RAM left unused after booting on EFIKA???
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Neko
    Posts: 301 from 2003/2/24
    From: Genesi
    Quote:

    Well, no one has done it yet, but unless there is something in the firmware to prevent it (which I doubt), or something in MorphOS2.1 "EFIKA" version to prevent it, (again, which I doubt), then it should be able to add another 128mb of RAM to the underside of the EFIKA exactly where the board was designed to accept additional RAM. The manufacturer offers to add RAM if a minimum number of boards are ordered that way, so it is possible,


    It is not possible. Please do not try this.

    bplan offers custom board reworks for large customers - the "up to 512MB" is a hint to people who want to buy 1000 boards, not so they can remodel a single board for you by hand.

    Please do not make your Efika "take" 256MB RAM - it will not work, simply, because the PCB you have cannot take more than two 512Mbit chips.
    Matt Sealey, Genesi USA, Inc.
    Developer Relations
    Product Development Analyst
  • »01.12.08 - 15:39
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  • MorphOS Developer
    itix
    Posts: 1520 from 2003/2/24
    From: Finland
    @amgiadave

    Quote:


    Mine shows a 396MHz CPU and 101mb RAM, and since some of you are getting 80mb to 85mb of free RAM after bootup and I am only getting 72mb-73mb, I am now wondering if maybe I have some defective RAM.



    MorphOS reports free RAM, not installed RAM, at the boot picture. Amount of free ram after bootup depends on display mode, filesystem caches and so on.
    1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
  • »01.12.08 - 15:57
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Painkiller
    Posts: 128 from 2007/11/19
    From: Nokia, Funland
    Quote:

    Well, no one has done it yet, but unless there is something in the firmware to prevent it (which I doubt), or something in MorphOS2.1 "EFIKA" version to prevent it, (again, which I doubt), then it should be able to add another 128mb of RAM to the underside of the EFIKA exactly where the board was designed to accept additional RAM. The manufacturer offers to add RAM if a minimum number of boards are ordered that way, so it is possible, it is just that no one other than the manufacturer knows what needs to be done to make it work.


    Been there done that. It wont work I tried contacting bplan etc. but simply soldering more ram under the board wont cut it.

    Just wait for MOS to be released on Mac Mini. It is a whole lot better system than Efika.
  • »01.12.08 - 16:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:


    Neko wrote:
    Quote:

    Well, no one has done it yet, but unless there is something in the firmware to prevent it (which I doubt), or something in MorphOS2.1 "EFIKA" version to prevent it, (again, which I doubt), then it should be able to add another 128mb of RAM to the underside of the EFIKA exactly where the board was designed to accept additional RAM. The manufacturer offers to add RAM if a minimum number of boards are ordered that way, so it is possible,


    It is not possible. Please do not try this.

    bplan offers custom board reworks for large customers - the "up to 512MB" is a hint to people who want to buy 1000 boards, not so they can remodel a single board for you by hand.

    Please do not make your Efika "take" 256MB RAM - it will not work, simply, because the PCB you have cannot take more than two 512Mbit chips.





    So you are saying that my EFIKA pcb itself, not the components placed on it, is manufactured differently than the pcb's for an EFIKA capable of 512mb RAM. That sounds crazy, and I won't believe that until it is proven!

    No where in any of my messages did I say I was going to try to add memory to my EFIKA without proper documentation on how to do it. Given the fine pitch of the memory chips, I would prefer to just send it out to b-plan, or a third party that has the documentation from b-plan, to have it done, as the soldering is difficult to do without the proper tools.

    Saying it is impossible just because b-plan or genesi does not wish to disclose the information on how it is done is like saying that it is impossible for MorphOS to run on a MacMini, just because the MOS team has not released it yet and does not want to tell anyone how to do it. It is possible as it has been demonstrated. The EFIKA is capable of using up to 512mb of RAM, as it was designed to do so. If a few components need to be replaced to make it work, then the cost to do so would have to be weighed against the benefit it would provide and the other alternatives available (such as MorphOS on the MacMini, when/if it is ever released).

    Saying the EFIKA is not worth the effort and everyone should just wait until MorphOS is released for the MacMini is also stupid and wasteful. Why should I not try to get the most and best use from the EFIKA computer I already have in my hands? I am not alone in this, there are many EFIKA owners that would like to upgrade their EFIKA to 256mb, or 512mb of RAM if it were possible at a reasonable price.

    I am neither naive about my chances of getting what I want from b-plan, or crazy with my money to spend too much just to double, or quadruple my EFIKA memory, but why not at least try?

    I don't understand all the negative energy being expended to try to tell me I am wasting my time. Us Amiga users are used to fighting for what we need and want and waiting long periods of time to get them. Even after MorphOS is released for the MacMini (and hopefully a few other G4 Mac models like the iBook and PowerBook), I will still want to make my EFIKA more usable, either for myself, or to the person that I sell it to. Also, if the upgrade were known, or provided by b-plan or a third party, it would be a great benefit to the MorphOS community, as it would be easier for new users to join us at a low cost, instead of turning to the SAM440ep and pursuing the AmigaOS4.x direction.

    I won't be able to sell my EFIKA for hardly anything if it is not made more useful than it is today. Where are all the other EFIKA owners to support me and what I am trying to find out, that need more memory too?
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »01.12.08 - 22:46
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    That sounds crazy, and I won't believe that until it is proven!


    Have you checked who is this "Neko" you are replying to?

    Quote:

    The EFIKA is capable of using up to 512mb of RAM, as it was designed to do so.


    The existing Efika not. Genesi/bPlan would produce a different mainboard that would accept extra memory, if someone buys a lot of them. I don't recall Genesi saying that the Efika is upgradeable.

    You might be guessing from the PC side of things, that make a substantial effort to accept lots of variations about its memory. But the Efika is no PC.

    Quote:

    I don't understand all the negative energy being expended to try to tell me I am wasting my time.


    You might want to search for a thread here, in which someone took the time, effort and adequate equipment to attempt a modification in his Efika. It didn't work.
  • »02.12.08 - 07:19
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Neko
    Posts: 301 from 2003/2/24
    From: Genesi
    Quote:

    So you are saying that my EFIKA pcb itself, not the components placed on it, is manufactured differently than the pcb's for an EFIKA capable of 512mb RAM. That sounds crazy, and I won't believe that until it is proven!


    Read the MPC5200B manual, SDRAM controller section. The pads on the board - I believe - connect 16-bit lines from each module, to the 32-bit controller (this is the standard way to do it on the MPC5200B) and there are two chip selects available for SDRAM..

    The way I see it (and I have the schematics), adding 4 modules means connecting 4x 8-bit lines to the 32-bit controller and using the second chip select. The traces simply do not support this configuration. You need to add resistors etc. in places you can't get to and somehow escape a pin that's not escaped in the design.

    Quote:

    No where in any of my messages did I say I was going to try to add memory to my EFIKA without proper documentation on how to do it. Given the fine pitch of the memory chips, I would prefer to just send it out to b-plan, or a third party that has the documentation from b-plan, to have it done, as the soldering is difficult to do without the proper tools.


    They won't do it. Not unless you order 1000 boards, anyway.

    Quote:

    Saying it is impossible just because b-plan or genesi does not wish to disclose the information on how it is done is like saying that it is impossible for MorphOS to run on a MacMini


    Let's put it this way; it's as impossible for MorphOS to run on a Hewlett Packard HP-28C calculator as it is to MANUALLY modify an Efika to use 512MB.

    You may be able to solder on new chips to support more RAM using the top solder pads (after desoldering the old ones) but finding ones with the correct specifications that are verified to work with the MPC5200B, and then hacking the firmware to do it, is beyond most people on this forum. Even then it is not guaranteed to work.

    Quote:

    The EFIKA is capable of using up to 512mb of RAM, as it was designed to do so.


    No, it was not. It was designed to take 128MB because 512MB was cost prohibitive. The MPC5200B has been verified to use certain sizes of RAM in certain configurations with certain settings. The official line from bplan is that adding more memory requires a small board rework and sourcing new RAM chips and the minimum order is somewhere between 300 and 1000 (depending on the price per unit you wish to pay). It is not because they don't want you to try, it is because the design cannot support what you want to do to it.

    Quote:

    If a few components need to be replaced to make it work, then the cost to do so would have to be weighed against the benefit it would provide and the other alternatives available


    You really don't get it..

    You can't, it's as simple as that.


    [ Edited by Neko on 2008/12/2 18:56 ]
    Matt Sealey, Genesi USA, Inc.
    Developer Relations
    Product Development Analyst
  • »02.12.08 - 17:48
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Maybe I don't get it because no one from bplan has stated that it can't be done! You seem to know what you are writing about, so I will give you a lot of credit, but you are not an engineer from bplan.

    Neko wrote:

    Quote:

    Read the MPC5200B manual, SDRAM controller section. The pads on the board - I believe - connect 16-bit lines from each module, to the 32-bit controller (this is the standard way to do it on the MPC5200B) and there are two chip selects available for SDRAM..

    The way I see it (and I have the schematics), adding 4 modules means connecting 4x 8-bit lines to the 32-bit controller and using the second chip select. The traces simply do not support this configuration. You need to add resistors etc. in places you can't get to and somehow escape a pin that's not escaped in the design.


    This is the first time I have seen anyone write about the details of why adding more memory is physically impossible due to missing traces to the memory controller, so thanks for pointing out exactly what you think the problem is. But answer this: If the pcb was designed for only two chips of RAM as you say, why did they add the RAM solder pads to the bottom of it? What are the traces from the solder pads at the bottom of the EFIKA connected to? I mean if they intentionally left out the memory traces, why not leave out the RAM chip solder pads too?

    You are probably right in how you have read the manual and schematics, but it sure would be more believable if an engineer from bplan would confirm what you have just written.

    Not that I want to piss you off or anything like that, but I will continue trying to contact someone at bplan to clear up exactly what is possible and what is not possible with the EFIKA pcbs that have already been produced and sold.

    Maybe as you imply, it might be possible to increase the RAM by removing the 128mb of existing RAM and replace it with 256mb if the correct chips can be found. That would be better than doing nothing.

    As for what bplan will and will not do, unless you have information directly from them, other than their statement that they want a minimum number of 300 - 1000 units to produce EFIKAs with 512mb of RAM, I would rather hear directly from them.

    Again I ask, why am I being met with such negativity and now hostility. When did it become a crime to ask questions and try to find better answers to problems? A simple answer of "no it can't be done and here is why" would have been sufficient. When the why is not clear or complete, then people should expect it to be questioned.

    I am starting to feel like the bad guy just for asking questions and wanting to have more memory on my EFIKA. Give me a break!
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »02.12.08 - 22:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2060 from 2003/6/4
    @ amigadave

    Well, Neko has quite some expertise in this field. He's responsible for developer relations at Genesi. And while bplan and Genesi are still two companies they are also tied quite close together.
    Neko really knows of what he's talking when speaking about the Efika.
    He answered you quite detailed.
    In essence: There is no way to upgrade existing Efikas other than finding electrically and physically compatiblle RAM chips that would replace the both existing ones. And still it would be some kind of lottery and require additional work in the firmware.

    About your hostility feelings: I guess there aren't any. Only that most of 'us old morphers' may have the feeling of a way too often experienced 'been there, done that-feeling' (in one or the other way) and thus are not overwhelmed by those approaches. But that shouldn't stop you in general. New arrivals bring some fresh air, some momentum. I guess most ppl appreciate your enthusiasm.
    But about the RAM upgrade, as much as I would appreciate that, I doubt it is feasible. I wouldn't waste my energy on it.
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »03.12.08 - 01:08
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  • MorphOS Developer
    CISC
    Posts: 619 from 2005/8/27
    From: the land with ...
    Quote:

    Let's put it this way; it's as impossible for MorphOS to run on a Hewlett Packard HP-28C calculator as it is to MANUALLY modify an Efika to use 512MB.


    Well then, I suppose we'll have to port MorphOS to the HP-28C now, thanks a lot... :P


    - CISC
  • »03.12.08 - 06:34
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    CISC wrote:

    I suppose we'll have to port MorphOS to the HP-28C now, thanks a lot... :P


    Talking about ports... How about the MPC5121e? This complex SoC looks impressive on paper (e300 core + PowerVR 3D + AXE DSP), but in the end, performs no better than a plain MPC5200, when used by "regular" operating systems.

    Does the MorphOS Team have what it takes to make the MPC5121e shine?

    Alright, rethoric question... :-)

    My goodness!!! I've unintentionally flooded this thread, because the server didn't respond when I submitted my post. So I retried several times, all of them with failure. And now I see that every attempt really worked! How strange...

    [ Edited by jcmarcos on 2008/12/3 17:20 ]
  • »03.12.08 - 09:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2060 from 2003/6/4
    @ jcmarcos

    I'd say forget about the 5121. Who's going to make a 5121 based device? Cherrypal - seems not. THTF - well, not? Genesi - no!
    Any other producer? Sure there are some and maybe you can ask Kontron or the likes, but I doubt you will find any producer making a cheap enduser board out of the 5121. Chapter closed (at least for now).
    I have to add: unfortunately.

    The highest hopes are on the 8610. If it comes that one actually *can* become a success (given the price will be right and it won't be delayed too much).
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »03.12.08 - 15:29
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    No one wants to answer my questions?

    I will repeat them so they are clear, plus add one or two. The answer of "you just don't get it", and "it is not worth worrying about", or "just forget it, it can't be done", are not helpful and I would expect more from any manager of any kind of relations.

    1. If the EFIKA pcb was designed for only two chips of RAM as you say, why did they add the RAM solder pads to the bottom of it?

    2. What are the traces from the solder pads at the bottom of the EFIKA connected to (the controller, or nothing)?

    3. If bplan intentionally left out the required number of memory traces (as I think neko implied), why not leave out the RAM chip solder pads (on the bottom of the EFIKA) too?

    4. Somewhere on the www there exists a clip (that I have seen, but can't find again at this moment) of a salesman, or engineer at a computer show who is showing the EFIKA board. IIRC he points out the solder pads at the bottom of the EFIKA board and remarks about the ability to install additional RAM. Is this salesman/engineer (who I assume is from bplan) simply incorrect about what he is showing and saying, or is my memory of the clip just incorrect, and he does not show the extra solder pads?

    I am just trying to clear up these questions, which I think are perfectly good and reasonable questions to ask.

    Maybe the answer to all my questions is simply that bplan made a mistake in the design of the board and found it after the production run, that it could only accept 128mb of RAM, which led to their statement that neko repeated, that a "rework" of the board would be required to allow 512mb of RAM to be installed. If that is the case then the buyers should have been told.

    When I purchased my EFIKA I thought it could be expanded to a maximum of 512mb of RAM, though it might be difficult, or a bit expensive to have it done. I had not seen any information that it was impossible to add RAM to the EFIKA just a short two and a half months ago when I purchased.

    I am new to MorphOS and wish to become a valuable MorphOS developer and supporter in the not too distant future (hint to the manager of developer relations for genesi). I purchased the EFIKA because it was available, and though I knew it's limitations regarding USB1.1 and no available PCI slots, I had hoped to be able to learn about MorphOS and begin programming for it. That is still my goal, but now I wonder if I will be able to accomplish much with the limited RAM I have.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »04.12.08 - 03:41
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:

    No one wants to answer my questions?


    I've red throughly your post and, in my opinion, your own answers to your questions are right. Matt Sealey, as Genesi's developer relations manager, is the most accurate source of information about bPlan hardware, aside from bPlan themselves. Actually, the most accurate information should come from Gerald Carda and Thomas Knaebel, but I don't think they can be reached easily.
    Further down the hypothesis, perhaps they could say that the firmware is to blame, but that would be dead end too. Statistics say that hypothesis coming from me are right in 10% occasions (and that's optimistic!).
    As far as I know, there's no more new Efika boards being made, so it's just another case of taking the product as it is, it's finished that way.

    Quote:

    there exists a clip of a salesman, or engineer at a computer show who is showing the EFIKA board. IIRC he points out the solder pads at the bottom of the EFIKA board and remarks about the ability to install additional RAM.


    Indeed, that video exists, we've all seen it. But there's no clear transcription of what is said and, most of all, it wouldn't be contractual at all. But I understand you: It's not surprising that a buyer believes that the Efika's memory is expandable, while in practical, it's not. The video can be misleading about this subject.
    It's like the Pegasos own history: It has a CPU slot, with all the technical challenges it brings.it was marketed as a CPU interchangeable computer, but nobody has used a different CPU card in the same motherboard.

    I guess that, by now, you mighr think that there's been enough talk about this subject already.

    Quote:

    I am new to MorphOS and wish to become a valuable MorphOS developer and supporter in the not too distant future


    THIS is the important thing!
  • »04.12.08 - 07:46
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  • Just looking around
    r1vver
    Posts: 14 from 2008/9/30
    From: Ekaterinburg, ...
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    No one wants to answer my questions?


    q1 & q2:
    my thoughts: it's standart pcd design. I think that is cheaper to develop one common (universal) industral design of pcb for all variants than to develop some different pcb designs for each variant

    q3:
    Quote:

    amigadave wrote:
    If bplan intentionally left out the required number of memory traces...

    Quote:

    Neko wrote:
    The traces simply do not support this configuration. You need to add resistors etc. in places you can't get to


    q4:
    page: http://www.ppcnux.de/?q=node/6614
    video: http://images.pegasosppc.com/movies/ftf/efika_divx.avi


    so, for me list of problems looks something like that:
    a: variant with chip-add
    Quote:

    Neko wrote:
    The traces simply do not support this configuration. You need to add resistors etc. in places you can't get to

    1. to find mb pcb scheme
    2. to add that resistors to "places you can't get to"
    3. to make changes in closedsource firmware

    b: variant with chip-replacement
    Quote:

    Neko wrote:
    You may be able to solder on new chips to support more RAM using the top solder pads (after desoldering the old ones) but finding ones with the correct specifications that are verified to work with the MPC5200B, and then hacking the firmware to do it

    1. to find proper gigabit chips with correct specification
    2. to make changes in closedsource firmware
  • »04.12.08 - 08:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    @jmarcos,

    If that is the case, I should probably insist that bplan purchase my EFIKA mobo back from me due to false advertising and I will just wait for MorphOS to be released on the MacMini, like the rest of the members here.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »04.12.08 - 19:42
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  • Moderator
    Golem
    Posts: 766 from 2003/2/28
    From: Denmark
    ...
  • »04.12.08 - 20:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2060 from 2003/6/4
    @ amigadave

    With humble respect, but I guess there's nothing you can blame bplan on. Re-read the specs at bplan's website: http://www.bplan-gmbh.de/output.php?PAGE_ID=168&LANG_ID=2

    Quote:


    Memory
    128MB DDR RAM 266MHz

    other configurations from 32MB upto 512MB are available on
    request



    I don't see anything that says more Ram could be added later...

    Let me add I would really like if there was a possibilty, but noone promised there would be any. Thus, i am not surprised or disappointed.
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »04.12.08 - 21:39
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  • MorphOS Developer
    itix
    Posts: 1520 from 2003/2/24
    From: Finland
    @amigadave

    Quote:


    I am new to MorphOS and wish to become a valuable MorphOS developer and supporter in the not too distant future (hint to the manager of developer relations for genesi). I purchased the EFIKA because it was available, and though I knew it's limitations regarding USB1.1 and no available PCI slots, I had hoped to be able to learn about MorphOS and begin programming for it. That is still my goal, but now I wonder if I will be able to accomplish much with the limited RAM I have.



    Why not? 128MB is not much these days but GCC does not need megabytes of RAM.

    It is perfectly possible to develop software with 128MB system. I have developed software using Peg1 with 128MB of RAM and with Amiga 1200 running MorphOS with 96MB of RAM. On those days MorphOS used less ram than MorphOS 2 now does and you have to watch out memory usage but still it is usable if you are not intending to port Firefox.
    1 + 1 = 3 with very large values of 1
  • »04.12.08 - 23:14
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Henes
    Posts: 507 from 2003/6/14
    Quote:


    I had hoped to be able to learn about MorphOS and begin programming for it. That is still my goal, but now I wonder if I will be able to accomplish much with the limited RAM I have.


    MorphOS itself was initially created on and using machines with as much as or even less RAM than an Efika. So...
  • »04.12.08 - 23:37
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    xyphoid
    Posts: 870 from 2008/7/11
    From: Delaware, USA
    with all its limitations and issues, it's
    just not a practical system for computing
    enjoyment for first time or seasoned
    morphers for that matter. Memory just
    runs out too quickly is doing multiple
    tasks, and the inability to stay consistant
    with universal serial bus issues.
    I gave up arguing on this a while back
    because I know realize I was dooped!
    I love the OS, but it's just too hard
    to enjoy it on efika
    I'm with Dave...it should be a return
    policy, but hey? I'll be very cautious
    with the next platform release. I also
    wanted to tinker with programming after
    d/ling recent software, it was mentioned
    that it's not an issue so we'll see
    Hang in there AmigaDave.....

    On another note, it should be clear in the
    future what limits the next ported hardware
    has.. One I know of already is that if
    you do get a mac mini, it should be
    a 1.5ghz as that one has the radeon 64mb
    graphic card, which MorphOs requires at
    a minimum to do anything serious. Just
    tell us the issues upfront!

    Efika is what it is ...a lowcost intro
    into MorphOS. I'd love if it could be
    made to do more,but That's how it is.

    posted with sputnik
  • »05.12.08 - 00:59
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Thanks for the support xyphoid.

    I just got off the phone with someone from Genesi and I must say that all my questions were answered to my satisfaction and more. I was very surprised to get the call, and I have more respect for Genesi now than I have ever had before for any Amiga related company.

    I will not quote what was said without asking his permission out of respect, though nothing secret was talked about, to my knowledge.

    As others have pointed out, programming for MorphOS has been done in the past on machines with the same, or less memory than I now have on my EFIKA, so I will start with what I have got and go as far as I can. As I stated before, as a beginning programmer, it will likely take some time before I am working on projects large enough to create a problem on my EFIKA. By then, hopefully all of us will have new hardware available to us, to run MorphOS on, be that a MacMini, or the next step in small, efficient MorphOS computers.

    I am going to stop regretting my choice to purchase an EFIKA and make the best of it. I bought it because MorphOS is the best "future AmigaOS", and what it lacks is software to bring us more MorphOS users, not just different hardware. I can't help on the hardware side, so I will do my best to learn more about programming for MorphOS and help where I can with new software. I hope that more members here will do the same.

    Edit: xyphoid keep it quiet about which MacMini is the only one to come with the 64mb Radeon graphics card! Are you trying to drive the prices of them up, or what??? They are hard enough to find as it is right now. I have been keeping a watch on them just to see if I can get lucky and find one for about $200 US dollars, which is about half of what they are selling for on eBay.

    [ Edited by amigadave on 2008/12/4 18:30 ]
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »05.12.08 - 01:24
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    xyphoid
    Posts: 870 from 2008/7/11
    From: Delaware, USA
    @AmigaDave
    ha ha you and me both buddy!
    just let me know so we don't butt heads
    they are already high..
    Mom's the word though! :-) :-)

    posted with sputnik
  • »05.12.08 - 03:22
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2795 from 2006/3/21
    From: Northern Calif...
    Quote:


    xyphoid wrote:
    @AmigaDave
    ha ha you and me both buddy!
    just let me know so we don't butt heads
    they are already high..
    Mom's the word though! :-) :-)

    posted with sputnik


    Maybe we should start a list or site for MorphOS users that are in the market for G4 MacMini computers with a list of all found sales listings on the Internet and papers and have the group only do the bidding, so we are not fighting each other and raising the prices up beyond where they should be.

    The first ones on the list get the first MacMini's purchased. If they don't like the price, then it goes to the next one down the list, and so on. There would have to be a set maximum amount to bid, or offer for them, but if the Mac was got for less, then it would just be the good fortune of the person on the top of the list at that moment.

    The last few on eBay seem to have sold for about $300 to $400 US dollars. Some come with keyboards and a mouse and even a small LCD monitor, but some come with nothing but the MacMini itself.

    I think that $300 is not a bad price for the 1.5GHz version w/64mb Radeon graphics card, with, or without a keyboard or mouse. But it would be nice to find one for around $200 - $250 and just hold on to it until MorphOS3.x is released.

    I like the reports that it is running almost twice as fast as the Pegasos2 w/G4 @ 1GHz. I think that report may have been from the 1.42GHz MacMini instead of the 1.5GHz model.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »05.12.08 - 03:33
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Painkiller
    Posts: 128 from 2007/11/19
    From: Nokia, Funland
    Quote:


    On another note, it should be clear in the
    future what limits the next ported hardware
    has.. One I know of already is that if
    you do get a mac mini, it should be
    a 1.5ghz as that one has the radeon 64mb
    graphic card, which MorphOs requires at
    a minimum to do anything serious. Just
    tell us the issues upfront!


    Well that is not entirely true. You can do just fine with lower ammounts of gfx ram as long as you don't use 3d layers.
  • »05.12.08 - 06:15
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  • ZB
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    ZB
    Posts: 115 from 2008/9/29
    Quote:

    xyphoid wrote :

    CUT ... if you do get a mac mini, it should be
    a 1.5ghz as that one has the radeon 64mb
    graphic card... CUT


    AFAIK there is also the 1,33ghz version that has a 64mb radeon...
    ---
    Morphing the Phoenix...
  • »05.12.08 - 12:58
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