PPC Laptop, something for MorphOS?
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11158 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > (12600 + 11950 + 8800 + 14400 + 12500) EUR = 60250 EUR

    Figures are now (12600 + 24000 + 10500 + 14000 + 12500) EUR = 73600 EUR. Seems the project (silently?) got significantly more expensive somewhen in the process.
  • »14.02.20 - 21:10
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11158 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Update:

    > "We fixed the end of April 2020 as the time-limit for phase 1A,
    > so we have 3 months left to raise the remaining €12500."
    > https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2020/01/pcb-design-started-carpe-diem/

    "we decided to postpone the deadline of the Donation Campaign to the 30th of June 2020"
    https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2020/04/extended-time-of-pcb-donation-campaign-and-motherboard-design-update/

    Block diagram revised:

    - changed: Diodes PI7C9X2G612GP PCIe bridge/switch
    - new: Microchip USB2514 USB2 hub
    - new (on I/O board): Realtek RTL8111 GbE controller at PCIe bridge/switch
    - new (on I/O board): Realtek RTS5170 card reader at USB2 hub

    What I find questionable is that the new USB2 hub and the new I/O board allegedly "allow to decrease the number of components in the motherboard, will reduce the production costs, as well as will reduce the debug time", when their addition does in fact not entail the omission of any component already deployed previously.
  • »15.04.20 - 17:26
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2771 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    revised:

    - changed: Diodes PI7C9X2G612GP PCIe bridge/switch
    - new: Microchip USB2514 USB2 hub
    - new (on I/O board): Realtek RTL8111 GbE controller at PCIe bridge/switch
    - new (on I/O board): Realtek RTS5170 card reader at USB2 hub

    What I find questionable is that the new USB2 hub and the new I/O board allegedly "allow to decrease the number of components in the motherboard, will reduce the production costs, as well as will reduce the debug time", when their addition does in fact not entail the omission of any component already deployed previously.


    Perhaps the choices for the hub and I/O board are allowing them to decrease the number of components and reduce production costs, when compared to their other considered choices for these items? Don't know, just guessing, and I haven't been watching this project that closely, so I wouldn't really know what they are doing. It does appear that they have very little chance to reach the donation goal, even with the extended time they have added, unless they find some corporate/company donors with deep pockets, who feel the project is worthwhile, and come up with the majority of the remaining balance needed.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »16.04.20 - 00:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11158 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> - changed: Diodes PI7C9X2G612GP PCIe bridge/switch
    >> - new: Microchip USB2514 USB2 hub
    >> - new (on I/O board): Realtek RTL8111 GbE controller at PCIe bridge/switch
    >> - new (on I/O board): Realtek RTS5170 card reader at USB2 hub
    >>
    >> What I find questionable is that the new USB2 hub and the new I/O board
    >> allegedly "allow to decrease the number of components in the
    >> motherboard, will reduce the production costs, as well as will reduce
    >> the debug time", when their addition does in fact not entail the
    >> omission of any component already deployed previously.

    > Perhaps the choices for the hub and I/O board are allowing them to
    > decrease the number of components and reduce production costs, when
    > compared to their other considered choices for these items?

    They say explicitly that the mentioned benefits result from the mentioned schematic/design changes. As I said, the change from previous revision to current revision adds components (USB2 hub and I/O board) but does not remove any. The (µ)SD connector coming from the T2080's eSDHC controller is still there, and the previous RJ45 jack coming from the T2080's RGMII controller (via GbE transceiver) has been replaced by an 8-pin header. This means that the components and/or traces the new I/O board could have rendered redundant are in fact still there.
    I'm confident there are good reasons for the recent changes, but the expressed rationale doesn't seem to fit those changes in my opinion.
  • »16.04.20 - 09:54
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11158 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Addendum:

    > I'm confident there are good reasons for the recent changes, but the
    > expressed rationale doesn't seem to fit those changes in my opinion.

    The true rationale has been revealed at about 25:00 into this video. The explanation is that the selected Slimbook chassis (see comment #150) has been designed for and comes with that I/O board, so it makes sense to utilize it. There's no mention of decreased number of motherboard components in this video.
  • »12.05.20 - 21:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2771 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    After watching that video and thinking about the whole project, I doubt that it is ever going to succeed at completing even a single working PPC T2080 laptop.

    Shame that it won't, because the idea to have a completely Open Source laptop running Open Source OS and software, is a great idea.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »13.05.20 - 03:21
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 95 from 2019/5/9
    Nice. T2080 not bad. I wonder if I'll live long enough to see next powerpc notebook after Powerbook era. ;-) Preferably with MorphOS.
    It is a pitty, that NXP T2080RDB development board is too expensive - it looks like nice toy.
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »03.06.20 - 06:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11158 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > next powerpc notebook after Powerbook era

    *cough* LimeBook Z9 *cough* ;-)
  • »03.06.20 - 09:15
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    sailor
    Posts: 95 from 2019/5/9
    > *cough* LimeBook Z9 *cough* ;-)
    Yes, exactly.
    Great plans - I remember there was AmigaOS POC on Limebook. And some discussions about Efika next developement with the same CPU ( some "three core" hybrid - one power core, one gfx core and third ??? )
    Pegasos II 1.33GHz, AmigaOne X1000, Powermac G5 Quad, iMac G5, Powerbook G4 and Z10PE-D16 WS
    MorphOS, AmigaOS, Debian, Ubuntu, OSX, NetBSD, Win7 ;-)
  • »03.06.20 - 10:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11158 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> next powerpc notebook after Powerbook era

    >> *cough* LimeBook Z9 *cough* ;-)

    > Yes, exactly. Great plans

    The THTF/MTC LimeBook Z9 was a real product, although sold mainly in Asia and South Africa (rebranded by Vodacom as the Linkbook there). So technically, this was the "next powerpc notebook after Powerbook". Of course, it was a downgrade from there in every imaginable way (except power consumption). So indeed, the T2080-based notebook can become the first Power-based successor (kind of) to the PowerBook.

    > I remember there was AmigaOS POC on Limebook.

    Nothing more than an initial, barely functional port. Or was there ever shown anything beyond the Kickstart screen?

    > And some discussions about Efika next developement with the same CPU

    Yes, and while Genesi abandoned the Efika 5121e project, THTF/MTC continued without Genesi and sold the LimePC X1 (rebranded by CherryPal as the C114/C120 outside Asia).

    > some "three core" hybrid - one power core, one gfx core and third ???

    Yes, MPC5121e has, beside e300 CPU core and PowerVR graphics core, the AXE (Auxiliary Execution Engine), a "32-bit RISC audio acceleration engine". I wouldn't call a SoC with a CPU core, a graphics core and some further custom core (AI, DSP, vector or whatever) a "hybrid" of any sorts, though, because such setup is quite usual for a SoC.
  • »03.06.20 - 16:20
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 36 from 2020/5/1
    How many "donation phases" is it now? It was five from the beginning.
  • »30.07.20 - 15:27
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11158 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > How many "donation phases" is it now? It was five from the beginning.

    Over time it changed from originally:

    1. 12600 EUR: Electrical schematics
    2. 11950 EUR: PCB
    3. 8800 EUR: Prototypes
    4. 14400 EUR: Testing
    5. 12500 EUR: Certification

    ...to now:

    0. 12600 EUR: Electrical schematics [accomplished]
    1A. 19000 EUR: PCB [81% done]
    1B. 5000 EUR: Fast SI bus simulations [open]
    2. 10500 EUR: Prototypes [open]
    3. 14000 EUR: Testing [open]
    4. 12500 EUR: Certification [open]

    Number of phases depends on how you count ;-)
  • »30.07.20 - 16:08
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  • Caterpillar
    Caterpillar
    Posts: 36 from 2020/5/1
    Thanks. So they added one phase. I donated to the first two, will skip 1B and donate again in the last tree phases.
  • »30.07.20 - 21:03
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2771 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:
    Update:

    > "As we were unable to reach the goal by July, we are
    > forced to postpone the deadline of the current Donation
    > Campaign (Phase 1A) to the 30th of August 2020."
    > https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2020/07/extended-time-for-donations/

    "As we were unable to reach the goal by August, we are forced to postpone the deadline of the current Donation Campaign (Phase 1A) to the 15th of September 2020."
    https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2020/08/15-days-more-to-donate-2000-euro-left-for-the-pcb/

    Isn't there a reason it's called deadline? ;-)


    I don't understand why there aren't more AmigaOS4 users clamoring for support of this laptop? It's likely to be the last new PPC laptop that will ever be produced (if this project ever gets to that point, and someone will risk manufacturing a few dozen of them). Trevor probably doesn't want to support it too much, as some users might hold off from buying a Tabor system (if it is ever released for sale to the general public, with a completed port of AmigaOS4), and save their money to spend on this PPC laptop instead. Although, the price difference between this PPC laptop, if it is ever produced for sale to the general public, will likely be 4 times or more, the cost of a complete Tabor system. Still, if I were someone who wanted to use AmigaOS4 daily, I would want to be able to do it on a laptop. Thanks to the MorphOS Dev. Team for giving us a great port of MorphOS to the G4 PowerBook, and some G4 iBook laptops. No matter how much money gets thrown at supporting AmigaOS4 development, MorphOS users are still lucky that the MorphOS Dev. Team keeps coding away and giving us significant improvements to the OS, that allow some improved applications to work, like the new email program, and soon, a new web browser. All MorphOS users should find a way to donate something to the MorphOS Dev. Team occasionally, to thank them for all the free updates we have received.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »03.09.20 - 18:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11158 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > [...] port of MorphOS to the G4 PowerBook, and some G4 iBook laptops

    MorphOS supports all G4 iBooks, but only some G4 PowerBooks.
  • »03.09.20 - 19:13
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Zylesea
    Posts: 1993 from 2003/6/4
    The development pace is breath taking! The project is going on now for abot 6 years now.
    Indeed it is kind of a somewhat charming idea generally, but eventually leading to nowhere. Except burning some funds, which could spend elsewhere yield a probably better outcome.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »10.09.20 - 21:54
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2771 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:

    Zylesea wrote:
    The development pace is breath taking! The project is going on now for abot 6 years now.
    Indeed it is kind of a somewhat charming idea generally, but eventually leading to nowhere. Except burning some funds, which could spend elsewhere yield a probably better outcome.


    They will likely have problems with the design, simply because by the time they are finished and ready for production, many of the parts may not be available, including the laptop case they have chosen. If the CPU is going to go through a die size reduction and the CPU package they have designed for is no longer available, that could be a rather large redesign (I would think).
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »11.09.20 - 15:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11158 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> "In future we plan to upgrade our PCB design to the
    >> more recent packaging technology for the processor."
    >> https://openpowerna2020.sched.com/event/eDr7/open-hardware-gnulinux-ppc64-laptop-potential-roberto-innocenti-power-progress-community-not-profit-association

    > If the CPU is going to go through a die size reduction and the
    > CPU package they have designed for is no longer available,
    > that could be a rather large redesign (I would think).

    I wonder if that's what Innocenti means, and if yes, what his source is. I'm not aware of a die-shrinked T2080, or any die-shrinked QorIQ T CPU. And besides, NXP would be stupid to change the packaging of a die-shrinked CPU to a pin-incompatible one. Usually, shrinked dies are being put into the same package with the same pinout as before to make sure that existing customers can use the chip as a drop-in replacement without having to do any expensive redesigns.
  • »12.09.20 - 03:17
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