind of. I'd say that the main focus of MorphOS on Power(PC) has been to incorporate as many modern features as possible without breaking the Amiga application compatibility. So far, there has been made no change or improvement that breaks the Amiga application compatibility that was introduced in the very first public MorphOS release 21 years ago.

    > Or port it to new, faster machines to go next level

    Thing is, either the Amiga compatibility is kept, then even when porting MorphOS to new, faster Power(PC) machines like the Blackbird, MorphOS won't be able to address more than 2 GiB RAM and use more than 1 CPU core (or 1 hardware thread of a CPU core), among other restrictions imposed by the AmigaOS API compatibility (like lack of memory protection, which btw is one reason that MorphOS feels so fast), ...or the Amiga compatibility is abandoned, then everything is possible (64-bit, SMP, memory protection), and porting MorphOS to AMD64/x64/x86-64 makes more sense than keeping it on Power(PC) for obvious reasons.
    Plans for a modernized non-PPC MorphOS "NG" were first announced a decade ago. MorphOS on AMD64 was first shown 2 years ago. No public news since.

    > would there be a possible compromise? Maybe two different builds of MorphOS?

    That's a reasonable suggestion, but the manpower of the MorphOS team might be lacking for this. They are doing this in their spare time for virtually no payment.

    > Another question would be budget & commitment - I strongly assume
    > that most (if not all) devs are doing this as a hobby.

    Exactly, all of them.
  • »30.07.21 - 12:12
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  • Cocoon
    Cocoon
    pikewerfer
    Posts: 43 from 2021/7/9
    @Andreas_Wolf - thanks for the feedback. If the Amiga compatibility is the big item here, then staying where we are seems to be the sensible option. Too bad. As I personally love the look & feel of the OS, but do not really need the old Amiga Apps. But I suppose I am a minority then.

    Let's wait and hope for the NG version. Which would seemingly solve my problems.

    Since all of these devs are doing it as a hobby, I might as well sign up and ask if I can help in any way. Like I said: I know about fonts, and I can do sprint planning.

    And hopefully, I can also supply some fonts for MorphOS, working on that.
    Mac Mini 1.25 GHZ, 1 GB RAM, MorphOS 3.17
  • »30.07.21 - 13:20
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