Power consumption of HW (not) relevant to MorphOS
  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    Quick test with the 2x2.3GHz G5 running a 3.10 beta (so any improvements to power management in the past 5.5 years does not apply).

    Idle: 211W compile: 215W standbye: 2.3W

    Needless to say this won't return to daily usage anytime soon....
  • »08.12.22 - 20:09
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> In light of the old discussion from some years back, do you have
    >> access to any PowerMac G5 and can measure standby there?

    > 2x2.3GHz G5 [...] standbye: 2.3W

    Thanks. This is the exact middle of the 0.9...3.7 W range mentioned back then (as opposed to the 30+ W some claimed to have measured).
  • »08.12.22 - 20:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    @Jacad: I think I'm not far away to yours: keep in mind, that monitor and WLAN-hub consumes about 60-70W too. Will check PMac allone tomorrow.
    Surprising for me is, that OF seems to have no real or efficient powermanagement (compared to OSX or even MorphOS) - did'nt expect that!

    Could be, that I have to test another G5 with different OF, because this one goes (in OF console) after 3 minutes allway to full power blowing (thermal calibratioon is OK).

    Measuringsystem is calibrated UNITEC EIM-812 performance measuring device (CATII) - should be exact enough.
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »08.12.22 - 23:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    analogkid
    Posts: 655 from 2004/11/3
    From: near myself
    Powermac7,3 (G5 2x1,8 GHz) with ADC 17" Studio Display and MorphOS 3.17, with dnetc running: 177 W.

    No comparison to OSX, since this machine is MorphOS-only.
  • »09.12.22 - 06:48
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    Kronos schrieb:
    Due to the current crisis I've bought a cheap device to measure power usage at the outlet.
    Code:

    idle compiling off(standby)
    iMac G5 72.4W 97W 3.3W 2.5GB RAM default screen brightness
    Peg2 G4 54.5W 57.2W 1.5W 1GB, Radeon 9250, some old HDD, passive PSU
    22" LG 35W ---- 0.5W 1680x1050


    Plan to add more PPC and non PPC-HW later, but the shocking result atm is that it makes more sense to run the iMacG5 standalone than running a Pegasos_G4 and an ancient TFT with similar specs.


    Measured the Efika years ago: https://via.bckrs.de/MorphOS/bench_en.html (sd card should lower the uptake quite a bit)

    Also on that site, measurements for the mac mini and pegasos1.
    I can confirm your conclusions from the total energy uptake POV as written in this thread already https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=12759&viewmode=flat&sortorder=0&start=25
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »09.12.22 - 07:51
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    @Amigaharry2

    There is no powermanagment in OF so it is normal to go into jet-mode after a while.

    The cooling on these is good enough to have the CPU(s) at full blast without damage for forever in contrast with current (x86) CPU that would easily kill themselves running full tilt on their stock coolers.
  • »09.12.22 - 08:57
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I can confirm your conclusions from the total energy uptake POV

    What's notably off though is the standby consumption of the iMac G5, where you measured 11 W and Kronos only 3.3 W.
  • »09.12.22 - 09:59
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Quote:

    Kronos schrieb:
    @Amigaharry2

    There is no powermanagment in OF so it is normal to go into jet-mode after a while.

    The cooling on these is good enough to have the CPU(s) at full blast without damage for forever in contrast with current (x86) CPU that would easily kill themselves running full tilt on their stock coolers.


    No, depends on Firmware.

    PM G5 (OF V4):

    PM 2,3 GHz : 5.1.87f allways silent
    PM 2,3 GHz : 5.2.4f1 blowing like a jet
    PM 1,8 GHz : 5.1.5f0 allways silent
    PM 2,0 GHz : 5.1.8f7 blowing like a jet

    Seems that OF Versions 5.18f7 and above dont manage that as good as older FW-revisions.
    It's also very interessting that this 2 blowing G5 have that backside blower-problem under MorphOS too, which I discribed in another thread. Northbridge becomes much more hot, than the other two G5. Astonishingly under OSX it does'nt occour.
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »09.12.22 - 10:33
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    > I can confirm your conclusions from the total energy uptake POV

    What's notably off though is the standby consumption of the iMac G5, where you measured 11 W and Kronos only 3.3 W.


    The device I've bought is really cheap so I wouldn't trust it to 100% precise.

    Difference can be up to variations in the PSU (and they decay of the notorious caps) or maybe some "wake on LAN" feature that may exist and be activated.

    FYI just did my old 27" (2560x1440) Dell and it claims 0.0W for standby and 37.3W when used. Given that is almost 1.5 times the surface of the 22" with just 2W more I am starting to suspect that the 22" is just bad.
  • »09.12.22 - 10:43
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Tested now a G2 2.0GHz/ Dual_Cpu, Radeon 9600P, HD 1x2TB, 1xDVDRW, 1x IDE2CF, 2GB RAM
    No other el. consumers

    Off: 20W
    OF: 250W (allways)
    MOS: 220W - 230W (Idle - Wayfarer loading/Playing Youtube)
    OSX: 150W - 230W (Idle - Firefox loading/playing Youtube)
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »09.12.22 - 19:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > G2 2.0GHz/ Dual_Cpu [...] Off: 20W

    That's a remarkable (and daunting) difference to Kronos' 2.3 W.
  • »09.12.22 - 22:23
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 1224 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Yeah! Can't explain it, tested twice: 20W!
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »09.12.22 - 22:53
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 872 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Just take note that some power measuring devices get completely confused if there's a bad power factor. PSUs tend to have pretty bad PF.
  • »10.12.22 - 16:30
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    With the release of 3.18 (or the 1st 3.19beta to be more precise) I decided to check up on some mothballed systems:

    PMac G4 QuickSilver 1.8GHz Radeon9000:
    idle 55W compiling 83W standby 10W
    idle with 15" ADC 75W
    -> far to high standby to be connected to mains 24/7, despite the slower CPU and smaller screen it pretty close to the iMac and it still lacks the USB2,SBLive! and Voodoo3 I had in there
  • »20.05.23 - 14:31
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:

    Kronos schrieb:
    With the release of 3.18 (or the 1st 3.19beta to be more precise) I decided to check up on some mothballed systems:

    PMac G4 QuickSilver 1.8GHz Radeon9000:
    idle 55W compiling 83W standby 10W
    idle with 15" ADC 75W
    -> far to high standby to be connected to mains 24/7, despite the slower CPU and smaller screen it pretty close to the iMac and it still lacks the USB2,SBLive! and Voodoo3 I had in there


    I suspect the stand by values may be a bit off due to measurement errors (blind currents , Phase Shifts). Would need some in depth Evaluation…
    But eventually I think it‘s a good idea to keep these machines behind a mechanically switchable power outlet like this https://www.pollin.de/images/1200x1200x90/I451056.1-goobay-Schutzkontakt-Zwischensteckdose-mit-Schalter-16-A-weiss.jpg
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »20.05.23 - 17:03
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:

    But eventually I think it‘s a good idea to keep these machines behind a mechanically switchable power outlet like this https://www.pollin.de/images/1200x1200x90/I451056.1-goobay-Schutzkontakt-Zwischensteckdose-mit-Schalter-16-A-weiss.jpg




    I use a powerbar with switch since 2nd screen is of similar vintage (2008 I'd guess) and there is no point in having it on when the iMac (or PMac and Pegasos2 before) is off.
  • »20.05.23 - 17:30
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 537 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    Did anyone provide numbers for the AGP vs. PCIe PMacG5 off/standby power ? At least I was under the impression that the AGP models were drawing way more power in standby than the later PCIe ones.
    If it would really be about 20W in standby for some models, it definitely would make a considerable ~170kWH over a year just for staying in standby ....
  • »21.05.23 - 16:37
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    @cyfm
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    Quick test with the 2x2.3GHz G5 running a 3.10 beta (so any improvements to power management in the past 5.5 years does not apply).

    Idle: 211W compile: 215W standbye: 2.3W




    Wether that is accurate is hard to tell
  • »21.05.23 - 16:56
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 358 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Quote:

    Kronos wrote:
    PMac G4 QuickSilver 1.8GHz Radeon9000:

    PMac G4 1.8 GHz is pretty nice frequency.

    Please, can you tell me what exact CPU do you use, and what Core Voltage?
    I have PMac G4 MDD now and two pairs of spare CPUs: MC7457 RX1267LC and SC7457 RX1267LC and I have in plan to exchange CPUs and overclock it.

    Thank you for any experince.


    P.S. and if this is power consumption thread, with 1600 MHz original MDD CPU XC7455B RX1400PF has power consumption cca 63 W and my spare 7457 only 33 W. So I will save some Watts ;-)

    [ Edited by sailor 22.05.2023 - 08:06 ]
    AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
    AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »22.05.23 - 07:00
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2236 from 2003/2/24
    @sailor

    Thats a single G4 Sonnet card that came with the PMac I bought when I thought I had burned the dual 1.8GHz Sonnet that had used before. Turned out if was just the motherboard so now the dual one is collecting dust.....



    This should be the one.
  • »22.05.23 - 11:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 358 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    @ Kronos
    thank you. So it should be some version of 7457 ( probably the last, the same I have, 1267 MHz ) and modded VCore, which is unknown for me. ;-)
    Because this Sonnets are rare, I thinked you did CPU swap and play with overclocking and VCore. My mistake.

    Fortunatelly I have nearly all necessary info from macrumors, last piece I missing is exact increased VCore for 1.8 GHz. So I will try 1.75 GHz + some calculated VCore value.
    AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
    AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »22.05.23 - 15:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> This should be the one.

    > So it should be some version of 7457

    Sonnet Encore/ST G4 1.8 GHz (SG4-1800, SG4-1800L) use slightly overclocked MPC7447A (or more likely MPC7447B/C).
  • »22.05.23 - 20:38
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 358 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Sonnet Encore/ST G4 1.8 GHz (SG4-1800, SG4-1800L) use slightly overclocked MPC7447A (or more likely MPC7447B/C).


    According this page Sonnet Encore 1.8 GHz used also 7457, probably the last fastest type MC7457 RX1267LC. This CPUs can run at frequencies 1.5-1.8 GHz. Also in manual from Kronos link is L3 cache visible ( but there lower freq ).
    If Kronos has 7457 or 7447 can be easily checked by L3 presence (7457 has, 7447 hasn't).

    But all this is irelevant details, point of message was, that I ask for real experience with VCore + overclocked 7457. And if Kronos made no modification, he not touched anything.
    AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
    AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »23.05.23 - 07:14
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
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    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12073 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Sonnet Encore/ST G4 1.8 GHz (SG4-1800, SG4-1800L) use slightly
    >> overclocked MPC7447A (or more likely MPC7447B/C).

    > According this page Sonnet Encore 1.8 GHz used also 7457

    Thanks for the reference, but I believe it to be incorrect. Up to 1.4 GHz is definitely 7457 yes, maybe even 1.6 GHz is (doubtful), but 1.7 and 1.8 GHz are definitely later CPUs (7447A/B/C or maybe even 7448). I doubt they sold 42% overclocked CPUs.
    See there for another reference that even says it has 7448: https://beta.ivc.no/wiki/index.php/PowerMac_G4_Upgrades#Upgrade_candidates

    There're also some hints in the original Sonnet press releases for the 1.7 and 1.8 GHz versions in 12/2004 and 08/2005, respectively:

    "These cards are based on the latest and fastest PowerPC G4 processor (used in Apple’s current PowerBook line) [...], and feature 512K of on-chip L2 cache."
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060821124418/http://www.sonnettech.com/news/press/pr2004/pr120704_sg4_prcdrop.html

    "These cards, based on the latest and fastest PowerPC G4 processor (used in Apple’s current PowerBook line) [...] feature 512K of SRAM on-chip L2 cache"
    http://web.archive.org/web/20061111032204/http://www.sonnettech.com/news/press/pr2005/pr080105_prcdrp.html

    Apple switched their PowerBooks from 7447 to 7447A in 04/2004 and to 7447B in 01/2005, so this cleary hints at those G4 iterations being used by Sonnet in their 1.7 GHz upgrade in 12/2004 and their 1.8 GHz upgrade in 08/2005.

    I have a hunch that the SG4-1800 came with 7447B and the SG4-1800L with 7448, but I have no proof on that. It would explain why for the 1.8 GHz model, the official source hints at the 7447B but another source mentions the 7448.

    > in manual from Kronos link is L3 cache visible ( but there lower freq ).

    Yes, I don't expect them to have changed the product pictures in the instruction manuals for later L3-cache-less versions just because the chip arrangement on the PCB is different, as it has no bearing on the installation process.

    > If Kronos has 7457 or 7447 can be easily checked by L3 presence
    > (7457 has, 7447 hasn't).

    745x processors can be deployed without connecting actual L3 cache to the corresponding pins. The PCB doesn't even have to have any footprint for L3 cache chip. In this case, any 745x CPU acts exactly like the corresponding 744x CPU. But I'm with you that in the case of the Sonnet Encore/ST G4 cards, 745x comes with L3 cache deployed.
  • »23.05.23 - 19:56
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 358 from 2019/5/9
    From: Central Bohemi...
    I am not insist on 7457 with Sonnet 1.8 GHz single. I just looking for real info about overclocked 7457 VCore. Information if Sonnet had 7447 or 7457 is redundant for this question. Of course can be useful for somebody who search for exact Sonnet type.

    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    745x processors can be deployed without connecting actual L3 cache to the corresponding pins. The PCB doesn't even have to have any footprint for L3 cache chip. In this case, any 745x CPU acts exactly like the corresponding 744x CPU. But I'm with you that in the case of the Sonnet Encore/ST G4 cards, 745x comes with L3 cache deployed.


    Yes, 7457 can be connected without L3 cache. For example some AmigaOne XE CPU modules has 745x without cache chips. But it makes no big sense in case of Sonnet - 7447 had these times higher default frequency and probably was cheaper. And L3 cache gives great benefit with certain tasks ( like compiling ) see here. There several posts, graph is #171.
    And if slower Sonnets with single CPU has L3 cache for sure (picture in manual) and their design was made for L3, very probably L3 was also in 1.8 GHz version, if there was 7457 CPU.
    AmigaOS3: Amiga 1200
    AmigaOS4: Micro A1-C, AmigaOne XE, Pegasos II, Sam440ep, Sam440ep-flex, AmigaOneX1000
    MorphOS: Efika 5200b, Pegasos I, Pegasos II, Powerbook G4, Mac Mini, iMac G5, Powermac G5 Quad
  • »23.05.23 - 21:00
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