ARM for the future?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    >>> this started circulating 5 days ago:
    >>> http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1228/prcspec13iu.jpg

    >> How accurate do you think that document is? Could it really
    >> be a Nintendo internal document or just an elaborate fake?

    > We'll know for sure in a few days I guess.

    We now know that this sheet must be hoax as it talks about a "32nm process" whereas IBM has to say:

    "IBM plans to produce millions of chips for Nintendo featuring IBM Silicon on Insulator (SOI) technology at 45 nanometers (45 billionths of a meter)."
    http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/34683.wss

    No information on core count (just "multi-core") or frequency, unfortunately. And Nintendo doesn't reveal any better info either:

    "CPU: IBM Power®-based multi-core microprocessor."
    http://e3.nintendo.com/hw/#about

    So let's wait and see if the older triple-core rumour turns out true.
  • »07.06.11 - 23:19
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> does the A2 have AltiVec/VMX?

    > Don't know but they could always add it.

    Yes, of course they could, but what I would like to know is whether IBM's stock A2 core (as used in the PowerEN and Power BQC chips) has it. I ask because I've read conflicting third party statements on that matter (and no statement by IBM itself).

    > IIRC some of the PPCs used by Nintendo are standard parts with
    > enhanced vector units.

    Yes, Gekko is PPC750CXe plus custom vector unit, and Broadway is PPC750CL (which already includes the same vector unit).

    > I wonder could this be something like a set of A2s with a
    > POWER7 style vector units bolted on the side.

    With "POWER7 style vector units" you mean VSX? Thing is Nintendo claims the Wii U to be backwards compatible to Wii. Assuming there's no real emulation involved this means the vector unit of the new CPU must be either identical to or a superset of Broadway's vector unit. This would rule out VSX (as well as any other standard vector unit like AltiVec/VMX). On the other hand, there could always be more than one, but I doubt it ;-)
  • »08.06.11 - 00:13
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2714 from 2003/2/24
    @minator

    ARM for the future!

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »08.06.11 - 07:11
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  • Jim
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Jim
    Posts: 4968 from 2009/1/28
    From: Delaware, USA
    @ takemehomegrandma

    If these specs are even close to accurate, this new PPC is much more powerful then any announced ARM.
    "Never attribute to malice what can more readily explained by incompetence"
  • »09.06.11 - 09:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If these specs are even close to accurate

    What specs? I don't think we have any for this Power Architecture chip yet, except that it has more than one core and is manufactured in a rather conservative build process. Or did I miss anything? Or do you refer to the debunked hoax spec sheet here?
  • »09.06.11 - 10:31
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    except that it has more than one core and is manufactured in a rather conservative build process.


    Only high performance high end stuff tends gets built on the latest nodes. The high volume and especially low cost stuff is usually a generation behind. Everyone does this, even Intel.

    It's also easier to build something new on an existing proved process than build it on a newer ramping process. You'll probably find it'll move to 32 or (more likely) 28 nm once they've ramped properly.

    Quote:

    Or do you refer to the debunked hoax spec sheet here?


    Some of it is clearly wrong, but some (e.g. eDRAM) is clearly correct.
    It's not that adventurous anyway, the important number - single precision floating point - is lower than the PS3's Cell.
  • »09.06.11 - 23:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Some of it is clearly wrong, but some (e.g. eDRAM) is clearly correct.

    If some of it is wrong the spec sheet as such is wrong and can't be a genuine Nintendo spec sheet I think. Should some details match however I'd regard it as coincidences or educated guesses by the hoaxer at best.
  • »10.06.11 - 00:47
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Key technical features of Freescale's newly announced i.MX6 CPU's include:
    > [...]
    > - Multistream-capable HD video engine delivering 1080p60 decode,
    > 1080p30 encode and 3D video playback in HD
    > - Exceptional 3D graphics performance with quad shaders for up to 200 MTPS
    > - Separate 2D and vertex acceleration engines for uncompromised user
    > interface experiences

    Vendor of the GPU cores announced two months ago:

    http://www.vivantecorp.com/fsl.html
  • »22.06.11 - 15:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2714 from 2003/2/24
    From Freescale FTF:

    Freescale Demonstrates Breakthrough Quad-Core ARM(R) Applications Processor

    "Freescale Semiconductor (NYSE: FSL) kicked off the 2011 Freescale Technology Forum Americas in high energy fashion today by demonstrating one of the industry's highest-performance quad-core applications processors. The forum's opening keynote presentation featured a live demonstration presenting the multimedia capabilities of Freescale's i.MX 6Quad applications processor."

    http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1576641&highlight=

    Edit:
    Video of this 7 days old silicon here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0lkZlDTq8Q

    :-)

    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma 22.06.2011 - 18:55 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »22.06.11 - 16:26
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I actually think my Efika MX would kick at least Sam440's butt.

    Found some NBench figures of both to compare.

    Efika MX: http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=14836#14836
    Sam440: http://amigadev.free.fr/powerpc/nbench.html

    Result scores (for 800 MHz each):

    Efika MX:
    - MEMORY: 4.87
    - INTEGER: 5.15
    - FLOATING-POINT: 1.22

    Sam440 (scaled from 553 MHz | scaled from 667 MHz):
    - MEMORY: 2.54 | 2.52
    - INTEGER: 5.13 | 4.46
    - FLOATING-POINT: 3.56 | 3.56
  • »28.06.11 - 02:11
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> Currently the A9 is in PPC G4 territory performance wise.

    >> which clock rate in G4 do you think a 1.2 GHz (which I think is the
    >> current max) Cortex-A9 roughly resembles performance-wise?

    > I believe they're quite similar clock for clock.

    Also here, found some NBench figures of both to compare.

    Cortex-A9: http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=14836#14836
    G4: http://amigadev.free.fr/powerpc/nbench.html

    Result scores (for 1.0 GHz each):

    Cortex-A9 (one core of dual-core OMAP4):
    - MEMORY: 6.52
    - INTEGER: 6.19
    - FLOATING-POINT: 6.82
    - BYTEMARK INTEGER: 25.4
    - BYTEMARK FLOATING-POINT: 12.3

    G4 (scaled from 400 MHz | scaled from 1.4 GHz | scaled from 1.5 GHz*):
    - MEMORY: 7.49 | 5.76 | 4.49
    - INTEGER: 6.69 | 8.27 | 5.76
    - FLOATING-POINT: 9.24 | 6.47 | 9.02
    - BYTEMARK INTEGER: 20.7 *
    - BYTEMARK FLOATING-POINT: 16.3 *


    * my machine
  • »28.06.11 - 02:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Nothing too surprising there. I do expect the G4 will be better at floating point - FP has never been ARM's strong point (the Cortex-A15 should be a lot better).

    That said a 15 year old benchmark is probably not a great test - can you run CoreMark?
  • »28.06.11 - 22:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > can you run CoreMark?

    I guess it could be compiled and made to run on Leopard. But that requires registering with EEMBC, which I won't do.
  • »28.06.11 - 22:38
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > I'm not sure Krait based chips are really sampling at 2.5 GHz
    > already. Some sources say the MSM8960 will only clock up to
    > 1.2 GHz and it will take until the APQ8064 to actually reach 2.5 GHz

    New info:
    http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011/07/05/new-qualcomm-2011-2012-roadmap-and-soc-specifications/

    Apparently, my doubts were justified and 2.5 GHz Krait will indeed not come until APQ8064 scheduled for 2012 at earliest, but MSM8960 scheduled for Q4/2011 is intended to clock between 1.5 and 1.7 GHz, not just 1.2 GHz which was claimed by the source I quoted.
  • »09.07.11 - 21:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    >> Probably the fastest ARM around right now CPU and GPU wise

    > Yes, it's 20% higher clocked than the SoC on the Snowball board

    Apparently, they decreased clock frequency from the annnounced 1.2 GHz to only 1.0 GHz as well:

    "Samsung Exynos4210 Cortext-A9 dualcore 1.0GHz"
    http://www.origenboard.org/about.php
  • »13.07.11 - 13:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > http://www.raspberrypi.org/ [...]
    > More tech details, performance and such would interesting though.

    The SoC has just recently been revealed as the BCM2835:

    http://www.raspberrypi.org/?p=106
    http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=43&mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=36.3
  • »29.08.11 - 15:53
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    In other news, this is from GlobalFoundries:

    Quote:

    ...the company will demonstrate a 3 GHz version of a dual-core ARM Cortex A9 chip made in its high performance 28nm process and a 2 GHz version made in a low power flavor as early proof points of the node.


    Full story here.
  • »30.08.11 - 18:53
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Video of this 7 days old silicon here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0lkZlDTq8Q

    "Freescale unveiled its i.MX 6 product family in end-June, and revealed the new processors are available in sample and volume quantities."
    http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110831PD212.html

    From first silicon to volume production in 11 weeks? Doesn't sound like Freescale at all to me ;-)
  • »31.08.11 - 18:21
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    >>> does the A2 have AltiVec/VMX?

    >> Don't know but they could always add it.

    > Yes, of course they could, but what I would like to know is
    > whether IBM's stock A2 core (as used in the PowerEN and
    > Power BQC chips) has it. I ask because I've read conflicting
    > third party statements on that matter (and no statement by IBM itself).

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/22/ibm_bluegene_q_chip/

    As that detailed article doesn't mention AltiVec/VMX for the A2 core I assume that it's not there.
  • »19.09.11 - 19:55
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > I compiled a small list of DMIPS per MHz and core figures for various
    > recent and future cores implementing ARM ISA:
    >
    > ARM Cortex-A8: 2.0
    > Qualcomm Scorpion: 2.1
    > Marvell Sheeva PJ4: 2.4
    > ARM Cortex-A9: 2.5
    > Qualcomm Krait: 3.0...3.5 (estimated)
    > ARM Cortex-A15: 3.5 (estimated)

    "A new pipeline architecture increases the performance of Krait by over 60% compared to Qualcomm's existing Scorpion CPU micro-architecture."
    http://www.qualcomm.com/documents/files/snapdragon-s4-processors-system-on-chip-solutions-for-a-new-mobile-age-white-paper.pdf (page 3)

    Going by that, Qualcomm's Krait core could deliver as much as about 3.4 DMIPS per MHz and core.
  • »19.10.11 - 18:07
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    minator
    Posts: 365 from 2003/3/28
    Quote:

    Update:

    > I compiled a small list of DMIPS per MHz and core figures for various
    > recent and future cores implementing ARM ISA:


    You missed the Cortex-A7 ;-)

    :pint:
  • »19.10.11 - 23:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > You missed the Cortex-A7 ;-)

    I surely didn't miss ARM Ltd's today's announcement of the Cortex-A7 core :-) The reason it's not been on my list yet simply is that I hadn't read about the DMIPS figure for it. Doing so now I can see that it's as low as 1.9 DMIPS per MHz and core (and the figure for the Krait core is in that article as well). So this is the new revised list:

    ARM Cortex-A7: 1.9
    ARM Cortex-A8: 2.0
    Qualcomm Scorpion: 2.1
    Marvell Sheeva PJ4: 2.4
    ARM Cortex-A9: 2.5
    Qualcomm Krait: 3.3
    ARM Cortex-A15: 3.5 (estimated)
  • »19.10.11 - 23:46
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11719 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > "T50/Tegra 5 is now known as Denver, but the x86 part has been dropped for legal reasons."
    > http://semiaccurate.com/2011/04/06/nvidia-in-full-philosophical-retreat-for-tegra-3/

    More on what Project Denver has/had to do with x86:

    "T50 was going to be a full 64-bit x86 CPU, not ARM cored chip, but Nvidia lacked the patent licenses to make hardware that was x86 compatible. [...] Publicly, Nvidia's stance was that there was no need for any license because the company was not making x86 hardware. Technically, this is true, T50 is a software/firmware based 'code morphing' CPU like Transmeta. The ISA that users see is a software layer, not hardware, the underlying ISA can be just about anything that Nvidia's engineers feel works out best. T50 is not x86 under all the covers, nor is it ARM, it is something else totally that users will never be privy to. The idea was that this emulation of x86 in software would be more than enough to dodge any x86 patents that would stop the chip from coming to market. SemiAccurate has it on very good authority that this cunning plan would not have succeeded, and based on what the sources showed us, the chip never would have gotten to market. [...] So, where does a core go from here? That one is easy, it becomes an ARM core, or if you believe Nvidia PR, it was ARM all along. T50 was never ARM hardware based, we had originally heard it was an A15 or the follow-on part, that emulated x86, that information turned out to be wrong. T50 is its own unique ISA, and emulates the exposed ISA as embedded software. Think of it as an on chip x86 or ARM compiler to the low level instructions. So, between last fall and CES, out went x86, and in came ARM, specifically the ARM-64 core that is the follow up to the A15 chip."
    http://semiaccurate.com/2011/08/05/what-is-project-denver-based-on/
  • »20.10.11 - 00:52
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2033 from 2003/6/4
    Well, Transmeta reloaded then. Fine, and who developes a "Power compiler" for T50 then ;-) ?
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »20.10.11 - 12:18
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2714 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    You missed the Cortex-A7 ;-)


    "The ARM Cortex™-A7 MPCore™ processor is the most efficient application processor ARM has ever developed and dramatically extends ARM’s low-power leadership in future entry level smart phones, tablets and other advanced mobile devices.
    The architecure and feature set of the Cortex-A7 processor are identical to the Cortex-A15 processor, with differences in the Cortex-A7 processor's microarchitecture focused on providing optimum energy efficiency, enabling the two processors to operate in tandem in a big.LITTLE configuration to provide the ultimate combination of high-performance with ultra low power consumption.

    As a standalone processor, the Cortex-A7 will enable entry level smartphones at below $100 price point in the 2013-2014 timeframe that are equivalent to a $500 high-end smarphone in 2010. These entry level smartphones will redefine connectivity and internet usage in the developing world."

    http://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a7.php

    Sounds *very* interesting IMHO! This one together with the Cortex-A15 becomes the new ARM "dynamic duo"!

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »20.10.11 - 13:37
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