"Looking for an MUI programmer", message from Deron K. (Page
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 966 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    walkero wrote: ... How possible do you think it would be to persuade him to opensource the code? This way, if anyone would like to work on that will be able to do so, fix the bugs of v5 and add new features. This is the only solution I see to save that application.

    Well, it all depends if he is of the mindset to sell, or Open Source it, as it doesn't seem to be going anywhere currently, and then it would be either if he's prepared to make the grand gesture of Open Sourcing the code, or how much he wants for the source code I suppose.

    I'd be prepared to support a bounty, if this is viable for the current Amiga community or if it would just be MorphOS users that would be supporting the "Bounty". There has never been a successful MorphOS version of PageStream released by Deron, but I believe Frank Mariak - cyfm did a fix for the bug-ridden version intended for MorphOS, or could it have been an Amiga version of PageStream 5 that was fixed from a MUI/bug aspect that Frank got working and did a "presentation" of at one of the MorphOS user gatherings.
    Quote:

    walkero wrote: I sent him as well an email a couple of days ago. Let's hope he will reply and be positive to open source it.

    Did you ask him in your email if he was prepared to sell or even Open Source any or all of the PageStream versions code?
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  • »27.02.19 - 12:05
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 411 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    I can confirm that I've been working on PGS5 for MorphOS about 3 years ago. It was a bit difficult to coordinate the effort with Deron back then, though, as he couldn't respond to email for periods of time.
    I made it work up to a point where Christoph Poelzl and myself were able to show a preview version at Alchimie 0xb back in 2015 but in order to get it to a releasable state it would have required some additional work by Deron which unfortunately never happened due to various reasons not in my control. Christoph even offered Deron to finance the effort.

    PGS5 would have been and still would be a great application for MorphOS - unfortunately Deron seemed to have lost interest to get it to a final state for reasons I don't know.

    I doubt that open sourcing the whole code would get the project anywhere even if Deron would release it this way - which is unlikely IMHO -, it still needs some coordinated effort and at least an experienced developer to get it done. Just look at various projects which have been released this way and what happened to them.
  • »28.02.19 - 08:44
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 966 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ cyfm

    Thanks for that response, I appreciate the frankness of your reply, as I always wondered fully about where you, and Christoph Poelzl, managed to get to with PGS5 for MorphOS, and Deron's (sadly lack of) willingness to continue forward, from your efforts, to a successful release of PGS5.

    I tend to agree with your assessment of Deron's current "drive" with completing PGS5 for ANY of the OS's he released PGS5 for. It always seemed to me to be too big a project for one person to successfully develop & bug-fix for Windows, MacOSX (x86 & PPC), Linux (i64, x86 & PPC), Amiga (68k, PPC -> OS4 & MorphOS) platforms all being developed concurrently.

    I also agree that it would be difficult in the extreme for anyone else to complete the program for PageStream 5 for MorphOS, or any other OS that it was initially released for, without some or all of the knowledge of how the program is put together to implement it as a working/fully functional release. The chances of Deron releasing PageStream as some licensed/freely available code for anyone to work on would also seem highly unlikely, but would be more of a chance that it might eventually be achieved, as I feel Deron has probably "given up" on ever completing it now, sadly.

    Since my comment on Page 2 #48 I have had no response from Deron / PageStream Support, which is never a good sign, and he rarely replies to direct questions about the future of PageStream, even on PageStream User Group on Yahoo. As he seems very selective about what he will answer questions about, which is a real shame.

    I, and I am sure anyone else with a vested interest in the future of PageStream, would preferably appreciate an honest answer from Deron as to PageStream's future. I paid for it's v5 stable future release, and I've certainly not had my money/product value delivered as yet, and I've been waiting for about 10 years now. Those of us who supported the program over the years really deserve a better outcome than where we are currently.

    [ Edited by NewSense 05.03.2019 - 03:36 ]
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  • »05.03.19 - 03:35
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11157 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > [...] Deron's (sadly lack of) willingness to continue forward [...]. I tend to
    > agree with your assessment of Deron's current "drive" with completing
    > PGS5 for ANY of the OS's he released PGS5 for. [...] I feel Deron has
    > probably "given up" on ever completing it now, sadly. [...] Deron [...] rarely
    > replies to direct questions about the future of PageStream [...]. I [...] would
    > preferably appreciate an honest answer from Deron as to PageStream's future.

    "I spoke to Deron Kazmaier the lead developer of PageStream recently, he mentioned further Amiga updates are coming soon [...]."
    http://www.amiga-addict.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Amiga-Addict-Magazine-Article-Sample01.jpg
  • »17.11.20 - 20:32
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 966 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ Andreas_Wolf - thanks for the Amiga Addict magazine link, PageStream article by Jonah Naylor, but I should mention ...

    I sent a message to the PageStream forum on 28-May-2020, and got a reply from Deron Kazmaier on 14-July-2020 (only 6 weeks to wait for a response) confirming that our very own Frank Mariak, and RMS Video/Christoph Poelzl had done work for the MorphOS version 5 of PageStream, between March and May apparently . . . that's 6 months ago . . . and Deron's reply in July stated . . .
    Quote:

    Deron Kazmaier .."Several more issues to resolve. The biggest thing on my plate is to clean up some clipping because display is very slow compared to previous versions (it renders using the latest Mac/Windows render pipeline which counts on some heavier hardware) and finishing the merge of Frank's work. The biggest chunk of (new) work was done March->May, but things have gotten slow lately.

    10-September-2020 - I left a message on Deron's PageStream Forum pages stating that I was still waiting for an update, as I'd asked about buying a working version of PageStream for MorphOS . . . but I've not been left any reply by Deron to date, which is not really awe-inspiring. I've sent emails as well, also no reply at all. Very disappointing

    From the quote by Jonah Naylor of "recent" can I consider my request as recent ?- 10-September-2020? :-? so sadly I'm not holding my breath for good news about PageStream.

    Let's not forget that v5 of PageStream for Amiga 68k, OS4 and MorphOS only ever made it to either alpha or Beta releases, and they were as flaky as hell or impossible to use as such when released - that even includes the Windows, Mac and Linux releases though I seem to remember they were given titles of being a full release, but I wouldn't consider the Windows version that I got as being a "full" release to use or be anything like useable. I used it a few times, but had far too many crashes, and issues with it that never got fixed that I gave up on it, and went back to v4.1.5.6 Pro - the Amiga 68k release.

    So, I still use v4.1.5.6 Pro for Amiga 68k as that's the only one I can trust to not crash out at a moment's notice. Those versions haven't been improved upon, other than behind closed doors - and with the kindness, competence and benevolence of Frank Mariak and Christoph Poelzl, but that improved release is still not available to buy or even try.

    It's alright Jonah Naylor stating they only use the 68k version "as it has lower RAM memory requirements" - that's total B.S.

    PageStream v5 is currently a joke for anyone with an Amiga system, of whatever type that might be, and that even applies to the Windows, Linux, and Mac version 5 !

    So, until the MorphOS update has been implemented and released there will not be a v5 worth talking about for our future DTP use, . . . very, very sadly I might add, as Frank and Christoph seemingly put a lot of effort for this, probably for free, and that includes Frank's previous PageStream v5 MorphOS update that he showed at one of the MorphOS "get-togethers"/meets a few years ago I seem to remember.

    It's difficult to be optimistic in the circumstances for PageStream when the last release of v5, which was unuseable anyway, for the Amiga was back in 2010 - 10 years ago, and the last PageStream version for ANY platform was for the Mac OS X version 5 was way back in 2012, and that is the most recent release AFAIK. If it wasn't such a tragic situation for we Amigans I'd be falling off my chair laughing at the chances of seeing a new release of any version of PageStream. :-(
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  • »18.11.20 - 09:14
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11157 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I sent a message to the PageStream forum on 28-May-2020, and got
    > a reply from Deron Kazmaier on 14-July-2020 [...] confirming that [...]
    > Frank Mariak, and RMS Video/Christoph Poelzl had done work for the
    > MorphOS version 5 of PageStream, between March and May apparently . . .
    > [...] 10-September-2020 - I left a message [...] stating that I was still waiting
    > for an update, as I'd asked about buying a working version of PageStream
    > for MorphOS . . . but I've not been left any reply by Deron to date

    Thanks, I read that forum thread now.

    > can I consider my request as recent ?- 10-September-2020? :-?

    I'd day so, yes. I don't know when the Amiga Addict article was actually written and what time frame 'recently' therein may refer to, just that the linked image of the article was uploaded 24-October-2020.

    > v5 of PageStream for Amiga 68k, OS4 and MorphOS only ever made it
    > to either alpha or Beta releases

    Opposed to the OS4 and MorphOS releases of v5, which are called beta releases, the OS3-68k releases are apparently deemed final releases, at least judging by the titles in the list of PageStream releases.

    > Jonah Naylor stating they only use the 68k version "as it has lower RAM
    > memory requirements" - that's total B.S.

    As I understand it, his statement is not about using the 68k version instead of non-68k version but about using v4.1 instead of v5. That's not to say this statement wouldn't be somewhat B.S. as well, though.

    > Frank's previous PageStream v5 MorphOS update that he showed at one
    > of the MorphOS "get-togethers"/meets a few years ago I seem to remember

    Yes, Alchimie 0xb back in 2015 according to comment #52.
  • »18.11.20 - 12:35
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 966 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ Andreas_Wolf - Question - Have you ever bought/used PageStream for any OS it's available for? :-?

    Just as background, I've been a PageStream user, and registered with SoftLogik Publishing Corp. for about 20+ years now..

    Back in the 1990s that was with PageStream v3.3, and when v4 was released somewhere about 2002 I upgraded to v4 Pro, and later to the currently unuseable v5, though earlier during v4 development it began trading as Grasshopper LLC/PageStream.org which it is currently shown trading as.

    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote: Opposed to the OS4 and MorphOS releases of v5, which are called beta releases, the OS3-68k releases are apparently deemed final releases, at least judging by the titles in the list of PageStream releases.

    You've surprisingly overlooked - PageStream 5.0.5.8a Amiga-OS3-68k dated 2010-10-21 28 mb, and the linked comment ...
    Quote:

    by Deron Kazmaier on the release page, "It has just been over a week since the last release, but I did get a few bugs with the font selector and lists in general and a few other minor pains. Just trying to make it easier to test for those folks who can fire it up."

    Which is the last update - to current date for the 68k fork of PageStream v5.x.x.x and there is an "a" on the end of that to signify it is still, after 10+ years an alpha state, and for those of us who paid for it to become a FULL release, very, very, very disappointing.
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  • »19.11.20 - 07:17
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11157 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Have you ever bought/used PageStream for any OS it's available for?

    No. I am a professional DTP software user, but my employer is an Adobe devotee :-) My personal, low requirements regarding DTP are well met by open source word processing software.

    > v4 was released somewhere about 2002

    I think it was in the (very) late 1990s.

    >> the OS3-68k releases are apparently deemed final releases,
    >> at least judging by the titles in the list of PageStream releases.

    > PageStream 5.0.5.8a Amiga-OS3-68k dated 2010-10-21 [...] is the
    > last update - to current date for the 68k fork of PageStream v5.x.x.x and
    > there is an "a" on the end of that to signify it is [...] an alpha state

    You mean he released the v5.0.5.8 on 2010-10-11 and ten days later released the alpha of the same version? Doesn't make sense to me as this would be reversed order. Therefore, I don't think the suffixed 'a' means what you think it means. To my mind, the 'a' denotes a change that's deemed too small for even increasing the fourth digit '8' to a '9', which means v5.0.5.8 got a tiny update and was thus followed by v5.0.5.8a.
    I found a news item where v5.0.5.8a is called a beta release. Going by that, it seems all 2010 and newer releases in the list of PageStream releases are beta releases, with some of them correctly denoted as beta in the title while others are missing the beta denotation.
  • »19.11.20 - 14:39
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 966 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    NewSense - > > v4 was released somewhere about 2002

    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote: I think it was in the (very) late 1990s.

    It's a moot point really, as Deron doesn't have a release date for any of the v4 releases on the PageStream site, but even in the HHV help documentation for v4 there are still references that direct the user to refer to the v3 manual, that being ...
    Quote:

    To read about last minute changes in this version of PageStream3, choose View ReadMe.Now File from the Scripts menu. This requires ARexx.
    These comments are in the General Tips section which are file dated as: 9-May-2000

    Some of the documents used in the HHV (HTML Help Viewer) for PageStream are dated back to 1997, though some are dated to later than 2000, and as I bought the PageStream v4 CD, directly from SoftLogik, which I have long since had registered with PageStream, the ReadMe file on the CD states "PAGESTREAM 4.1 Release 2! January 23nd, 2002", the PageStream v4 file information on the CD is dated 28-Jan-2002, the majority of the later files are dated 5-February-2002 - which is as I quoted.

    That is because I believe it was a new release when I bought it, though there was a PDF of a manual for v4 that was available, which I have a PDF copy of, file dated as 13-Nov-2001 - which is incomplete as there never was a completed index, and much of the program's features are not covered, which I have a printed copy of. The PDF file has had a 'broken link' on the PageStream website for about 10 years, and I don't think Deron supplies it to anyone anymore, so there is no printed/printable manual available, even though the last one was for v4, though there is extensive online help on the website.

    Additionally the ordering system for new software appears to be "broken", which I have also reported to Deron, via the Forum, which you can check if you want to verify this, but just like other matters I have asked about, I have had no reply to.
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote: the OS3-68k releases are apparently deemed final releases, at least judging by the titles in the list of PageStream releases.

    I was on the PageStream AmigaBeta mailing list, and whether Deron marked the file as looking like a full, or Beta, or alpha version, I can tell you now that not a one of the releases was worth trying, as they just "fell flat on their face", locked-up, froze, failed to display the GUI elements correctly or they were blacked-out, or in the wrong places, were unable to be clicked on, didn't display an area to set out a document, the text and drawing tools elements didn't display correctly, menus didn't work, all reported to Deron, and that was as soon as you got past launching it, that's if you got that far. Deron, if I remember correctly, did most, if not all, of his testing via WinUAE. What's more is that even though he owned/owns an Amiga 4000 he did not seem to get it out of "mothballs" and actually use the hardware, that it was intended to be used on, to do any diagnostic work on before he made it available, and that was probably the major flaw in the process of software "development".

    I know, because I asked him about that during "testing" it - not that I got very far "testing" v5.x.x.x.
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote: PageStream 5.0.5.8a Amiga-OS3-68k dated 2010-10-21 [...] is the last update - to current date for the 68k fork of PageStream v5.x.x.x and there is an "a" on the end of that to signify it is [...] an alpha state

    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote: You mean he released the v5.0.5.8 on 2010-10-11 and ten days later released the alpha of the same version? Doesn't make sense to me as this would be reversed order.

    Do you think Deron was bothered about there not being a "b" to signify it was a Beta version either?

    Would you consider it fair to release a program as a commercial offering that was never fit for purpose? That's what Deron did, and never completed the project. Call it an alpha, call it a beta if you like, they were all useless, and not fit for purpose, so what letter should that have after it's version number ? :-?

    So, with that in mind do you think he was bothered about putting an "a" at the end of a file or not? It's a moot-point !

    The important words in the quote from the release notes I supplied was Quote:

    "Just trying to make it easier to test for those folks who can fire it up."
    The important words there being "to test" as in - it's not a complete version, just test it out, and "for those folks who can fire it up". My comments are the only comments on the Forum pages asking about any Amiga based version of PageStream in 2020, so is there any Amiga user with v5.x.x.x still able to "fire it up" out there? :-?.
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote: Therefore, I don't think the suffixed 'a' means what you think it means. To my mind, the 'a' denotes a change that's deemed too small for even increasing the fourth digit '8' to a '9', which means v5.0.5.8 got a tiny update and was thus followed by v5.0.5.8a.

    It's a very, very moot point, but pursue it if it brings you happiness, and so if you still want to believe that, then you might as well believe what you like, as you don't want to trust me, a PageStream user who, like may other Amiga users, was left "out-to-dry", up to that point (2010-ish) who were avid Amiga PageStream users, by the programmer of the software, who never completed the version. Deron has sadly never even updated it since 2010, and he rarely gives a timely reply to people/users of the PageStream Forum, that is owned by the author of the program. He used to withold certain questions asked regarding the delays in progress from me on the Yahoo Groups mailing list, that might show his (lack of) actions in a bad light, as he failed to reply to many questions I asked about, such as his lack of action, so he never posted them to the Group, he being the only moderator, as to why the program hadn't seen the light of day for weeks, then months, now years of inactivity, with no completed useable program for the buyers of that program in a timely manner or do you think I am making that up as well?

    Deron has done quite a few updates on his PageStream site in 2020, on the Documentation> Recent Changes section, such as:

    1. Projects updated:2020-05-28 08:23:05
    2. Web & Email Forums updated:2020-05-28 08:15:35
    3. References updated:2020-05-28 08:11:58
    4. Work History updated:2020-05-28 07:51:03
    5. Front Page updated:2020-05-28 07:47:01
    6. Projects - Geographic Boundary Editor updated:2020-05-20 09:23:55
    7. Projects - DoReMe Controller updated:2020-03-10 15:11:39
    8. Projects - Razercut updated:2020-03-04 15:33:45
    9. EquusHD updated:2020-03-03 11:58:12
    10. Projects - Quad Beverage Antennae Modeling updated:2020-03-02 19:45:43
    ... etc. but no work shown for improving/fixing PageStream in 2020.

    Do you see . . . PageStream amongst those "projects" for 2020, no, not even on subsequent pages for 2020, he changed the title of PageStream, and migrated the Yahoo Groups threads across, and that's all the update(s) for PageStream as far as I know, and that's after Frank and Christoph put all their effort in to encourage Deron to complete the MorphOS version of PageStream v5.x.x.x.

    Let's see if PageStream v5 becomes available for MorphOS in the near future, or even for 68k, or OS4, or even any other OS platform that v5 is available more "recently" than the end of next year. Maybe the "penny will drop" for you then, and you might even accept what I have said as fair, and factual.
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote: I found a news item where v5.0.5.8a is called a beta release. Going by that, it seems all 2010 and newer releases in the list of PageStream releases are beta releases, with some of them correctly denoted as beta in the title while others are missing the beta denotation.

    It doesn't matter if they were called alpha or beta releases, they all behaved like early alphas, he just lured users, like me, with the hope and, at the time reasonable, expectation that he would complete the program, seeing as he had done versions for the Amiga since v2, through v3, and v4, and then onto v5, but those of us who paid him it seems were all drawn into his "dead-end road to nowhere" to pay for a product that he then never completed.
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  • »20.11.20 - 04:17
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    _coliN_
    Posts: 61 from 2003/4/30
    From: Hessen, Germany
    Hello!

    I think some of the betas/alphas of version 5 are still usable.
    I have here a demo version of 5.0.5.8 Pro.
    This works "well" for me compared to the buggy normal versions of 5-series.
    But I have no pro license, and in the actual support situation I dont buy any 10year old pro thing...

    Regards!

    Bo
  • »20.11.20 - 06:46
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 966 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ _coliN_ - Are you using that/those versions of PageStream 5.0.5.8 on actual 68k Amiga hardware?
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  • »20.11.20 - 09:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 11157 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> v4 was released somewhere about 2002

    >> I think it was in the (very) late 1990s.

    > [...] v3 manual, [...] These comments are [...] file dated as: 9-May-2000
    > [...] "PAGESTREAM 4.1 Release 2! January 23nd, 2002", the
    > PageStream v4 file information on the CD is dated 28-Jan-2002, the
    > majority of the later files are dated 5-February-2002 - which is as I quoted.

    PageStream v4 didn't start at v4.1 but at v4.0:

    "PageStream4.0 for the Amiga is available now! We began shipping on the 26th of October, 1999!"
    http://web.archive.org/web/19991122062752/http://softlogik.com/News/aminews.html#pgs40ami

    "Amiga: Final program began shipping October 26th, 1999!"
    http://web.archive.org/web/19991122064944/http://softlogik.com/Products/PageStream4/whatsnew.html#eta

    >>>> the OS3-68k releases are apparently deemed final releases,
    >>>> at least judging by the titles in the list of PageStream releases.

    > whether Deron marked the file as looking like a full, or Beta, or
    > alpha version, [...] not a one of the releases was worth trying

    I know as much. What I was getting at was that he seemingly deemed some of his 2010+ releases as beta and some of them (unjustifiably) final, which is the (wrong) impression I got from the titles in his list of PageStream releases. As outlined in the last paragraph of my comment #58, I'm now aware that all of those releases were actually deemed beta versions by him, no matter if the title in the list of PageStream releases contains "beta" or not.

    >> You mean he released the v5.0.5.8 on 2010-10-11 and ten days later
    >> released the alpha of the same version? Doesn't make sense to me as
    >> this would be reversed order.

    > Do you think Deron was bothered about there not being a "b" to signify
    > it was a Beta version either?

    Generally, the order of release in software development is "alpha" -> "beta", not the other way round. If the 2010-10-21 release was deemed alpha as you say, the 2010-10-11 release would have been deemed pre-alpha (or also alpha at best), not beta. And we *know* from Deron's mail to amiga-news.de (see link in previous comment) that he deemed the v5.0.5.8a as beta, not alpha. From this it is clear now to me that he deemed both releases 2010-10-11 and 2010-10-21 as beta and suffixed an 'a' to the latter version number to denote a change he considered too tiny to warrant a change of any digit.

    > Would you consider it fair to release a program as a commercial
    > offering that was never fit for purpose?

    Of course not, and I'm quite sure I haven't even implied I would.

    > Call it an alpha, call it a beta if you like

    I wasn't discussing what I (or you) would call it judging from the perceived state of the software but what Deron actually calls it.

    > do you think he was bothered about putting an "a" at the end of a file or not?

    Yes, I think he was, as that's what he actually did. He was bothered enough to publish the new release ten days later, and without the suffixed 'a' there would have been two releases with the exact same version number and no possibility to tell them apart by version number.

    > it's not a complete version, just test it out, and
    > "for those folks who can fire it up".

    Yes, he apparently called it a beta version himself (see comment #58). We could discuss if "beta" is an apt term for the poor state that v5.0.5.8a is in, and if "alpha" or anything else might be better descriptions, but *that* discussion is what would be moot in my view.

    >> To my mind, the 'a' denotes a change that's deemed too small for
    >> even increasing the fourth digit '8' to a '9', which means v5.0.5.8
    >> got a tiny update and was thus followed by v5.0.5.8a.

    > if you still want to believe that, then you might as well believe
    > what you like, as you don't want to trust me

    This is not about trust but about plausability. For the outlined reasons, I find my explanation regarding the intended meaning of the 'a' suffix way more plausible than your explanation. That's all. I'm also unsure why I should trust you regarding what Deron intended to indicate with the 'a' suffix, unless he gave you the explanation of it (which you didn't claim he did) or you regard yourself as a mind reader.

    > He used to withold certain questions asked [...] from me on the
    > Yahoo Groups mailing list, [...] so he never posted them to the
    > Group, [...] or do you think I am making that up as well?

    I see no reason to not believe you that this is what happened.

    > Maybe the "penny will drop" for you then, and you might even accept
    > what I have said as fair, and factual.

    The more I read what you write, the more I get the impression that you're reading things into my comments that aren't there, and that you are inferring a perceived stance of mine about PageStream (non-)development that isn't my actual stance. What I indeed do not accept as factual is what you've written about the year of PageStream v4 release and about the intended meaning of the 'a' in the 5.0.5.8a version number.

    >> it seems all 2010 and newer releases in the list of PageStream
    >> releases are beta releases, with some of them correctly denoted
    >> as beta in the title while others are missing the beta denotation.

    > It doesn't matter if they were called alpha or beta releases

    Then why do you keep replying to this if it doesn't matter to you? I think I've been very clear since comment #56 on what I've been intending to talk about, namely Deron's own designations of his PageStream releases, not what you or I think the releases should be called. We are on the very same page regarding the latter, I reckon.
    If something I write doesn't matter to you, then please feel free to save your precious time and effort by simply ignoring such comment instead of trying to make points regarding things that you now say don't matter to you.
  • »20.11.20 - 10:40
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 966 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote: - We are on the very same page regarding the latter, I reckon.

    Then I think I understand your perspective, and I'll leave the discussion there, but Deron made some very poor mistakes while developing PageStream v5, IMHO, and still should complete PageStream v5 for MorphOS, seeing as Frank and Christoph have gone out of their way to do their very best to make it easier to achieve this and make it a realistic and completable project. Earlier in the year (2020) I thought this might happen, but I would frankly be amazed if it did - even though he replied to me "recently" to confirm he was working on completing it.
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »20.11.20 - 12:22
    Profile
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    _coliN_
    Posts: 61 from 2003/4/30
    From: Hessen, Germany
    Quote:

    NewSense wrote:
    @ _coliN_ - Are you using that/those versions of PageStream 5.0.5.8 on actual 68k Amiga hardware?


    Hi!

    It is the actual PPC-Demo for MorphOS, you can download at the moment on the hompage.
    The funny thing is, that the archive is named as no-pro version, but inside is the binary of the pro-version...
    And this binary works the best of all 5th demos. I use - (or better.) trying it on my Pegasos I. YOu can insert images and text without hangups, and saving and exporting of such docs doesnt work in the normal betas.
    Also I have the impression, that the demo is working better with every MorphOS update. Dont know the reason,
    but perhaps the fixing and programming of MUI and other libs makes Pagestream working better with the years...? ;)
    But this is only a simple guess...

    Regards!

    Bo
  • »20.11.20 - 18:32
    Profile
  • MorphOS Developer
    zukow
    Posts: 568 from 2005/2/9
    From: Poland
    Where is this demo on PageStream site?
  • »20.11.20 - 20:45
    Profile Visit Website
  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    _coliN_
    Posts: 61 from 2003/4/30
    From: Hessen, Germany
    Quote:

    zukow wrote:
    Where is this demo on PageStream site?


    I tried it out. It is only available for registered user with an account.
    You must log in, and then its available in the downloads section.
  • »21.11.20 - 18:20
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 966 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    I've been a registered PageStream user since about 2002, but the only files in the Demo List for my profile are:

    Demos

    Linux-i64 - PageStream 5.0.5.8 Demo 2010-10-11 22,426,935 bytes Download
    Linux-PPC - PageStream 5.0.2.12 Demo 2006-02-28 14,648,171 bytes Download
    Linux-x86 - PageStream 5.0.5.8 Demo 2010-10-11 16,508,250 bytes Download
    Mac-OSX - PageStream 5.0.5.9 Demo 2012-09-20 29,497,186 bytes Download
    Mac-OSX - PageStream v5.0.5.8 Demo 2010-10-11 27,249,002 bytes Download
    Windows - PageStream 5.0.5.8 Demo 2010-10-11 19,878,139 bytes Download

    I've never seen a MorphOS Demo in the list anyway - have you paid for a MorphOS version previously?

    Otherwise this seems quite strange? :-?
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »22.11.20 - 06:01
    Profile
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 114 from 2017/8/6
    These two on top of the list?
    Quote:

    PageStream 5.0.5.8 beta MorphOS-PPC
    Dated 2014-05-07 - 19.7 mb

    To download this file, you must be a registered owner of this product and be signed in to your account.

    Otherwise, you may purchase this product to download it.

    Quote:

    PageStream 5.0.5.8 beta Pro MorphOS-PPC
    Dated 2014-05-07 - 19.7 mb

    To download this file, you must be a registered owner of this product and be signed in to your account.

    Otherwise, you may purchase this product to download it.
  • »22.11.20 - 07:23
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    NewSense
    Posts: 966 from 2012/11/10
    From: Manchester, UK/GB
    @ amifrog - So, are you registered with PageStream as a previous buyer of the MorphOS version?

    I'm currently not a registered buyer of the MorphOS version of PageStream, and I cannot get a reply from Deron on the subject of him working on PageStream for MorphOS, or any other OS versions of PageStream currently. Though I've been waiting for him to reply on the PageStream Forums to me for several weeks already.
    MacMini 1.5GHz,10,2,64MB VRAM,1GB,Airport, Bluetooth,A1016 Keyboard,T-RB22 Mouse,DVD-RW-DL+CD-RW,Iomega MiniMax,Belkin 6 port 3 x Firewire/3 x, USB2, MorphOS 3.12, Mac OSX 10.4/10.5, A1138+A1139 PwrBk MOS v3.12,Model 5,8/5,9, & PowerMac G5 2.3GHz(DP)
  • »22.11.20 - 12:10
    Profile
  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 114 from 2017/8/6
    No, i am not. i only own PS 4.x and another update to it, so i also cannot download those versions for MorphOS. So i can see all the files but cannot download any.
  • »22.11.20 - 12:15
    Profile
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Amigaharry2
    Posts: 754 from 2010/1/6
    From: EU-Austria (Wien)
    Useing PS as registrated user for many years (since I bought my A3000 in 1990).

    Im also testing version 5.0.5.8., but is'nt very stable (G5, PB,Peg2). It has some window-refreshing problems and Tool-windows are not draggable, prefs window is only horizontal-sizeable and so on......
    During work on slightly complex documents, sometimes it freezes on some operations for a long time or complete (requieres then system reboot).
    This version is also far away to be used professional.

    Version 4.1.5.6 (68K) useing under MOS has also some starting and font issues. Sometimes it starts and sometime in hangs during start.The strange thing: runing SnoopDOS parallel, it starts always complete!! This behaviour occours sometimes on my A3000(060) too. Think there is a conflict between global and local prefs - have'nt figured out till yet.
    Fonts are not found, even though assings are set and fonts are at the right places (directories).

    Only Version 4.0.9 works (nearly) flawless (under MOS).

    To download all versions you have to be a registrated buyer of PS! Then you can see all files on your webbaccount.

    [ Editiert durch Amigaharry2 27.11.2020 - 14:14 ]
    Peg2, 3xPowerMac G5, 2xPowerbookG4, 2x MacMiniG4, Efika (again), A3000T and life is never boring.....
  • »22.11.20 - 17:04
    Profile
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 275 from 2003/7/26
    From: Chicago, IL
    Hope springs eternal for a new version of Pagestream 5.0 Pro without bugs for MorphOS. I paid for it over 15 years ago so a new update would be nice to have. It’s been a long time, so I’m not holding my breath on that one.

    [ Edited by discreetfx 27.11.2020 - 05:57 ]
    DiscreetFX
    Making your
    Digital Films
    More Effective!
  • »27.11.20 - 11:56
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