http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwsassenrath_en.php

In this recent interview, Carl mentions this..

"Of course, to me the hardware exception seems to be Genesi, which in fact sent me a working system that was well constructed. However, it only had Linux running, so I have never actually used MorphOS or OS4. It would be quite interesting if that hardware could run AmigaOS 4, but I do not have the time to experiment to get it running"

Should I find it strange that he never tried MorphOS?

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I don't think it's *strange*, since he didn't get the OS with his hardware and you can't expect "outsiders" to know where to look for it, or even that they *should* look for it in the first place (I say "outsiders" since Carl hasn't been following the community for years and years and can't be blamed for not knowing how things work here today).

Maybe "unfortunate" would be a better word, since not shipping MorphOS bundled with the Pegasos hardware could have at least *contributed* to a missed opportunity?

(http://www.rebol.net/builds/ - "Linux Debian PPC/Genesi" is there, and while I don't believe that MorphOS support would be there automatically if only Carl had had access to MorphOS, but it doesn't exactly *help* that he got a machine that "only had Linux running, so I have never actually used MorphOS")

One can only wonder what kind of opportunities MorphOS may have missed by not being bundled with the Pegasos...?

Someone should create a MorphOS CD with all goodies on it and send it to him (of course with the permission ofthe MOS-Team).
Maybe he should even get an early copy of MOS 2.0. I guess he would like it...

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I doubt he would have contributed back to MorphOS and it would be wrong abuse people as free PR muppets.

It could have been better idea ship to him a MorphOS CD instead of Linux and it could have been interesting to read his comments about it. But a missed opportunity? No.

It is not a missed opportunity at all. We sent Carl an ODW and he chose to develop REBOL support for the platform. We no longer shipped the PegasosPPC/ODW with MorphOS when we sent Carl the machine.

Carl also has an EFIKA. He likes it.

We are sure when MorphOS 2.0 is released Carl will give it a try on both platforms.

We are in contact with Carl and have been for years. We both wish things would have gone differently with VisCorp. The good news is we are still both interested in the future. We have shared ideas about what might be possible.

We like REBOL too.

Best regards,
R&B

I suspect if there is ever a "right time" in which support of MorphOS by Carl S., then it will happen. If no such time appears, then it won't. Don't think I'm being pessimistic, I am quite hopeful that REBOL could appear on MorphOS later--I just suspect that it is up to MorphOS to hit a few milestones in public consumption to make it more attractive of a project.

Hi Darth_X.
> Should I find it strange that he never tried MorphOS?

Hey me neither! Isn't Rebol kind of OS-less? Or, that's the impression I got from his interview. Yay/Nay?

Nay :D

from what the interview tell, rebos is hosted, but the final goal is to boot directly into rebolOS

Just came across this very interesting topic that guided me to the very interesting interview by Carl. Parts of the intie have been published arround the internet. It is cool that he is sitll in touch with Genesi although I think that the Pegasos system should have been sent with MorphOS installed on it and not Linux (personal opinion).

Mentioning REBOL and a possible MorphOS porting -in anytime- I also want to aks if there are any othe prrogramming languages running under MorphOS this time?

IMHO it's better than Carl still doesn't have MorphOS 1.4.5. I mean... since he left AmigaOS so many years ago he won't know where to get some programs/components like a tcp/ip stack, web browser, updated ambient, updated mui, reggae classes...

Don't get me wrong! MorphOS 1.4.5 is great but outsiders are used to get some components as default (tcp/ip stack, web browser,... and even if they have an amiga background some of them will expect an installer, ARexx...) and MorphOS 2.0 will probably be much more complete and will be easier for outsiders and also amigans.

When MorphOS 2.0 is released he should try it out. IMHO the downloadable CD could come in two versions, one with SDK installed and the other one without the SDK. That would be useful to avoid developers having to search the SDK in another web page, downloading various packets, updating it... is a task that have to be done by each coder. It would be easier and faster for developers to download an updated package or a MOS CD with the SDK already installed. IIRC BeOS used to include the SDK in the same CD. I don't understand why making things more difficult for developers is a "good idea". Just put the SDK in a directory ready to install.

Oh! and please include some kind of "installer" replacement with MOS2.0. Having to download 3rd party apps manually is not professional

[ Edited by Crumb on 2007/12/13 10:39 ]

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This is a point !

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Not sure what you're trying to say here? Surely it should be up to the individual user to pick which 3rd party apps to install and use?

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Insightful comment, as always. MorphOS should be more mature, in order to appeal foreign developers (not to mention users). In my view, MorphOS should not reach the same level of commodity as other operating systems. Ruling out dumb users is good.

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Good idea.

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One of the ideas in MorphOS was the absence of installer on purpose. Programs should be added to MorphOS by simply copying them wherever the user wants, and programs can be removed by simply deleting them.
Time has proven that, specially for MorphOS components, this doesn't work. But I think that, for ordinary programs, it can work indeed. I remember many AmigaOS programs that were accompanied by an installer script, that did nothing else but copy everything where the user wanted.

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Dont you mean "installing 3rd party apps manually is not professional"?

I have never actually used MorphOS.... but i tried t for a long time.

@Itix

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No, I don't. MorphOS SDK uses standard cbm installer and it doesn't sound exciting to say new developers "find a tcp/ip stack, find a browser, find an obscure installer written by cbm in the 90's and then download the SDK from a site that is not linked in any place of the official web page". Yeah, google exists, but it will also show you Zapek's site, the old sites related to MOS powerUp 0.4 and a lot of confusing stuff.


@jcmarcos
Code:

I don't agree. I think that as long as you can keep something simple there's no need to make things harder just for the sake of it. If you just wanted clever users you could probably avoid offering GUIs but I don't see the point in making an elitist system on purpose.

Most of MorphOS users are "geeker" than windows/osx users and we can live without features that others take as granted, but that doesn't mean I don't want that features or that the osx/windows features are a bad idea. Some of these ideas in fact are very good. e.g. expose feature of OSX.

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The installer was not present, but that was not a something planned.

I partly agree in that apps shouldn't write rubbish in your OS partition, but for other stuff that integrates components with the OS like the SDK it's mandatory to add some assigns and add commands to the system "path". You could copy the commands to c: but that would probably create a mess for GeekGadgets apps as you would also need /lib and other important directories. Sometimes you can't do it easily without assigns.

Just imagine you get windows with your computer and it doesn't install any app because you have to download an obscure installer from let's say "tucows.com"

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Erm, MorphOS SDK does not use Commodore's Installer. It comes with its own installer.

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Agreed that if you install MorphOS SDK you must add "execute gg:sys/s/gg-startup" to your S:User-Startup manually. And MorphOS 1.x does not have a text editor

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In the future you probably dont have those problems anymore.

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yeah, sure... download mossdk_base.lha from http://developer.morphosppc.com and explain me why the installer script asks the user to download cbm installer v43 from aminet

---------------------------------------------------------------
; -----------------------------
; Let`s use English as language
; -----------------------------
(set #help_welcome
(cat
"\n\n\n\nMorphOS SDK " #sdk_version "\n"
"?2003 by Genesi\n\n\n"
"Welcome to the MorphOS SDK installation!\n"
"This script will install the MorphOS SDK on your HD."
)
)
(set #help_askinstall "Where shall the MOS SDK be installed. (A directory will be created)")
(set #help_license "\n\n\n\n\n\nDo you accept the license agreement?")
(set #help_onlylicense "\n\n\n\n\nYou have to accept the license agreement in order to be able to install this software and be allowed to use it.")
(set #help_copylibs "Checking and installing required libraries..")
(set #help_instdevenv "\n\n\n\nInstalling DevEnv in the background .. this can take a while ..")
(set #help_instmorphed "\n\n\n\nInstalling MorphED ..")
(set #help_licensefile "License.txt")
(set #help_useradd "The following lines will be added to your user-startup:\n\n")
(set #help_copyprompt "Copying ..")

(set #help_oldprompt "You should not install MOS SDK over an old version. The old version will be renamed.")

(set #help_nohelp "Sorry. No help text available at this point.")

(set #help_updateinstaller
(cat
"An obsolete version of Installer has been found.\n"
"Version 43.3 can be found on Aminet at\n\n"
"util/misc/Installier-43_3.lha\n\n"
"gefunden werden. If possible, please update soon\n"
"to the newer version, especially if you encounter\n"
"any problems during installation."
)
)

(set #help_components "Which components do you want to install?")

---------------------------------------------------------------

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You don't have to. It's added by the cbm installer. BTW, you have to download various packages separately and later update the packages to be compatible with c++.

Code:

I hope that at least a replacement installer is included, even if it's not perfect.

[ Edited by Crumb on 2007/12/14 10:53 ]

Ah well, maybe you are right :) I havent installed SDK since 2002 or so. I probably confused to SDK updates which work without CBM installer...

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There is not and Installer which is not 100% compatible is useless. Installer can not throw "Sorry, this feature is not implemented yet" windows...

Installer could be useful, no doubt. But there are more important things to do at the moment.

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True. Though, I'm not worried if newbies dont manage to do that. Newbie coders can not usually survive on Amiga environment more than 10 minutes until they get frustrated.

Yeah, consider the sdk installation as a QI test. Only "smarter" ones pass the test, which is a first step to avoid ubercrap crashy applications later. :)

[ Edited by Fab on 2007/12/14 13:01 ]

wahaha... well, apart from the QI test there's a factor called "time". Not everyone has time to waste downloading small packets. Just like people prefer to avoid wasting time searching and downloading 100 of MUI MCCs, updating MUI4, updating Ambient... not because they don't know how to do it, just because it eats time.

Also, many people could probably be able to write their own xml parser but they use shared libraries.

I know it's not exactly the same, but people like time. I know MOS developers also lack time, but a polished OS distro with all the useful files included you'll save time to hundreds of developers.

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Agreed. In my opinion, I consider an installer as a third party tool. We already have the impressive MorphUP, and other "Commodore Installer" substitutes do exist. There should be some kind of team taking care of the installations of every MorphOS application (ugh!), and keep application programmers away from this hassle.
Impossible? Sure...

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True too. One of the things that Microsoft did right was to make programming for their systems a very easy task. Everything is in the Microsoft Developer Network ("MSDN"). Well, this company is always about making things easier for everybody, but that usually leads to the biggest problem in the coimputer industry: Ignorants using computers.
A balance has to be met.

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I have to agree, to some extent. What we need is an alternative, easier environment for less quelified programmers. Something that, perhaps, educates them to become a "real" programmer some day. The thing is: It is good that every can be a programmer.
What alternatives do we have to the full blown GCC based SDK? ARexx? Blitz basic? Free Pascal?

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There is AmigaE.

Cubic IDE is also very good but commercial. And it probably also needs that missing CBM Installer :)

And VBCC, which is also included in Cubic IDE package.

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I passed the installation hurdle, but my app keeps on crashing... - thus I guesss the installation hurdle is still too low

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Oh yes - one of the things why I actually like Vistual Studio C++ 6 is "F1"for instant help and MSDN. That way I was able to write even rather complex sw (for someone who isn't a programmer) on Win, but on MOS I kept (yet!) with my crashy simple beginner stuff...

[ Edited by Zylesea on 2007/12/14 16:39 ]