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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    Zylesea wrote:
    TMHG:

    Well, this ARM chip may be nice, and I am prett ysure it will power some nice netboks, but what does this chip has to do with MorphOS?


    Nothing.

    Nothing at all.
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »24.06.09 - 14:13
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Surprising as it may seem (or not), I do agree both with takemehomegrandma and Velcro_SP: The MPC5121e is a nice clever chip, but not commercially viable. So, even if it would be a perfect match for MorphOS, it won't happen.
    I'd also like to say that cache coherency is not a mandatory feature for an operating system to work. You just have to rewrite every driver that needs hardware cache coherency. Ouch.
    Genesui suffered from communication problems with freescale that led to the shocking discovery that the MPC5121e wasn't meant at all to be compatible with the MPC5200B. That's enough for a company to pull the plug in development.
  • »24.06.09 - 16:00
    Profile
  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1370 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ jcmarcos

    Quote:

    Because LimePC and MorphOS deserve each other.


    I realize that this was not your intention but I find this statement to be bordering on an insult considering the shady people involved on the LimePC side and the technical limitations of the hardware (graphics performance / supported screen resolutions, especially).


    Quote:

    Knowing that the original plan was about MorphOS only hurts more.


    As far as the end user experience goes, I doubt that existing MorphOS fans would have enjoyed LimeOS a lot even if it had been based on key MorphOS technologies. (The difference between BeOS and BeIA is probably a good point of reference.)
  • »24.06.09 - 17:22
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||


    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 16:05 ]
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  • »25.06.09 - 01:00
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 27.04.2011 - 06:54 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »25.06.09 - 01:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Velcro, I understand that you're very happy with your Cherrypal, and I wish you lots of fun with it...

    :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »25.06.09 - 08:00
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:

    Quote:

    jcmarcos wrote:

    Because LimePC and MorphOS deserve each other.


    I realize that this was not your intention but I find this statement to be bordering on an insult


    Now that's an energic answer! By the way, I very much appreciate a MorphOS Team member talking about this, even when they must be quite fed up with the Cherrypal fiasco. And, yet again, some of us still whine about this...

    Quote:

    considering the shady people involved on the LimePC side


    That's a very important point: According to Genesi, LimePC management people (Tsinghua Tonfang, THTF) are crooks. No matter how good their product is, you can't do business with people like this. That just puts an abrupt end to the story. So forget about the chinese, and go copy ourselves freescale's development board (easy, yeah).
    The problem is that technical matters can be considered separate from commercial matters (but, in the real world, doing so is suicidal). This alows for debates like this that never end. Don't ya love it?

    Quote:

    and the technical


    ...but now we get technical!

    Quote:

    limitations of the hardware (graphics performance / supported screen resolutions, especially).


    Indeed, the MPC5121e is limited. But you already ported MorphOS to the even weaker MPC5200B in the Efika, and quite an interesting toy resulted. Its XGI video option was also very low end.
    It took very long, and also Genesi paid for this development. Perhaps we "LimePC wankers" shoud shut up, raise some serious money and talk business to you in order to get same thing for "our" LimePC.
    The MPC5121e is (was?) s a CPU for low end netbooks, PDAs, and other toys. But we've heard a lot of times (so happily accepted) that "just enough computing" motto from Genesi. I really think the chip is good for many low end uses. It even manages to move that boring Linux distro in the Cherrypal. And no doubt that lack of cache coherency excuse is for sissies: The MorphOS Team can, of course, do anything in their own code for it to run on an HP calculator, if required.
    For me, it's much worse that there was no "generally available" driver for the PowerVR unit. But that's all history now.

    Quote:

    As far as the end user experience goes, I doubt that existing MorphOS fans would have enjoyed LimeOS a lot even if it had been based on key MorphOS technologies.


    I can imagine that MorphOS role in the real (never produced) LimePC was just boring user interface, none of the fun we enjoy tweaking here and there.
    Now I wonder if even a single line of code was ever written for LimePC. I guess not.

    By the way, of course, I realize that the MorphOS Team is not a "Genesi department" at all. I guess everyone here does. And I also realize that the Team must be quited bored about us kicking this dead horse again.

    So off to some other matter. How's that x86 port doing?

    (me ducks)
  • »25.06.09 - 08:16
    Profile
  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1370 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ jcmarcos

    Quote:

    Indeed, the MPC5121e is limited. But you already ported MorphOS to the even weaker MPC5200B in the Efika


    I have said this before and I will say it again: I consider an Efika Open Client to be clearly superior to the Cherrypal nettop with regards to overall performance as a desktop computer. (Ability to use *modern* screen resolutions, running 3D games, working with the default "layers3d"-enabled MorphOS 2.x user interface, and so on)

    The PowerVR unit of the 5121e was designed for mobile phones and similar devices with comparably small screen sizes, thus represents a *major* bottleneck in the context of high-resolution desktop computing. (Clearly, the MPC5121e was targetted at very different applications so this should not come as a surprise.)

    Optimizing code and writing special drivers is not going to somehow turn the 5121e into a performance monster. It is not and it was not designed to be one.
  • »25.06.09 - 10:18
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    ASiegel wrote:

    I have said this before and I will say it again:


    And we all thank you for your patience in repeting things you've already said.

    Quote:

    I consider an Efika Open Client to be clearly superior to the Cherrypal nettop with regards to overall performance as a desktop computer.


    Well, all this because the MPC5200B based Efika does NOT have video functions, and thus you must plug in a video card in its PCI slot, which incidentally is very powerful. We all remember the announced version with a graphics chip soldered on board (which was going to be a weak XGI).
    Using the MPC2151e PowerVR core does make sense, and at the same time does not make sense. Doh!
    Adding better graphics is something that could be done in an hypothetical MPC5121e board, if it had a PCI slot (the development board has). But this kind of setup would be, effectively, the same as the old MPC5200B Efika. We were talking about the existing LimePC/Cherrypal, so it's a no-go.
    If I remember it correctly, the MPC5121e offers no superior clock speed, cache, nor interfaces (well, there's SATA and better USB).

    All this talk about a computer that never existed! Are we amigans or what?!

    [ Edited by jcmarcos on 2009/6/25 12:09 ]
  • »25.06.09 - 11:08
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 16:03 ]
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  • »25.06.09 - 12:13
    Profile
  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1370 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    @ Velcro_SP

    Quote:

    In fact there is no comparison. The CherryPal is absolutely superior to the Efika.


    Try to run a resolution higher than 1024x768 on your Cherrypal. Running a cheap 22 inch widescreen monitor in its native resolution works like a charm using an Efika Open Client...


    Quote:

    going through assembly hell for an extended period of time and going back and forth on the forums and IRC for help on making the Efika work, as many Efika users do, I can't believe you would make the statement you just made.


    I was specifically talking about the Efika Open Client which was a pre-assembled computer based on the Efika 5200B mainboard. Various resellers have been offering similar Efika systems that included pre-installed versions of MorphOS and / or Linux.
  • »25.06.09 - 12:48
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12081 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > If I remember it correctly, the MPC5121e offers no superior [...] cache

    You don't:
    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6176&forum=11#61282

    > nor interfaces (well, there's SATA and better USB).

    And you don't think SATA and better USB are superior to PATA and slower USB?

    Besides, the MPC5121e is 2-way superscalar (dual integer units in the e300c4 core), while the MPC5200B is non-superscalar (single integer unit in the e300c0(?) core).
  • »25.06.09 - 14:40
    Profile
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Andreas hitting right o the spot as always. I just love when you remember posts from OTHER people that have forgotten about them!
  • »25.06.09 - 16:47
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 15.05.2011 - 08:55 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »26.06.09 - 00:45
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12081 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Genesi doesn't have the assembled Efika Open Clients at their
    > webshop anymore, but I'm pretty sure they were a lot more expensive
    > than the $249 CherryPal.

    I also don't remember anymore the price of the Efika Open Client Plus, but I do remember that you thought it to be "an okay price" :-)
  • »26.06.09 - 01:08
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 16:25 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »26.06.09 - 01:20
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12081 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > that's not inconsistent in the slightest

    Absolutely. I never indicated otherwise.

    > but nice triple indexing and iterative cross-querying of my routine
    > comments.

    I don't understand. Care to explain?

    > I'd point you to archive.org to figure it out by reviewing deleted
    > pages

    Naturally, that was the first thing I tried. Unfortunately, the Wayback Machine doesn't archive pages from HTTPS.

    > but am concerned your head would explode.

    Why do you think so?
  • »26.06.09 - 02:44
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    @Velcro_SP

    Quote:

    Speaking of cost, Genesi doesn't have the assembled Efika Open Clients at their webshop anymore, but I'm pretty sure they were a lot more expensive than the $249 CherryPal.


    A completely pointless argument, in a completely pointless discussion. Sorry.

    But speaking of the Efika, I see that Directron.com now has a sale on the Open Client case ($99.99), as well as the motherboard+case bundle ($174.99). This is good opportunity for anyone interested in the Efika. :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »26.06.09 - 08:21
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 16:07 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »30.06.09 - 23:15
    Profile
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12081 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > speaking of the Efika, I see that Directron.com now has a sale on
    > the Open Client case ($99.99), as well as the motherboard+case
    > bundle ($174.99).

    Yeah, and for a while already :-)
  • »01.07.09 - 01:00
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 16:11 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »03.07.09 - 13:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2053 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:


    Velcro_SP wrote:

    Then here's this other fascinating thing, $368.


    Isn't the seller this meet.mr.nrg guy from aw.net...? That guy is actually a really hilarious one.
    His threads are quite amusing and have a serious popcorn factor.
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »03.07.09 - 21:38
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Ruud
    Posts: 335 from 2009/2/2
    From: Hampshire, UK
    Quote:


    Isn't the seller this meet.mr.nrg guy from aw.net...? That guy is actually a really hilarious one.
    His threads are quite amusing and have a serious popcorn factor.



    Indeed it is. He doesn't always make a lot of sense but he does boast a high entertainment factor ;-)
    "We live, we die, we laugh, we cry"
  • »03.07.09 - 22:34
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12081 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I noticed this LimePC X1 unit on eBay. Appears to be a CherryPal.

    No, cannot be a "CherryPal". Look, it doesn't even have the cherry logo. meet.mrnrg says so ;-)

    > Then here's this other fascinating thing

    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28546&forum=2
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4916
    http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=26314&forum=17&start=40#497644
  • »04.07.09 - 00:49
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
    |||

    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 19.04.2011 - 16:01 ]
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  • »04.07.09 - 02:22
    Profile