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Quite literally - read up on the "big.little" tech that Freescale licensed:

http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1619038&highlight=

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So if I read this correctly, they plan on putting one Cortex-A7 core in the same physical chip as one (or more) Cortex-A15 cores, and then either of these can seamlessly be powered up/down and be "taking over the show", depending on performance needs contra power consumption?

Sounds a bit complicated, but very interesting!

> if I read this correctly, they plan on putting one Cortex-A7 core in the
> same physical chip as one (or more) Cortex-A15 cores, and then either
> of these can seamlessly be powered up/down and be "taking over the
> show", depending on performance needs contra power consumption?

Yes, that's exactly what this "big.LITTLE configuration" the quote from ARM Ltd. in your previous posting is talking about means (except that it's two Cortex-A7 cores, not one). See:

http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/bigLITTLEprocessing.php
http://www.arm.com/files/downloads/big.LITTLE_Final.pdf

Adding low-power core(s) for lower overall power consumption is by the way a popular concept in ARM land:

http://www.marvell.com/company/news/pressDetail.do?releaseID=1486
http://blogs.nvidia.com/2011/09/quad-core-kal-el%E2%80%99s-stealth-fifth-core-lets-it-save-on-energy/
http://www.ti.com/ww/en/omap/omap5/omap5-OMAP5432.html
http://www.ti.com/ww/en/omap/omap5/omap5-OMAP5430.html

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It's configurable, you can have 1 - 4 A7s with 1 - 4 A15s or various combinations thereof.

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Using a smaller core to do a specific task is nothing new.
The most similar idea is Nvidia's but their system doesn't appear to be cache coherent so you have to flush the caches when switching between cores.

The big-little system is cache coherent so is a lot faster and doesn't require cache flushes. The switching can also be done at the hypervisor level so the OS doesn't even know it's happened.

The Nvidia also only uses a lower power A9 rather than the much lower power A7.


What's going to be interesting is how Intel are going to respond to this. Their super 22nm FinFET process was meant to get them down to ARM's power levels. That might happen compared with the A15 but the A7 is a complete different ball game, they don't have anything to compete with it.

>> except that it's two Cortex-A7 cores, not one

> you can have 1 - 4 A7s

I stand corrected then. Thanks for the info.

> Using a smaller core to do a specific task is nothing new.

Yes, I know that.

> The most similar idea is Nvidia's but their system doesn't appear to be
> cache coherent so you have to flush the caches when switching between
> cores. The big-little system is cache coherent so is a lot faster and doesn't
> require cache flushes. The switching can also be done at the hypervisor
> level so the OS doesn't even know it's happened.

Yes, ARM Ltd's "big.LITTLE Processing" concept is without doubt the most sophisticated one compared to the concepts currently being implemented by nVidia, TI and Marvell.

> when this guy gets so much PR with his 25$ ARM stick, maybe it would be
> worthwhile to do something similar (probably a little bit more expensive
> though) with the 5125? [...] I would join such an effort immediately.

"I [...] still have a project ongoing with an e300/400 based processor (5125)."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34459&forum=33&start=240#634260

Has anything happened in the last 5 months you might want to share? :-)

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There's not much to share yet, but I am working on something - though not at a high pace or with a high priority (yet). I am still open for ideas, know how, a helping hand, whatever, #?.

Definately keep us in the loop Zylesea.
Right now I'm looking at the P5010/5020 as a way of understanding how the T5s will work.

But any project based on the T5 would be complicated and expensive.

Applied Micro (aka AMCC - the company that does the CPUs in the Sam 440 and 460) have announced a new processor.

You were probably not expecting this

Though not directly relevant for the MorphOS world this is an interesting approach. A basis for rather cheap and energy efficient highly parallel systems - could work out well for Applied Micro.

> You were probably not expecting this :-D

Absolutely. This comes most unexpected. I'd have never thought someone would supersede nVidia regarding ARM64/ARMv8, and certainly not Applied Micro. And they're not even taking an ARM64 core from ARM Ltd. but implementing their very own core based on ARMv8. Much respect to them.
I'm now asking myself whether this is what Applied Micro was referring to when they one year ago had a multicore 2.5 GHz 64-bit architecture on their roadmap.

Edit:

"Applied Micro has been working with ARM Holdings for the past three years to not only come up with an ARM chip suitable for modern, cloudy servers, but to make sure that Applied Micro is the first out the door with such a 64-bit chip."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/28/applied_micro_arm_x_gene_server_chip/

[ Edited by Andreas_Wolf 29.10.2011 - 19:51 ]

> There's not much to share yet, but I am working on something - though
> not at a high pace or with a high priority (yet). I am still open for
> ideas, know how, a helping hand, whatever, #?.

Ah okay, I can see that it's about some kind of existing "business proposal".

On my harddiskthere are several business proposals covering pretty different topics. Some of them rather draft, some others matured and detailed. But they are not generally intended for the public. In early spring I participated my first business plan competition, but haven't won. Well, next time - maybe .

> In early spring I participated my first business plan competition, but haven't won.

It wasn't this one, was it? ;-)

No . It wasn't computer related at all.
Main prob was it was too much text and too few pictures and easy slogans. I may try another competition soon.

Wow!
http://investor.appliedmicro.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=78121&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1622781&highlight=

Hard to believe they have the resources to create this.

> http://investor.appliedmicro.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=78121&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1622781&highlight=

Minator beat you by one day ;-)

Since they are aimming at the server market, this looks to be an expensive processor.

That would negate one of the primary advantages of ARM.

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I doubt that very much, low price is a big weapon they can use against against Intel.

> Hard to believe they have the resources to create this.

They even talk about future chips incorporating both X-Gene and PowerPC core(s):

"[...] we were one of the first companies to release a Power PC and ARM on the same die about three years ago, and that's doing really well today, so you'll start to see a very interesting mix of products as we go forward. Where you'll start to see all of our best-at-breed Power PC technology start to blend with versions of pieces of X-Gene for various applications. That will be a very, very, very important intersection point, because [...] we want to maximize the investments that we are making in all of these areas, right, so if we are going to build the world's first world class server class 64-bit core, we want to make sure that we can use that core in some form or fashion going forward along with a Power PC per our customers' request so that they can have the ability to run all their legacy code and run their new code on the ARM."
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/711065/000119312511300076/d253150dex992.htm

Btw, does anybody know which Applied Micro chip had "a Power PC and ARM on the same die about three years ago"? I'm well aware of the fact that at the heart of PacketPro's SLIMpro subsystem is a 250 MHz ARM Cortex-M3 core, but the PacketPro family was only announced (not even released) in September 2010, which hardly qualifies as "three years ago".

> I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Microsoft and nVidia already have
> something ARM-based cooking for the new Xbox though.

A week ago rumours to that effect (sans the "nVidia" part) have started to circulate:

"With a heady mix of rumors, tips and speculation, I am now stating that Xbox codename "loop" (the erstwhile XboxTV) will indeed debut a modified Win9 core. It will use a Zune HD-like hardware platform--a "main" processor with multiple dedicated assistive cores for graphics, AI, physics, sound, networking, encryption and sensors. It will be custom designed by Microsoft and two partners based on the ARM architecture. It will be cheaper than the 360, further enabling Kinect adoption. And it will be far smaller than the 360."
http://msnerd.tumblr.com/post/12233928364/clarity

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Well, it makes perfect sense, it fits well within all the communicated and/or rumored timetables, and goes totally in line with everything they have done and announced this far, so I think it's a very credible rumor!

(BTW: "And who knows what technology future X-Box systems will use under the hood? ")

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IIRC There was an EEtimes article that said the predecessor had used an ARM part to do much the same thing but they never publicly announced it.

> IIRC There was an EEtimes article that said the predecessor had used an
> ARM part to do much the same thing but they never publicly announced it.

Actually, I linked to that article (on the Keelback) in the very posting you just replied to (klick on "SLIMpro subsystem"). The statement therein you obviously refer to is this:

"The Keelback device also usesan ARM core in the SLIMpro subsystem, the first time the company has revealed it has used ARM core although it now confirms the first of the PacketPro family, the Mamba device launched last year, was actually its first product featuring SLIMpro with the ARM processor."

So as you can see we're still at square one, because Mamba is the initial PacketPro chip I've been talking about in my previous posting and which was introduced less than one year ago in 2010, not "three years ago". So my question which chip with "a Power PC and ARM on the same die" Mr. Gopi talked about remains open unfortunately, unless you were referring to a different EETimes article.

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Looks like the same article I read - but may be they're not talking about processors?
ARM also does things like fabric (i.e. bus systems) and I know AppliedMicro have been using and ARM bus for some time.

--

BTW if you like more details on 64 bit ARMs...

see these and read this.