Press : : Interview with a Bigfoot
Posted By: Daff. on 2009/10/31 6:23:35
The magazine Obligement published an interview with Mark Olsen, member of the MorphOS development team. Mark is perhaps best known for his Quake 3 port, 3D drivers work and recently the port of MorphOS on Mac mini G4.

The interview is available here: http://obligement.free.fr/articles_traduction/itwolsen_en.php
A French translation can be found here: http://obligement.free.fr/articles/itwolsen.php
 
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Joined: 2006/3/21
    Posts: 2790
    From: Northern Calif...
    Question from interview: As most of new processors are now multicore, later or sooner MorphOS must support them. Is it planned ? Is the support of multicore could result in incompatibilities or loss of speed for the system ?

    Answer: "There's no way SMP could be supported in any sensible way while retaining ABox compatibility. Using additional cores/CPUs with some special interface would be possible, but from a developer point of view, this isn't very desireable."

    Hyperion announced at AmiWest 2009 that SMP for AmigaOS4.x would be worked on in the future, but would not say when that work would be started, or if it has already been started, or when it will be finished.

    If Hyperion and their developers can implement multiple cores on AmigaOS4.x, I am sure the MOSTeam can do the same (only better) some time in the future.

    Another note of interest is that some G5 PowerMac's are single core and the last ones were all Dual Core, so maybe having MorphOS on a single core 2.7GHz G5 Power Mac some time in the future is not completely out of the question. (that was the last and fastest G5 model that was single core, but you could get it with either one 2.7GHz G5, or two) I think the fastest dual core G5 models were only 2.5GHz, unless someone besides Apple overclocked them.

    Nice interview BigFoot, thanks for the information and keep up the great work on MorphOS.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »2009/10/31 11:31
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  • Andreas_Wolf
    Joined: 2003/5/22
    Posts: 11471
    From: Germany
    > the last ones were all Dual Core

    In fact, the high end version of the very last one was even quad core (dual dual core):

    http://support.apple.com/kb/SP37

    > single core 2.7GHz G5 Power Mac

    The only 2.7 GHz model was dual core:
    http://support.apple.com/kb/SP46

    > that was the last and fastest G5 model that was single core

    The fastest single core model was 1.8 GHz:
    http://support.apple.com/kb/SP67 (last one) and http://support.apple.com/kb/SP96

    > you could get it with either one 2.7GHz G5, or two

    No, just two (see above).

    > I think the fastest dual core G5 models were only 2.5GHz

    The model with two 2.7 GHz G5 you mentioned is effectively dual core. From an OS's perspective it doesn't matter if it's one single multicore die or multiple single-core dies.
  • »2009/10/31 13:26
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Henes
    Joined: 2003/6/14
    Posts: 505
    From:
    Quote:


    If Hyperion and their developers can implement


    Like the previously announced (but not yet implemented 7 years later) memory protection, resource tracking and automatic stack enlargment?
  • »2009/10/31 13:27
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Joined: 2006/3/21
    Posts: 2790
    From: Northern Calif...
    @henes, Yes, I realize that the announcement is probably very premature, if it ever happens, but at least they are looking at the possibility, where from the interview it appears that the MOSTeam has already decided that they will not ever try to implement SMP.

    @Andreas, I have only done a little research of all the models on the Apple support pages, the primary source of the information I quoted came directly from sellers on eBay auctions, where I have seen more than one, single G5 CPU, 2.7GHz single core PowerMac for auction. Now is Apple never offered such a PowerMac for sale I can only conclude that the owners have removed one of the G5 CPU's, but that seems very unlikely, so I will have to do some searching on the Apple site again. And yes, I knew that the dual CPU, dual core 2.5GHz G5 PowerMacs were considered Quad Core machines, and I meant that the fastest dual core G5 CPU you could get in a PowerMac was the 2.5GHz. The whole point of my post was that the fastest single core G5 CPU that you could likely find in a PowerMac (without overclocking) would be the 2.7GHz G5. I see if I can find that model offered at some time in the past from Apple with just the one G5 CPU at 2.7GHz.
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »2009/10/31 20:01
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Henes
    Joined: 2003/6/14
    Posts: 505
    From:
    Quote:


    Yes, I realize that the announcement is probably very premature, if it ever happens, but at least they are looking at the possibility


    But you also do realize it's the exact same thing as being looking at the possibility to add mp, rt and stack extension for the last 7+ years?

    OTOH, when people don't care if some existing and perfectly legal apps explode in some situation because someone thought it would be smart to make an incompatible change... why not...
  • »2009/10/31 21:13
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    eliot
    Joined: 2004/4/15
    Posts: 554
    From:
    Forget about backwards compatibility!

    One day, there have to be a change and old software just runs in an emulation.
    At least, MorphOS needs virtual memory and smp, if it wants to be a modern os.
    regards
    eliot
  • »2009/11/1 8:38
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Henes
    Joined: 2003/6/14
    Posts: 505
    From:
    Sure. But such things can't be hacked into the AmigaOS design (f.e. why hacking swap and breaking existing apps when the whole system is limited to 2GB of virtual memory and you can physically have them in your Pegasos?).
    You can't just break compatibility "a little bit" and lose some apps when you add such major changes. A completly new and different OS is required.
  • »2009/11/1 12:05
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  • Andreas_Wolf
    Joined: 2003/5/22
    Posts: 11471
    From: Germany
    > the whole system is limited to 2GB of virtual memory and you
    > can physically have them in your Pegasos

    But only with the last mainboard revision, i.e. 2B5. 2B1 to 2B4 can only have one slot populated, thus only 1 GiB is possible there.
  • »2009/11/1 15:10
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  • Andreas_Wolf
    Joined: 2003/5/22
    Posts: 11471
    From: Germany
    > the primary source of the information I quoted came directly from
    > sellers on eBay auctions, where I have seen more than one, single
    > G5 CPU, 2.7GHz single core PowerMac for auction. Now is Apple never
    > offered such a PowerMac for sale I can only conclude that the owners
    > have removed one of the G5 CPU's, but that seems very unlikely

    Do you have a link to such auction?

    > The whole point of my post was that the fastest single core G5 CPU
    > that you could likely find in a PowerMac (without overclocking) would
    > be the 2.7GHz G5.

    I understand, but that point is void if there're only dual-G5 2.7 GHz machines. As I said, an OS can't see the difference between two single core CPUs and one dual core CPU.
    And as mentioned, the fastest single core single CPU machine was 1.8 GHz.

    > I see if I can find that model offered at some time in the
    > past from Apple with just the one G5 CPU at 2.7GHz.

    Yes, please.
  • »2009/11/1 15:27
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Joined: 2003/3/13
    Posts: 1178
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    EXCELLENT interview: Both deeply informative, while educating, and down to earth. Mark shows the type of developer that's forming the Team. What a pity that Christian is totally out of control, releasing elephants and who knows what other "toxic" software!
    I found if funny that Mark says that the closest to a spokesperson is Laire, which almost never speaks! I guess it's just another touch of MorphOS Team acid humour.
    All in all, things look good. I don't care if MorphOS doesn't take over the world, this ride is being fantastic guys!
  • »2009/11/2 7:08
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Joined: 2003/6/4
    Posts: 2017
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    Quote:


    I found if funny that Mark says that the closest to a spokesperson is Laire, which almost never speaks! I guess it's just another touch of MorphOS Team acid humour.



    No, I guess that's no humor. Laire is indeed #1. And while he's most of te time absent in forums, he's quite active on the mailingist and IRC.
    --
    http://www.via-altera.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »2009/11/2 16:20
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Chain-Q
    Joined: 2003/10/12
    Posts: 341
    From: 1 AU, EU, DE/HU
    Quote:

    But only with the last mainboard revision, i.e. 2B5. 2B1 to 2B4 can only have one slot populated, thus only 1 GiB is possible there.

    1., I've 2x512MB (so, both slots in use) in my 2B1 Pegasos II, and it works nicely.
    2., I've never seen anyone able to have 2GB RAM, not even in case of 2B5 boards. Even Linux screams out loud and dies in such cases. I've also tried it myself with such a board: no go. Maybe it also depends on the firmware revision, or it only works with some special set of memory sticks, no idea.
    [.PegasosII/G4.:.Efika.:.Amiga2000/060.]
    [.Free Pascal Compiler MorphOS Port.]
    [.Hosting AmigaSpirit.hu.]
  • »2009/11/3 8:02
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  • Andreas_Wolf
    Joined: 2003/5/22
    Posts: 11471
    From: Germany
    > I've 2x512MB (so, both slots in use) in my 2B1 Pegasos II,
    > and it works nicely.

    Alright, so two used slots seem possible with any revision, but only with modules up to 512 MiB each. Thanks for the hint. So I revert to: With 1 GiB module, 2B1 to 2B4 can only have one slot populated, or two slots with 512 MiB modules, thus only 1 GiB is possible there.

    > I've never seen anyone able to have 2GB RAM, not even in
    > case of 2B5 boards.

    Please refer to what BBRV said:

    "We shipped many ODW with 1GB in each slot. 2GB works and is still working today in many instances."
    http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=10082#10082

    Also that thread as a whole is very revealing.

    > Maybe it also depends on the firmware revision, or it only works
    > with some special set of memory sticks

    Yes, both. Thus you need a 2B5 board, the right memory modules and a suitable firmware revision to be able to use 2 GiB RAM in a Pegasos II.
  • »2009/11/3 9:17
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