Quote:

I think I gave you a decent reply about why. I certainly don't appreciate these slights against my character nor the intimation that you require "proof!" as a response to my initial post on the subject.

I am being as helpful as I can in my role, you started out just being disrespectful.

~

Let's go over it again.

The solder pads are connected. They're connected exactly as it would need to be to fit 4 chips to support 512MB. However the components etc. on the board supports 2 chips at 128MB total.

The board can be modified to support 512MB - it was designed so that no *PCB* changes had to be made and therefore minimal recertification costs - and based on a certain number of 1Gbit chips which were prohibitively expensive at the time of design and/or not generally available, and it's possible PROBABLY to fit two 2Gbit chips to use the same solder pads at the top (which make the underside ones totally irrelevant) however this is something that needs to be done in production.

Let's take an example; you might look at motherboards in the PC world which have solder pads for a second DIMM slot, but you cannot just solder in a new DIMM slot. Manufacturers save costs by not populating the components required to support the slot.

It's not possible to simply "mod" the Efika to support it. Subtle things may be missing.. missing them out may damage the hardware and your new memory chips. We simply do not recommend it because it is far more work than it is worth for you personally and for us as a company, not only that but down to minimum orders of memory chips and lead times.

As for the firmware - it needs to configure the SDRAM controller to the right settings on boot; this relies on intimate knowledge of which RAM is on board. It also requires knowledge of the configuration of that RAM (which chip is where and how many and what size). This also needs to be solved in pre-production - the RAM must be validated to work, the right settings used and tested vigorously to ensure proper operation. It's possible some RAM will not work reliably on the MPC5200B in the configuration it needs to be. It certainly will be much, much lower performance due to the restricted bus width (it drops down to 16-bit in the 4-chip configuration supported on the board, from 32-bit with just the two chips).

Therefore if you want a 512MB Efika, you need to order 1000 of them to make it worth our while, wait a long time, and have to be prepared for it not to be as fast.

[ Edited by Neko on 2008/12/5 17:29 ]

I was going to just drop this subject and let your attacks, insults and incorrect statements go, but here you go again calling me disrespectful, but this time you are changing what you have already written to correct your mistake(s). It is not I that started out being disrespectful, it is the other way around.

Quote:

Perhaps you did not see, or you choose to ignore my later post that I will quote for you.

Quote:

It seems that you prefer to again insult and attack potential new developers instead of simply answering my questions, or having a civilized discussion. I did not attack you, nor even question your knowledge until you treated me with disrespect.

Also, your previous answers just did not make sense, which caused me to continue to seek answers.

On 12/1/2008 you wrote:
Quote:

My response on 12/1/2008 was:
Quote:

And

Quote:

Now, on 12/5/2008, you have changed what you are saying and you wrote:
Quote:

That is exactly the point I was trying to make in the post I quoted myself above from 12/1/2008. The EFIKA PCB that I have is exactly the same as every other EFIKA PCB, and the same as would be used to create a 256mb, or 512mb RAM EFIKA. Yes, other components would need to be added, and/or some of them replaced to allow more RAM to work on the EFIKA, but it was POSSIBLE, just not probable, or cost effective, as I finally learned.

On 11/30/2008 I wrote:
Quote:

And it was not until after talking to Bill on the phone and reading your post today, that I got the simple answer that the Open Firmware must be altered for the EFIKA to use more than 128mb of RAM.

How difficult would it have been when I first asked my questions to simply tell me that the Open Firmware for the EFIKA configures not the maximum RAM allowable, but the exact size of RAM installed on board and the specific type of RAM chips used, like you finally did in your message quoted above, and Bill did over the phone in just a few words? You could have just said that it is too expensive to rewrite the Open Firmware for the EFIKA, or the cost of altering the Open Firmware would be X amount of dollars, which would have made it clear that it is not cost effective.

Instead, this is how you, as the manager of developer relations answers questions:

On 12/1/2008 you wrote:
Quote:

Then, on 12/2/2008:
Quote:

To which on 12/2/2008 I replied:
Quote:

I never attacked you personally, or wrote that you were incorrect in anything except that your implication that the pcb was not the same as would be used by the factory to create the 512mb, or 256mb RAM versions of the EFIKA did not seem credible to me (which turned out, I was correct about).

I did imply that I was not happy with the way in which you, Neko, Matt Sealey, Manager of Developer Relations for Genesi, were answering, or not answering my questions, treating me disrespectfully and with increasing hostility, but that was after several postings. I think that until now, I kept my postings very civil and restrained from any outright attacks on anyone's comments or answers.

I am not a door mat for you to wipe your feet on, nor am I one of the sheep to blindly follow and not ask questions when answers don't make sense.

It is unfortunate that this thread has come to this point, as I have already stated several times that it is my intention to add value to this community, not detract from it. I do not relish in stirring up any negative actions or words from anyone here, but will not sit back and take crap from anyone. I have done nothing that I need to apologize for here. All I was after was information, which I finally have acquired.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2008/12/7 10:17 ]

Hi,

I have tested a pegasos 1 with only 128Mb and it's too little for my personnal use. I usually watching a video when i do another things like surfing, simplemail is launched at the startup to scan mail everytime. So... out of memory is near.

Why efika's users are not making a list of who is interested to have 256Mb ?
With this list, you can ask bplan to have a upgrade and the price.

Hi

I'm willing to upgrade for 256MB do for my Efika.

See, that's 4 down, 996 units to go
maybe we should have known this before


posted with sputnik

<-- 1
995 (or 295) to go

may be it's will be good replacement for the "unlucky" 5121e project?
not every home user need integrated video...

btw: and if it must be amount of 300 or 1000 mobo, what if it'll be the party of totally revisited mobo with 512Mb onboard RAM or with SODIMM slot on the back of PSB and additional USB 2.0 controller with internal header for USB bracket?

EFIKA 5k2B Deluxe Edition with bbrv signatures ^^

at least, it will be better than nothing, imho...

[ Edited by r1vver on 2008/12/6 10:43 ]

>> AFAIK there is also the 1,33ghz version that has a 64mb radeon...

> Nope.

Sure, there is.

Oh? Do you have one? I could give links to show you otherwise, or I could check the one on my desk...

Here's a link for you.

And...
mm1.pngmm2.png


[ Edited by Golem on 2008/12/7 17:41 ]

I am pretty sure that Golem is correct. Everything I have read about the last PPC MacMini's has stated that the 1.5GHz PPC w/64mb of VRAM was a late revision to the 1.42GHz model. In fact, I have seen some sellers state that their 1.5GHz models came in boxes that had 1.42GHz stickers on them.

I don't know if that was the case for all of the 1.5GHz models, but it might have been true.

> Do you have one?

No.

> Here's a link for you.
> And [...]

Thanks for the *important* information, really appreciated. That's really news to me. If it wasn't for your correction maybe I would have ended up with 32 MiB VRAM eventually.
Someone with first hand information really should correct the Wikipedia article.

> Everything I have read about the last PPC MacMini's has stated that
> the 1.5GHz PPC w/64mb of VRAM was a late revision to the 1.42GHz model.

What's that to do with the 1.33 GHz model (silently upgraded from 1.25 GHz) Golem and I were talking about?

> In fact, I have seen some sellers state that their 1.5GHz models
> came in boxes that had 1.42GHz stickers on them.

Each and every 1.5 GHz MacMini was sold as 1.42 GHz originally, per both the box sticker and the computer badge. Same with the 1.33 GHz model, which was sold as 1.25 GHz.

Sorry Dave but I'm going to drop this now.

You do not have a grasp of the situation with the board, yet your initial exclamations of "I require proof!" show your arrogance on the subject.

My statements on the subject were the honest truth of the situation, which you disregarded out of hand, which is why I got a little snippy even before you decided to take me to task on my "developer relations style" - and even more so afterwards.

Don't feel too special that Bill called you. He called me beforehand to ask if he should or not, and for the want of a phone that doesn't disconnect when you hold it the wrong way, I would have been on the call, too.

It has not changed that you simply are not capable of doing it and did not have the facts at hand when you discounted my first statement out of hand.

this is the kind of stuff which just turn off support to other alternative options! Obviously you can't drop it, and the point is Amigadave was not satisfied with your responses (or the manner delivered) so he sought a second opinion.. there are a couple of you on here who have god like complexes! it's not that serious! I don't always agree with him, (amigadave) but I respect his opinion. If you're right ok, move on... I'm alway wrong out here, because sometimes I just don't get it. This shouldn't be a forum for I know more than you, so I talk to you anyway and my opinion's only what counts with smart answers or remarks. The fighting is redundant and superficial.
If it gets to the point where we can't ask relative questions, without being chastised then where will the future support will come from. I'm new to the product, but you've just turned me off!

I'm done co-signing
Sorry amigadave..you needn't respond

Quote:

Then why didn't you just drop it? No, you still see a need to vindicate your mistake(s) by continuing to try to put me down. What is your purpose for the remainder of your post below? Just what are you trying to accomplish?

Quote:

I strongly disagree with that statement. It is YOUR arrogance to insist that anyone believe that it cannot be done just because you say so, without offering an accurate answer to the "Why" it cannot be done.

My initial exclamations were simple questions asking why the EFIKA could not be expanded with more RAM when the board clearly has the solder pads for additional RAM chips on the bottom of it. There were many on this forum site that believe it could be done, one that tried to do it and failed and many different theories about what would work, or not work, but there were no clear answers from either Bplan or Genesi, UNTIL NOW!

My asking for further proof when you gave an answer to my question that was incorrect and did not make any sense (you implied that my pcb was not capable of having more RAM added) is not arrogance. Wanting to know the answer to a thing is not arrogance.

If I had a full grasp of "the situation with the board", I would not have started any of the questions. I now have enough information and I am mature enough to admit that it is financially impractical for Genesi, or Bplan to attempt adding RAM to the EFIKA, and it is practically impossible for anyone else to do so without help and permission from Genesi, or Bplan.

Quote:

I will let others judge your demeanor in your first responses toward me. Obviously I did not appreciate your attitude and lack of simple, and correct answers.

Quote:

Now I am really crushed that I am not special. Is this another lame attempt on your part to put me down further? My response to receiving the phone call was a very positive one, as Bill was very courteous, and answered all of my questions in just a few words without any crap or attitude, which is 1000% more than you have done. It was obvious to me that Bill values all of the MorphOS users and I was so impressed that last night I went to the Genesi website store looking for a way to donate through Paypal without actually buying anything. Bill somehow knew that I had purchased my EFIKA through Directron, and not the Genesi store and commented on the fact that Genesi had expended a large sum of money to get MorphOS ported to the EFIKA. I did not really know this and had not considered it at the time of my purchase, and even though I am having financial problems right now, I might have purchased from Genesi, instead of Directron, had I know all the facts at the time of purchase. After this repeated abuse from you, I no longer feel motivated to donate to Genesi today.

Quote:

It does not surprise me one bit that you are unwilling to accept, or admit your mistake(s) and continue with YOUR arrogance and superiority complex attitude. Don't think to yourself that Xyphoid and myself are the only members here that can see it.

You are right that I am not capable of adding RAM to my EFIKA, but I never implied that I could. I simply wanted to find out if there was any way for Bplan, Genesi, or any other company with the necessary tools and know-how, to add RAM to the EFIKA board. The only thing you wrote that I "discounted" was the statement

Quote:

which is not true. You are right in that I did not have the facts at hand when I discounted the above statement, but I did not need them, as it is just common sense and general knowledge that the pcb's would all be the same.

I sincerely hope that I never need any developer relation help. I would hate to put up with this abuse again.

@xyphoid,
No apology needed. I know that I make mistakes from time to time and can express my opinions too much, or too vigorously at other times. I will try to control my temper, but as I wrote already, I won't be any arrogant (bleep)'s door mat.

P.S. CubicIDE purchased at the reduced Xmas rate and I am ready to start with my first project for MorphOS on my EFIKA as soon as it arrives.

[ Edited by amigadave on 2008/12/8 16:22 ]

If there would be documents on how to upgrade memory on efika and there would be a ready firmware to allow over 128MBytes of memory. Professional who is able to upgrade the memory would charge the ammount of money it takes you to buy a Mac Mini.

This thread just points out the obvious, the efika sucks

Just about any other hack-target embedded board around are possible to do memory upgrades for, without too much hassle, but not the efica - no no, it's so special. Or something.

What's up with Genesi these days anyhow? No products, no money, neko browsing the web looking for powerpc porn by others (except aCube ofcourse!), bbrv and his blog headlines looking more and more like my spamfolder...

[ Edited by kolla on 2008/12/10 1:07 ]

@kolla

I don't know, but a few times before when Genesi went "silent" it afterwards turned out that they were too busy to chat on the web. For example the long silent periods before the LimePC revelation. Who knows? At least they have said they are working on some kind of new hardware with an aim for release in 2009.

Quote:

Your words are harsh. And I don't dislike them.

Genesi's business is not easy. Not even finding an opportunity, let alone fulfill it with a product. And then you find people like THTF in the road...

Quote:

I agree. Business opportunities are hard to find for everyone in these economically volatile and depressed times we are living in.

I am sure everyone at Genesi is working long hard hours trying to find ways to make money and finding new hardware for MorphOS to run on may only be a very small part of their plans and projects.

I don't know how much money they recouped from selling EFIKA boards, but I would guess it was not enough. How many times are they going to be willing to invest in the MorphOS community if their investments do not return a profit?

I may be a bit uninformed and naive regarding all the history of Genesi and the MorphOS development team, but I will continue to give them credit and the benefit of the doubt, continue to support them, until I learn differently.

Update:

> Someone with first hand information really should correct the Wikipedia article.

Was done in May 2010. Now reads correctly:

"The high-end model of the last revision comes with 64 MiB of video memory instead."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Mini#Processors