> The high price of X1000 was without development costs, just part prices
> and production costs?

That's what Trevor said years ago, yes.

>>> In business you calculate the price by making a sum of costs, adding profit and then
>>> dividing it with calculated sales

>> Usually, you can't calculate sales numbers beforehand, just estimate them.

> based on a estimate you calculate how many devices you must sell that
> your costs are covered.

Either you estimate the sales numbers in order to calculate the minimum sales price from the total costs, or you estimate the "optimal" sales price in order to calculate the minimum sales number from the total costs. Trying to do both at the same time would mean solving an underconstrained equation :-)

> there was something like £1699 on one of a-eons sheets I think

Yes, see comment #98. This is incl. OS4 and 20% VAT.

> Tabor is nothing more than embedded hardware

While the SoC is aimed at the embedded market by its manufacturer, the Tabor board clearly targets the desktop market judging by its features (RAM slot, SATA/USB/GbE, PCIe, audio, HDMI).

> running a obscure OS

I heard Linux runs fine on it :-)

> I think one of the leading AmigaOS devs mentioned that work on Tabor
> will not start before X5000 is completed

See comment #325 :-)

@Andreas

that is what I meant... you calculate the price by estimating sales (based on past experience mostly). You can of course also set a price and hope that you sell enough :).

And yes Linux runs on it but hardly anyone will buy it for that purpose I assume... (at least not as long only Linux runs on it)

Quote:

Sorry to be pedantic, but that would be OS4 fanatics or AmigaOne not "Amiga" fanatics. Amiga fanatics would be users of the Commodore (& Escom 68K) computers. Head over to EAB and yo will find the majority of them can't stand the OS4 platform.

No, those would be Amiga Flat Earthers.
I have Amiga legacy hardware, but if MorphOS did not exist, I might be using OS4 myself.

Boat anchor alert! An AWN user claims MorphOS 3.10 is indeed being delayed until the X5000 is released with OS4.1. Is this the speculation of an average user? Or is it based on some specific knowledge?

I know members of the MorphOS Team have stated this is not the case, but it is hard to not speculate that it is indeed the case. The MorphOS Team is a very, very well oiled machine. They have churned out update after update like clockwork until now.

June 2012 - MorphOS 3.0 released
July 2012 - MorphOS 3.1 released (1 month)
May 2013 - MorphOS 3.2 released (10 months)
September 2013 - MorphOS 3.3 released (4 months)
December 2013 - MorphOS 3.4 released (3 months)
February 2014 - MorphOS 3.5 released (2 months)
June 2014 - MorphOS 3.6 released (4 months)
August 2014 - MorphOS 3.7 released (2 months)
May 2015 - MorphOS 3.8 released (9 months)
June 2015 - MorphOS 3.9 released (1 month)
??? ???? - MorphOS 3.10 not yet released (15 months and counting)

This is the now by far the longest delay in between 3.X releases. What is the only difference now compared to before? The only difference now is the included X5000 support. Sure it could all be a coincidence, but as a speculating end user it looks like 3.10 is being delayed because of OS4.1 for X5000 taking forever and the MorphOS Team are being gentlemen, not wanting to throw A-Eonkit under the bus.

[ Edited by redrumloa 17.09.2016 - 21:47 ]

It has nothing to do with it os4 or the x5000. Even with the x5000 available since January there wouldn't be MorphOS 3.10 yet.

It is simply not done yet and we would even release MorphOS without the x5000 hitting the market.

The MorphOS team is independent and wants to deliver quality. We for sure will not jump for a rushed release because of the x5000 getting available. I personally do not expect high sales of MorphOS just because of the x5000. It is nice to support that system, but the number of people getting it for MorphOS is quite limited.

From experience most amigaos4 users do not buy MorphOS fort heir existing systems.

They did not for Pegasos2 (which may be because of the already existing and unlimited MorphOS key on second hand systems), but sales of MorphOS for the Sam460 work the other way around and are very very low. The x5000 is even more expensive, but considering that macs are cheap and amigaos4 users won't buy MorphOS I do not expect wonders.

The problem with the Sam460 may be the lack of overlapping graphics card 2D hardware acceleration support between AmigaOS 4.1 and MorphOS.
Swapping video cards in and out to even try a different OS is not really fun.

Quote:

Quote:

I think that all MorphOS users greatly appreciate the attention to detail, and the level of quality, which has resulted in quality releases of MorphOS, with very few serious bugs that needed squashing shortly after any of the release versions.

I agree that the number of sales on MorphOS to new X5000 owners, will most likely be very small, as most AmigaOS4.x users don't want it, and very few MorphOS users will buy an X5000, when it will run only marginally better/faster, than the available G5 PowerMac computers which are already supported.

Quote:

When I decided to buy an X1000, I was very skeptical about it being completed and making it to market. I thought that if Trevor did pull it off and get it made, I wanted one, as I believed that Trevor would surely not continue to pour money into a company that had little chance of ever turning a profit by selling hardware. I firmly believed that the X1000 would probably be the last AmigaOne computer ever created, which is part of the reason why I wanted one of them (being a collector of Amiga and Amiga inspired computer systems). At that time, I did not know Trevor very well, and had no idea how deep his Amiga addiction ran, and how many hundreds of thousands of dollars he was willing to sacrifice to continue the A-Eon experiment. After Trevor assured me that he was going to go forward with the Cyrus project board(s), he tried to convince me to NOT buy an X1000, and instead, wait for the X5000. Having already made up my mind about the X1000, I decided to stick with my previous plans, and order an X1000 from the 2nd production batch (it was too late to get an X1000 from the first production batch, by the time I made up my mind to purchase one, so there was no rush in filling out the order form, until a 2nd production batch was announced), as I was still unsure that there would be a 3rd, or 4th production batch of X1000's produced, due to the difficulty in finding PA6T CPU's, at an acceptable price. Maybe what I have just written will give you better understanding of what I was thinking, and when I decided to purchase an X1000, even though, at that time, I still expressed doubts about the project in the forums.

Quote:

NO! It is not beyond you, because you just explained it to the other forum member(s) in one of your other replies. Profit is an inappropriate word perhaps, when the development costs are removed from the calculations for determining the retail sales price of the X1000, but it is the easiest word to choose, when describing the amount of money above the parts, assembly and shipping costs, to get the X1000 put together and into the hands of users. AmigaKit made a profit on each sale of an X1000, to offset the labor cost to assemble, configure, and ship each computer to the buyers. It is unclear if Trevor and A-Eon made a small amount of money on each sale, broke even, or suffered a small loss (on top of the huge loss of the development costs).

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=41093&forum=33&start=220&viewmode=flat&order=0#787378

Quote:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41093&forum=33&start=240&viewmode=flat&order=0#787500

Quote:


Quote:

@redrumloa

It has been emphasized by several MorphOS developers, several times, that MorphOS 3.10 is in no way dependent on the X5000, not in any way whatsoever.

I see no reason not believing them on this.

Instead, I see two possible reasons:

1) There might be something true about this (although bigfoot quite rapidly contributed to the discussion: "Just a friendly reminder that not everything you read on the internet is true.")

2) The next update is going to be quite major. Many hints about new features has been leaked during the passed year, both from shows/gatherings and from various threads here and there. All in all, it seems like it's going to be big! Maybe even 4.0 big?

Maybe some combination of the two reasons?

There has at least been two releases of the 3.10 SDK, so things are happening...

Anyway, thanks for the summary of releases!

Quote:

Quote:

Aside from the distaste for them, they are literally not Amiga boards - that distinction is legal. Eyetech or AEon did not receive any license from the trademark holders to use the Amiga brandname. I've had to correct wikipedia more than once, especially against assumptions that "AmigaONE is part of the Amiga brand". It is not. It is a completely different brand, which just happens to have the word "Amiga" in it. I could go out and sell AmigaTWO branded condoms for all the connection that has. (And while Sky often gets away with suing people for using the word "sky" in things, that's because so many IP judges are bought and paid for by Rupert Murdoch.)

So then, understand my frustration when this subject is still trending. MorphOS developers said no. "AmigaONE" X5000 is just an overpriced 2003 board in 2016. Dump this shit already.

Your opinion, and who really cares? It will be more powerful than any previous AmigaOne, and the quad core X5000 was be almost 50% more powerful than my current Quad core G5.
I like PPC, my currrent G5 is very competant under Linux, using more modern video cards than Apple ever ind=tended.
In some benchmarks, it outperforms some X64 systems we have.
And the X500/40 will be a significant upgrade from that.

SO...why don't you STFU about the performance issue, and if I want to spend $2000 on it, that's MY decision.

Quote:

Quote:

But a lot less powerful with one core, which is what you'd be using with either MorphOS or OS4.

Quote:

A modern i7 wipes the floor with it. Hell, even a laptop i5 does.

@Jim,

I find it amusing that KennyR acts just as fanatical as the worst AmigaOS4.x users he complains about. Maybe he thinks it is justified, to some how balance the world he lives in. That kind of fanaticism, on either side of the AmigaNG universe is very tiresome and old, and so very childish, but some people will refuse to grow up.

From the outside, looking in, it really looks like a sickness that they cannot control. I won't claim to be completely free of such tendencies, but I am very thankful that my impulses have calmed down over the years, and that I can see things more objectively now.

Edit: From AmigaKit's last comment in this thread, it sounds like we might have a chance to see AmigaOS4.1FE finally released for the X5000, perhaps at this year's AmiWest Show next month.

[ Edited by amigadave 18.09.2016 - 12:35 ]

Quote:

Having an AWN moderator call you a fanatic is irony bonus +1000.

Now, explain what I said that was fanatical - or kindly be quiet.

Quote:

Benchmarks by TLOSM? That guy with his benchmarks is really pathetic.

Anyway, it will be probably comparatively powerful and a good alternative to G5, alone from not being such an electric energy monster (the thing that keeps me away from a G5).. Drivers are written anyway and *if* and *when* it'll be finally released we'll see how good or bad it'll performs.
Until then no reason to argue about IMHO.

> Drivers are written anyway

Yes, and at least one of them is said to be not ready yet:

"According to one MOS betatester onboard network is not ready."
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40683&forum=32&start=140#787454

> *if* and *when* it'll be finally released we'll see how good or bad
> it'll performs. Until then no reason to argue about IMHO.

Betatesters of MorphOS on X5000 are allowed to post benchmark results. Some benchmarks were already posted here to this very thread, as you know.

> An AWN user claims MorphOS 3.10 is
> indeed being delayed until the X5000 is released with OS4.1.
> Is this the speculation of an average user? Or is it based on some specific knowledge?

Same claim was made in the past already:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40693&forum=33#772590
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40882&forum=14&start=100#777673

As to who AWN user "Beans" is:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41329&forum=15#787101

> as a speculating end user it looks like 3.10 is being delayed because of
> OS4.1 for X5000 taking forever and the MorphOS Team are being gentlemen,
> not wanting to throw A-Eonkit under the bus.

Why would releasing MorphOS 3.10 with X5000 support before the X5000 release mean "to throw A-Eonkit under the bus"?

Quote:

Get your facts straight, I haven't been a moderator at any website for over a year, probably close to 2 years.

I'll be quiet as soon as you will.

> The problem with the Sam460 may be the lack of overlapping graphics
> card 2D hardware acceleration support between AmigaOS 4.1 and MorphOS.

Yes, this and no audio on the Sam460cr.

http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11256&start=18
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=3&topic_id=11037&start=213
http://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?forum=11&topic_id=11137&start=126

> I could go out and sell AmigaTWO branded condoms for all the connection that has.

You could even brand them "Amiga".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_(Nice)_Classification_of_Goods_and_Services#List_of_Classes_.2810th_edition.29

> "AmigaONE" X5000 is just an overpriced 2003 board

2007, see comment #320 :-)

> Dump this shit already.

"MorphOS developers said no." ;-)

> the quad core X5000 was be almost 50% more powerful than my current Quad core G5.

In which benchmark?

>> the quad core X5000 was be almost 50% more powerful than my current Quad core G5.

> But a lot less powerful with one core

...as would be the quad-core G5. It doesn't matter if you compare four cores against four cores or one core against one core.