Btw why not demonstrate LinuxPPC instead? It has got wider application support. Office suites, browsers, etc etc.

Apparently it doesnt work???

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Are you sure ? Well very sorry for him.
But it believe PearPC can still be upgrade, he wasn't the only developer of the team.... I hope so ;)

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You are probably confusing it with an OS offering from Hyperion Entertainment.

Unlike that other OS, MorphOS runs *natively* on the PowerPC. You cannot run MorphOS or any real parts of it on 68K processors.


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LinuxPPC running on Mac hardware is getting more and more popular. Plus, even the small percentage of geeks who happen to own a Mac, still outnumber the current Pegasos owners by large. Moreover, a port to, say, an iBook or PowerBook notebook would be a nice supplement to a Pegasos-based desktop computer and be way more useful than any emulation-based solution as far as raw performance goes. It could be attractive to new as well as old MorphOS users who might want to own a portable computer running their favourite OS as well.

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Hi Sunshine, why are you so rude in your tone? Are you trying to provoce some info? And why are you here in the first place; could it be that you have become interested in the MorphOS/Pegasos platform after it became obvious in what pre-development state the OS4 and A1 is at (talk about "doesn't work" ), or is it just a slow day over at AW.net?

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I think he meant the MorphOS version for classic PPC machines. If not - MorphOS is designed for PPC from ground up, there was no 68K development state for it, unilke OS4.

[ Edited by warface on 2004/7/22 14:37 ]

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Probably he mistyped "moobunny" and landed here?

@takemehomegrandma

Thank you for engaging the debating points I raised with such eloquence, wit and style rather than going for the usual route of trying to engage on the personal side.

</irony>

...and no, I have all the information I need.

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So you call Apparently it doesnt work??? a debating point with wit and style? On the site where you are system admin you usually call it blatant trolling - but it seems terms change with location

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Oh, and the I know everything but won't tell you style as always You provided us with many false information in the past with the same approach, remember?

[ Edited by warface on 2004/7/22 15:14 ]

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

Actually DaveP had a point, and I see no reason why he shouldn't be allowed to state his opinion here if he wants so and does that in a way which respects the rules, even if he's not a MorphOS/Pegasos user (yet).

Anyway, bashing around each other does not help. If you're honest to yourself then there is no professional (business) perspective for MorphOS (ABOX) nor AOS4. They lack certain functionality which are impossible to implement into current systems. That's why I see the target audience for MorphOS more in the 'hobby'/'computer geek' market (when the solution is good also in the embedded market, where things like memory protection or good multi user functioanlity (just as examples) are not required).

Removing the exclusiveness of MorphOS from the Pegasos platform (e.g. by providing MorphOS for x86/emulation or Apple Macintosh computers) would kill this very market here. There is no reason to buy a more expensive, less supported and a bit outdated board for Linux (from a normal users point of view). A x86 would be a much better choise in such a case.

When Genesi can make more money by providing boards to freescale that's okay. But honest: it's not much relevant for this part of the market (exept when enough money flows back for MorphOS/Peg development, that is).

To bring it to a point: w/o MorphOS the Pegasos would be completely useless for me, as for a lot other ppl obviously. Else they wouldn't be that angry atm., which I can fully understand. But I also understand Genesi's situation. But maybe the user base should be handled a bit more sensible (after all it's a very emotional user base/ market as we all know).


Now I'm looking foreward to the next production of Pegasos2 boards for the MorphOS community. And I expect a proper public announcement about further MorphOS roadmap on MorphOS Developer Consortium to outline further direction of MorphOS development for us Developers. If there is not enough man power this wouldn't be a problem, because a lot developer whould like to help (even w/o getting monoey for their work, just for the fun), that includes me.


Now I'm going to drink some green tea and will ignore this thread for a while, maybe this PR mess (yes, it was one. honestly speaking) clears up from alone.



regards,
tokai


Edit: ignore spelling errors, it's too hot here and i am too lazy to fix now, maybe later.

[ Edited by tokai on 2004/7/22 15:24 ]

[ Edited by tokai on 2004/7/22 16:18 ]

The "apparently it doesnt work" referred to linuxppc on pegasos, taken from the post a few below Itix's and was in reply to him. A person with patience and reasonably alert should have been able to work that out.

Secondly, english not being your native tongue is excuse enough I guess, the information I need I have refers to takemehomegrandma's attempt to describe my coming here ( oh no! illegal! take me in now officer! ) as trying to shake tidbits from the information tree. Still, don't let poor reading comprehension stand in the way of a good flame eh?

As for false information, that depends entirely on a matter of perspective, and given all I have provided here is analysis and do not intend to provide information false or otherwise seems like a rather irrelevant attempt at deflection, nay defamation, to take the thread away from what seems to be the most bizzare business "plan" since Viscorps' and likely to achieve zero.

There is little point in getting into what you consider trolling, or you don't, as that seems to be entirely subjective as to where you are and who you are talking to and what is actually being said. You, meaning YOU Warface.

Still, you could waste bandwidth on personal attacks, derailing and avoiding the painful truth of the matter, or you could get back on subject. The choice is yours.

Hey,

Enough DaveP Bashing, I am fully aware of his stance on other sites,
but Morphzone is not those other sites... we expect civil communication here by everyone...

Both Gary_C & DaveP have valid arguments and questions. my veiw stands where their posts intersect. To me this all sounds like "Peg Pong"
I trully think that BBRV have plans that even Neko may not know about fully...otherwise they could not trully be the Leaders of Genesi. (period)

In addressing the Posts that companies won't spend $1000 or Euro to test out a product You are nuts... Even a small ( less than 10 employees) company would invest $1000 dollars into a product if they believed they could use it to make profit? In my own business I have invested over $10,000 dollars into its future, any real business would drop $1000 in a heartbeat if they felt that the Peg could be used as a good development tool, irregardless of which computer/ PPC market they are developing for.

Also... " the Peg II has only been available for 7 MONTHS," why are some of us thinking doom and Gloom, this is still a young product. now yes their are improvements that should be made, but all things need time. If Genesi can continue to produce boards to large & small customers ( individuals and developers ) the market will continue to grow. If they cannot feed the market they have now, who cares if more people get interested, they will not be to able to feed them either.

Personally I think this is all " Peg-Pong" Carry on...

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You're welcome here I'd be delighted to have the truth of the matter, be it painful or not, but I bet neither you or I are in posession of it, however desperately you'd like to make the impression of knowing everything. (and not only here and now)

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Well, we have a policy over at pegasos.hu - we post about things that are either released or can be taken as fact. Plans for the future which may or may not change are posted elsewhere for the very reason of maintaining absolute credibility Marketing announcements are nice and all, but tend to have the elements of marketing, and there is a fair chance of something changing and the end result being somewhat different (be it a good or a bad change).

I think all of us have our questions, but I think we'll have to wait for them to be answered

@ BBRV

I have to agree to Gary C's comments, especially "It's hard to know how to answer your question without knowing the company's purpose in reselling MOS, its target market, etc".

As for "showing off" MorphOS to potential end-users on PearPC, I too am a bit sceptical about performance issues, since the superior performance is completely unique compared to any other OS out there and thus one of the key features of MorphOS. However, I do see a point in being able to demo the OS together with some applications on a different platform to raise peoples interest. The world is surely flooded with Wintel boxes, but there are also quite a lot of PPC based Mac's out there, with users that already have a somewhat "alternative" mind (or perhaps most of them are too narrow minded to try anything besides MacOS?). It would probably make sense to wait for the next MorphOS release to fill in the last few major gaps before you make any serious moves in this direction though.

As for using MorphOS in "real products"; how about a special bundle consisting of the OS, Hollywood, and some graphic package? Could be a SCALA killer! Ultimately, it should be made as a complete package with hardware as well, perhaps also with some future lean, cheap custom hardware as a complement, a thin client made especially for remote display only, á la Info Channel? The customers would be the same as for SCALA, medium sized to big corporations and organisations. This could be a profitable market where the customers are not that price sensitive.

Another product of similar kind could perhaps be a dedicated DTP system consisting of pretty much the same thing, but with Pagestream 5.0 pro instead of Hollywood, perhaps together with some HP technology for small scale/prototype printing usage (like one of those combined printers/copiers with stapler etc, for user manual production, fanzine production, brochures and stuff like that, or perhaps large scale printers for poster production?).

See my point? Providing whole solutions, complete packages of hardware, OS and software, that together makes an application. That was two, could there be more?

As for the release date of MorphOS1.5, I have a feeling that the ambitions for the next OS release has rised during the development process (and perhaps is still rising?). Seeing the feature list (design goals) of the MorphOS/Quark:

- High Super/Usermode switch speed
- Low interrupt latency
- IntThreads and Int PCode abstraction
- Memory protection
- Symmetrical multi processing (SMP)
- Task/Thread and Clan/Chief model
- Resource tracking
- Asynchronous message system
- Virtual memory (optional)
- Recursive Memory Management
- Distributed computing
- No access to Kernel structures
- Clean design with an elegant API
- Micro/pico kernel mixture

... and then reading:

"It is a cluster of three boards with one G4 each working as a single unit and running MorphOS. The surprise is that the computational power is both enhanced by AltiVec and that the three boards are working together with three times the ability of one board. There is no degradation in the performance when they are configured as a cluster. It could be four boards or forty (or alot more)".

... about this:

http://stats.distributed.net/participant/phistory.php?project_id=8&id=437432

... makes me wonder if the next big OS release won't contain a lot more than just some added features of Ambient and a native TCP/IP stack! That could be worth waiting for IMHO!

However, perhaps a minor upgrade could be released in the meantime, a "MorphOS 1.4.3", with some "minor" features, like the TCP/IP stack integrated? Or is that too tied to the distributed computing thingy or whatever?

Anyway, MorphOS1.4.2 works fine for me. The Performance of the JIT-ed Amiga 68k TCP/IP stacks are enough for most usages, and I surely can use the current MorphOS version for almost everything I want. It will surely be nice when MorphOS1.5 gets here (whenever that may be; this fall, at the end of the year, one year, two years?), but currently I am actually looking forward more to Papyrus office and Pagestream 5 than I am to MorphOS1.5.

And who knows, whenever the next MorphOS release gets here, it might even be considered as a 2.0 release?

@ DaveP

Hey mate, take it easy! Relax!

Unfortunately, we just do not have the time today to read and respond to everything (maybe later). DaveP is welcome here and we continue to appreciate all the opinions and ideas posted - even his.

1. We are very much interested in creating a commercially valuable release of MorphOS. We are committed to our MorphOS users and are working on a Pilot now that will bring great credit to MorphOS and the Pegasos.

2. LinuxPPC works very well on the Pegasos or we would not be selling them. All the other Pilot Projects have been identified and the planning has begun. Two are already started. In the meanwhile, a fourth (since the release of the Pegasos II) OF upgrade is being perfected now thanks to the great work of Gerald, Nico and Sven. We are in a process of ongoing improvement. This has never stopped.

3. We mentioned "a year" just to make a point. The fact is we are trying to develop a business, which we now have, albeit a small one. As the profits increase, so too will our ability to pay for development.

More later. Thanks for posting!

R&B

@BBRV

Good to Hear, hopefully this thread will now get on course, but now I have forgotten what that was?

>Good to Hear, hopefully this thread will now get on course, but now I have forgotten what that was?

I was thinking of emailing Samface to join the thread and see on what course that would take us

Well, I am just going to say that in general, DaveP has backed up any arguement he's made with some kind of example or another--showing he has reasons for his questions and opinions. That is something that is often missed in many ramblings. It is nearly a textbook example of how to write an arguementive post (meant in a good way). A post of that nature generally spurs more conversation, which is generally a good thing.

I expect everyone to refrain from attacking DaveP; he has done nothing wrong here, and an outside opinion can be helpful.

-
Targhan

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already got exactly the SAME answers (since 3 years in our case), by DCE (the manufacturer).

Say goodbye to your Peg2 board!

To the others Peg2 owners . . . PRAY that they never need to be repaired . . . .as already said, the company name is different . . .not the habit.

Good luck anyway



[ Edited by Framiga on 2004/7/22 17:59 ]

@Framiga

<PLONK>

The firmware update that fixes the memory issue of linux has long since been available on the bplan website. Whomever Framiga is replying to, please check the bplan-gmbh.de website for the firmware updates page.

Thank you,
Targhan

mhhh. . . "<PLONK>"?!? the truth is hurting you?

Not at all, were there any in your post?