Any plans to support 16bit screen modes for G5's?
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    esc
    Posts: 144 from 2013/5/28
    Hey guys, it looks like a lot of games won't work on a G5 because it doesn't support 16 bit screenmodes. Is there a plan to implement these in the future? This all works great on my G4 Mac Mini but i got the powermac to replace the mini :)
  • »02.07.13 - 16:41
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  • Moderator
    Miky060
    Posts: 694 from 2003/2/24
    From: ITALY
    They should fix first the problems that some Radeons like the 9800 have on the G5...
    My G5 is parked below the desktop and is totally unusable.

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  • »02.07.13 - 17:04
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    I have the same concerns. I want a fully supported MOS system. I don't mind waiting, I just want to know if this is a problem the developers are intending to solve quickly, eventually or not at all.
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  • »02.07.13 - 18:29
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 403 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    This are issues that will most likely get resolved in a future update. Due to circumstances beyond our control, we can't release a quick update, though. Please have some patience. If you reported the bug via standard bug report form, it won't get lost.
    Blaming anyone that you have a useless machine under your desk won't help the case.
  • »02.07.13 - 19:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @pega-1

    That is all I wanted to hear :-) I don't mind waiting as long as I know it's not just being looked at, but also that this problem actually is fixable. It would be a lot worse if we didn't know this, or got to hear that this problem will be permanent.

    [ Edited by Yasu 02.07.2013 - 20:59 ]
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  • »02.07.13 - 19:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    amigadave
    Posts: 2713 from 2006/3/21
    From: Lake Arrowhead...
    Quote:

    Miky060 wrote:
    They should fix first the problems that some Radeons like the 9800 have on the G5...
    My G5 is parked below the desktop and is totally unusable.


    Not exactly true, as I am pretty sure it will still run MacOSX and/or PPC Linux.

    Be patient, or get yourself a very cheap video card that is already supported. Jim can help get one for you, if you can't find one, or I can send you a Mac version of the 9000Pro from a G4 PowerMac if you know how (or if) it needs to be modified to work in your G5 PowerMac.

    I'll even give it to you free, if you just pay for the shipping from California, USA to where ever you live. (probably cheaper to find one close to where you live)
    MorphOS - The best Next Gen Amiga choice.
  • »02.07.13 - 21:25
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 898 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    I have a 9600 in my g5 2.3ghz and it seems to work fine.
    I have not tested everything yet though.
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  • »02.07.13 - 22:41
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  • Moderator
    Miky060
    Posts: 694 from 2003/2/24
    From: ITALY
    pega-1,
    Quote:

    This are issues that will most likely get resolved in a future update. Due to circumstances beyond our control, we can't release a quick update, though. Please have some patience. If you reported the bug via standard bug report form, it won't get lost.
    Blaming anyone that you have a useless machine under your desk won't help the case.


    The problem is that the Radeon R300 drivers have not been delevoped and released in few weeks so that you can say "do not complain they are still not perfectly working"! We have been waiting them for years so that it' s not so normal that after years wating for them to be released when they finally came out they are not working!
    Moreover morphos team always blamed the use of reflashed video cards while me and others are having problems (=totally unusable system) using GENUINE MAC 9800 boards! This is not properly a marginal bug..

    So I would like to understand if in there moment we are speaking there is someone concretely working on this issue and there will be a fix for just this bug or we will have to wait other months and Mos 3.3 release to have these gfx boards working!


    [ Edited by Miky060 03.07.2013 - 08:03 ]

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  • »03.07.13 - 06:59
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11000 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> This are issues that will most likely get resolved in a future update. Due to
    >> circumstances beyond our control, we can't release a quick update, though.

    > I would like to understand if [...] there will be a fix for just this bug or we will have
    > to wait other months and Mos 3.3 release to have these gfx boards working!

    I think it's been clearly said that the fix won't come before "MorphOS 3.3 which is mostly a bugfix release" anyway.
  • »03.07.13 - 09:44
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 940 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:

    Miky060 wrote:
    We have been waiting them for years so that it' s not so normal that after years wating for them to be released when they finally came out they are not working!


    Do you have a clock? Just wondering about how long you have waited. Development of the r300 started last year as well as the real G5 port.

    So I don´t know what you waited for all those years, but I don´t think its the eather the G5 port nor the r300 support.

    Calling a system useless because it does not run a few games is quite stupid and very lame.

    Have you ever asked yourself why these games were limited to 16 bit modes in the first place? Why are these games are using a *limited* color range? Yes, those games are limited, no the OS. The OS supports the maxium available resolution and full 24 bit coloring.

    This is the same discussion as about the fixed resolution on our laptops. The games are limited to a lower resolution and people blame the OS for supporting native resolution only.

    Why blame the OS developers and not the people porting/writing these games?

    These games are requesting an specific hardware feature that simply may or may not avalable on some systems.

    Sure it would be nice to have all features on all systems, but this is not dream land, where user wishes come true instantly. In reality this is hard work and needs time.

    You may use your spare time to blame other peoples hard work, but the MorphOS Developers spend there spare time in developing stuff for you and sometimes these developers have other things in mind than coding. There is a live beyond MorphOS.

    Geit

    [ Edited by geit 03.07.2013 - 10:52 ]
  • »03.07.13 - 09:49
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2058 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    Miky060 wrote:
    So I would like to understand if in there moment we are speaking there is someone concretely working on this issue and there will be a fix for just this bug or we will have to wait other months and Mos 3.3 release to have these gfx boards working!



    You should already know we do not release small patches, but push out full releases instead. We have already stressed out many times that 3.3 will address the issues observed on G5. If you have a need to use the G5 asap, get a different card that won't have such problems as the R9800.
  • »03.07.13 - 10:02
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @jacadcaps

    I'm just curious: why don't you release small patches? If you have fixed one problem, what's the reason for waiting several months in order to fix other problems too?

    I'm not saying you don't have your reasons. I just want to know them :)
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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  • »03.07.13 - 12:29
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  • MorphOS Developer
    jacadcaps
    Posts: 2058 from 2003/3/5
    From: Canada
    Quote:

    Yasu wrote:
    I'm just curious: why don't you release small patches?


    Lately, the every other minor release is a small patch in case you haven't noticed. Sometimes it may take a bit longer to resolve all issues that need resolving though.
  • »03.07.13 - 12:58
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Yasu
    Posts: 1724 from 2012/3/22
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    @jacadcaps

    I've noticed :-) I meant more like a patch for every problem solved instead of waiting for a bunch of them to be solved before a release. I guess it's because of major work of just releasing it or something, but I wanted to hear the reason from a developer.

    I'm no programmer myself, but I respect them a lot. I get the release mails for AROS where one can look at the changed codes and just looking at all that work for even smaller fixes have been a humbling experience. I do understand the major work involved now so I'm not impatient or un-understanding of your workload. I don't demand everything right away, I settle for knowing that certain problems are being taken care of.

    [ Edited by Yasu 03.07.2013 - 14:27 ]
    AMIGA FORUM - Hela Sveriges Amigatidning!
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  • »03.07.13 - 13:27
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  • Moderator
    Miky060
    Posts: 694 from 2003/2/24
    From: ITALY
    Andreas_Wolf,
    Quote:

    I think it's been clearly said that the fix won't come before "MorphOS 3.3 which is mostly a bugfix release" anyway.


    I'm sad to hear this.


    geit,
    Quote:

    Calling a system useless because it does not run a few games is quite stupid and very lame.


    You probably missed the issue: I totally DO NOT CARE about games or 16 bit modes! The problem me and other with Radeon 9800 are having is that the system is TOTALLY UNUSABLE! It has already explained many times: it goes at 100% cpu use at boot and stays almost totally freezed all the time and is unusable. Do you thing this is a minor issue!?


    jacadcaps,
    Quote:

    You should already know we do not release small patches, but push out full releases instead.


    Yes, I know but I hoped this politics would have not applied when a totally blocking problem comes out. We are speaking of a problems that makes a system totally unusable and not just slower, or less compatible, or less user-friendly..


    jacadcaps,
    Quote:

    If you have a need to use the G5 asap, get a different card that won't have such problems as the R9800.


    This is because I asked to not suggest me to just buy another GFX Board.. :-)

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  • »03.07.13 - 19:43
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Intuition
    Posts: 1073 from 2013/5/24
    From: Federacija Bos...
    Unless you've registered MorphOS on your G5 already I don't see what the problem is with waiting until 3.3 is released.
    1.67GHz 15" PowerBook G4, 1GB RAM, 128MB Radeon 9700M Pro, 64GB SSD, MorphOS 3.9

    2.7GHz DP G5, 4GB RAM, 512MB Radeon X1950 Pro, OSX 10.5.8, 500GB SSHD, MorphOS 3.9
  • »03.07.13 - 21:35
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1058 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Miky060: stop bitching and acting like a baby. At the end MorphOS is a hobby system. You don't have to use it or pay for it.

    Keep in mind that R300 3D developement was fully covered with Fraggles donation, you didn't spend a cent on it.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »03.07.13 - 21:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11000 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > MorphOS is a hobby system. You don't have to use it or pay for it.

    You don't have to use or pay for non-hobby systems either ;-)
  • »03.07.13 - 21:49
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    bash64
    Posts: 898 from 2010/10/29
    From: USA
    I support Mikey060 to a point.
    I definitely don't support anyone calling another member a baby or a bitcher.

    A game stopper like a system being unusable should go to the top of the list of patches and should not wait till a new release.

    On the other hand, If my gfx card was doing that I'd have already bought a working video card and would not let my G5 just sit there.
    Even when there was no R300 driver I kept using my G4 powerbook laptop.
    :-D
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  • »03.07.13 - 22:57
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  • Moderator
    Miky060
    Posts: 694 from 2003/2/24
    From: ITALY
    I did not offend nobody neither have told that MorphOS Team sucks so there is no need to act like a fan boy that has to defend every stuff comes from MorphOS team, leave this stuff to Apple funs.. A fortiori if you are a newbie in front of a person that has used and has supported and spreaded MorphOS since its first incarnation. I just can't admit that a serious bug that makes totally unusable an "officially supported" configuration (remember that my Radeon is a genuine Mac version and my G5 is a supported version) is taken like a marginal problem and me becomes the person to be pubblically blamed or worse offended! Are you crazy? MorphOS Team should feel in a defective position, not me, even if it's an hobbist OS. Nobody wants to kill them or piss on their work, but it's absolutely not normal that me is the person to be punched. Me and others exposed this SERIOUS issue the day after MOS 3.2 came out and never got a serious answer about the question.

    Wait for MOS 3.3 or buy another GFX Board and shut up is not proper reaction. The child is not me.

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  • »03.07.13 - 23:58
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  • ASiegel
    Posts: 1229 from 2003/2/15
    From: Central Europe
    Quote:

    Miky060 wrote:
    I just can't admit that a serious bug that makes totally unusable an "officially supported" configuration (remember that my Radeon is a genuine Mac version and my G5 is a supported version) is taken like a marginal problem and me becomes the person to be publically blamed or worse offended!

    Do you know how many individual system and GPU configurations exist that MorphOS 'officially' supports? Now, imagine how feasible it is that every single one is tested before a release.

    Quote:

    Are you crazy? MorphOS Team should feel in a defective position, not me, even if it's an hobbist OS. Nobody wants to kill them or piss on their work, but it's absolutely not normal that me is the person to be punched. Me and others exposed this SERIOUS issue the day after MOS 3.2 came out and never got a serious answer about the question.

    Actually, you did get a serious answer but you simply refuse to accept it as it is not convenient for you.

    First of all, finding out what causes your specific GPU and system combination to fail is not necessarily a trivial matter and may take considerably more time than you imagine. Second, not every developer is familiar with graphics driver development so you cannot simply throw more bodies at the problem and hope it will magically disappear. For other developers to get familiar with this part of MorphOS may already require more time than you are willing to wait.

    Some things just take time. Complaining about it is not going to change that.


    Quote:

    Wait for MOS 3.3 or buy another GFX Board and shut up is not proper reaction.

    Minus the shutting up, that is absolutely the proper reaction given the situation.
  • »04.07.13 - 06:30
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  • Moderator
    Miky060
    Posts: 694 from 2003/2/24
    From: ITALY
    ASiegel,
    Quote:

    Do you know how many individual system and GPU configurations exist that MorphOS 'officially' supports? Now, imagine how feasible it is that every single one is tested before a release.


    I know and I can understand that it's not easy to handle for a little hobbiest team, but the last months (or more) were focused to add G5 and better R300 support (and other features/fixes abviously) if I am not wrong. 2D R300 support was there since even before.. How is it possible that when it finally comes out it does not work!?
    I remember that the first time someone pointed out that some Radeon 9800 made the system totally freezed and unusable was a lot of time ago, maybe at 2.7/3.0 era. Ok, at that point we were speaking about a flashed PC Radeon and a G4 machine, so it's a different matter, but the problem was already underlined and maybe it deserved a deeper and more serious investigation from developers. We attended further releases (as you are always suggesting..) to see this problem fixed and me and others now have a Genuine Radeon (as you suggested), a new Realese of MorphOS that officially improves R300 handling, but nothing changed.
    And we are just speaking about plain 2D use! I'm totally not entering into 3D questions..

    [ Edited by Miky060 04.07.2013 - 09:02 ]

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  • »04.07.13 - 07:54
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    pampers
    Posts: 1058 from 2009/2/26
    From: Tczew, Poland
    Miky060:

    My apologies for beign rude.

    Please tell me - did you eve think about one thing: if your card is not working propely, maybe instead of typing and typing and typing on forum, complaining how bad it is, you should ask some MorphOS developer if they are interested in borrowing your card for developement and testing purposes? Keeping complaining with no action will give no effect at all.
    MorphOS 3.x
  • »04.07.13 - 09:13
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 714 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    Quote:

    Wait for MOS 3.3 or buy another GFX Board and shut up is not proper reaction. The child is not me.



    Did you send them logs to try to help to identify the problem? Since both G5&R300 support is new I think finding bugs is normal, hopefully it will improve with next release.
  • »04.07.13 - 10:31
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  • MorphOS Developer
    geit
    Posts: 940 from 2004/9/23
    Quote:

    Miky060 wrote:
    And we are just speaking about plain 2D use! I'm totally not entering into 3D questions..


    The desktop may look 2D, but it uses 3D functionallity. Ask people who used the PowerBook without 3D, where some simple alpha rendering made their system slow like hell, because all operations where done in software.

    This is because e.g. alpha blending is done in hardware only when available and enabled and not all render functions may be available in hardware accelerated form on all cards. If for example a specific pixel conversion is missing for some reason, a simple alpha skin like Ferox3D will cause the system to be slow like hell.

    With the 3D update, the missing 2D render Functions were added and are now hardware accellerated, too.

    You cannot say you are using just 2D. Even enhanced layers is 3D, thats why the early used name containing 3D was changed into "enhanced layers".

    I have no clue, what is going on with your graphic card. If it is just the radeon timeout, or if your cards 3D support is somehow disabled. In your case I would disable enhanced layers and see what happens.

    Geit

    [ Edited by geit 04.07.2013 - 13:11 ]
  • »04.07.13 - 12:09
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