New low-end ppc by Freescale
  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2050 from 2003/6/4
    PPC seems not to be completely dead (yet). At least Freescale added a new member to their more or less famous 512x family - the 5125.
    Two things are intersting with this chip:
    1st the fact that it is there (recently it seemed Freescale wouldn't do anything new in ppc-land except QorIQ).
    2nd the price: A unit comes at 10.95 in bulk volume orders.

    Features:
    400 MHz e300. Less than 1W uptake.
    Build in units: DDR conroller 200 MHz, DIU, usb 2.0, two fast Ethernet units, flash and SDHC controller, CAN, I2C, progammable battery operated clock, 32KB local SRAM. Missing: audio and (s)ata. The latter is IMHO for such a low end chip acceptable, given that a flash and SDHC controller is present and at these low end devices a limited flash amount will do. For more storage there is usb or ethernet.

    What does it mean for MorphOS? Probably nothing, but IMHO it is nice to see Freescale not having abandoned ppc completetly (yet).

    Link from Freescale: http://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/prod_brief/MPC5125PB.pdf?fpsp=1
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »10.04.10 - 23:52
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Dreamcast270mhz
    Posts: 152 from 2009/12/9
    From: Virginia,USA
    It won't for a while. In fact, in the server and embedded market, PPC is ubiquitous and x86 is much less pronounced (Because a server doesn't have to have an i7 to run an OS fast
    My Macs:
    Powerbook G4 ALU 1.5GHZ 15" 1.5GB OSX.5.8
    Powermac G4 MDD 1.5GHZ OSX.5.8 MOS2.7

    Want a part for a Mac? Let me know, I'll see what I can do.

    Amithlon is amazing, questions and help I can provide.
  • »11.04.10 - 00:00
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
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    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 15.05.2011 - 08:46 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »11.04.10 - 00:37
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    Zylesea wrote:
    PPC seems not to be completely dead (yet). At least Freescale added a new member to their more or less famous 512x family - the 5125.


    I actually didn't think the 5125 would make it...

    Quote:

    What does it mean for MorphOS? Probably nothing


    Nothing indeed...

    Quote:

    but IMHO it is nice to see Freescale not having abandoned ppc completetly (yet).


    It has been in the pipeline for a few years. This PPC family still has use of course. Particularly in the automotive industry, which is what it targets. Freescale has a PPC license, they have invested a lot in it, etc. But as I see things, there is no reason to why not the Freescale *ARM* series of CPU's wouldn't fit into that segment in the future...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »11.04.10 - 00:49
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12026 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Freescale added a new member to their more or less famous 512x family - the 5125.
    > Link from Freescale:
    > http://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/prod_brief/MPC5125PB.pdf?fpsp=1

    As expected:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6428&forum=3#65042

    The PDF file you linked to hasn't changed since back when I linked to it in August 2009.

    There is a Freescale press release from 5 days ago:

    http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1409646


    Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEJmgamfhLI (video presentation)

    [ Edited by Andreas_Wolf on 2010/9/28 18:52 ]
  • »11.04.10 - 04:40
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    on the contrary, when i check the specs, it is obvious that PPC is dead, as it turned into low end cheap cpu/socs you could use in cars, fridges and washing machines.
  • »11.04.10 - 09:50
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    DiskDoctor
    Posts: 306 from 2009/4/17
    From: Rzeszow, place...
    Quote:


    SoundSquare wrote:
    on the contrary, when i check the specs, it is obvious that PPC is dead, as it turned into low end cheap cpu/socs you could use in cars, fridges and washing machines.




    No way, pal. It ain't dead. Just getting ubiquitous. So what that the specs became embedded/SoC? MorphOS can run - potentially - on anything PPC and I'm proud of it also because of that.
    Was: Mac Mini PPC running MorphOS 2.4
    Now: Amiga Forever 2010 with AmiKit and AmigaSYS
    Not used: Icaros Desktop 1.2 (reason: no wifi)
    Planned soon: an OS4 system
    Shortly then: a MOS notebook (wifi is a must-have)
  • »11.04.10 - 10:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Zylesea
    Posts: 2050 from 2003/6/4
    Quote:


    SoundSquare wrote:
    on the contrary, when i check the specs, it is obvious that PPC is dead, as it turned into low end cheap cpu/socs you could use in cars, fridges and washing machines.




    PPC on the desktop is dead since Apple has switched, that's for sure. But high end and embedded is still there. recently the embedded market loked as it was lost too. Freescale focusing more or less only on ARM and QorIQ. But it seems there ist still demand for ppc in the embedded world.
    And while a 400MHz e300 is definitely nothing for serious computing today I am still surprised how useful an Efika can be (with more RAM it would be even more useful). For very basic stuff it is pretty useable, even OWB works surprisigly good on it (if only more RAM was available).
    --
    http://via.bckrs.de

    Whenever you're sad just remember the world is 4.543 billion years old and you somehow managed to exist at the same time as David Bowie.
    ...and Matthias , my friend - RIP
  • »11.04.10 - 13:01
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Velcro_SP
    Posts: 929 from 2003/7/13
    From: Universe
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    [ Edited by Velcro_SP 15.05.2011 - 08:44 ]
    Pegasos2 G3, 512 megs RAM
  • »11.04.10 - 14:27
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12026 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    Interesting to see who is Freescale's hardware and software partner regarding MPC5125 based systems (apart from the ADS5125 eval board by STx, that is):

    http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=TWR-MPC5125-KIT ("Partner Spotlight" on the right)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/train_ref_material/MPC512LB.pdf
    http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/train_ref_material/TWRMPC5125LINUXINST.pdf (from page 7 to end)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/user_guide/MPC512CYMNQSG.pdf (pages 6, 8, 9)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/user_guide/TWRMPC5125UM.pdf (top right corner of pages)
    http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/hardware_tools/schematics/TWRMPC5125SCH.pdf (bottom right corner of pages)
  • »11.04.10 - 14:42
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:

    PPC on the desktop is dead since Apple has switched, that's for sure. But high end and embedded is still there. recently the embedded market loked as it was lost too. Freescale focusing more or less only on ARM and QorIQ. But it seems there ist still demand for ppc in the embedded world.
    And while a 400MHz e300 is definitely nothing for serious computing today I am still surprised how useful an Efika can be (with more RAM it would be even more useful). For very basic stuff it is pretty useable, even OWB works surprisigly good on it (if only more RAM was available).


    of course i totally agree with it.
    It was already proven with the Efika that MorphOS can run well on very low end hardware, and in a brillant way. But i don't see the point in trying all freescale embedded stuff, i'd prefer morphOS now to try finding a high-end platform, something we miss since the Pegasos 2 (mac minis and powermacs don't make a huge difference, they improve a bit), something that will happen with the X1000 on the other side. The X1000 may be the last chance for MorphOS to get fast hardware before the unevitable switch to x86 starts being worked on.
  • »11.04.10 - 15:35
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  • Moderator
    Kronos
    Posts: 2215 from 2003/2/24
    Sofar I've heard nothing that would even suggest the A1X1K to be even close in performance to the top-notch G5-Apple. Depending on the CPU actually used and considering that the 2nd core will lay dormant for the forseeable future it might even have problems competing with 3rd-part G4-modules available for G4-PowerMacs.

    Sure G5 aren't supported and it's unsure if they ever will be, but once replaced the NVidia with a (reflashed) ATI card a port should become possible (and surely not harder than for the A1X1k).
  • »11.04.10 - 16:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12026 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > I'd like to see the 5121e with 512 megs or a gig of RAM.

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6436&forum=11&post_id=68695#68695

    > I don't think Freescale has abandoned PPC at all. Aren't they still making
    > stuff for cars etc.

    Yes, and for much more:

    http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/homepage.jsp?code=PCPPCP

    > and THTF's PPC computers sold in Asia, such as LimePC X-1?

    No.

    > Or does THTF make it all itself?

    Yes.
  • »12.04.10 - 00:05
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12026 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > when i check the specs, it is obvious that PPC is dead

    Huh? From the specs of one specific, low-cost and low-power PPC chip that just became available you conclude that the whole architecture is dead? Could you please explain that miraculous deduction?

    > as it turned into low end cheap cpu/socs you could use in
    > cars, fridges and washing machines.

    That's where PPC has been for ages, while at the same time being also available for more performance demanding domains.
  • »12.04.10 - 00:12
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12026 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > It has been in the pipeline for a few years.

    When did you first hear of the MPC5125? Before December 2008?

    > This PPC family still has use of course. Particularly in the automotive industry,
    > which is what it targets.

    ...among many more. See "Target Applications".
  • »12.04.10 - 00:37
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    Interesting to see who is Freescale's hardware and software partner

    http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/train_ref_material/MPC512LB.pdf


    Oh no! It's LimePC again!

    Life was soooo much more comfortable when we believed they died...

    That two sheet PDF document has the biggest LimeOS features covered that I've seen (yes, information is that scarce). It's titled "Lab Tutorial for LimeOS? Demo by LimePC". It features the usual X-Window desktop (which one was it?), mass storage access, multimedia abilities, internet browsing and Java virtual machine. Not bad, huh?
  • »12.04.10 - 11:07
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12026 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > we believed they died

    Actually, I never believed that. Wherefrom did you conclude that they had died? 7 months ago, Velcro_SP started a thread here on MZ to prove that they're alive and active in Asia:

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6436&forum=11

    > the usual X-Window desktop (which one was it?)

    https://morph.zone/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6176&forum=11#61275

    This in turn uses FVWM as X window manager.
  • »12.04.10 - 11:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    Where from did you conclude that they had died?


    Well, it's a general assumption, since all that buzz and no product reaching the general public. But it's true that the Cherrypal does exist, and even somebody here has one, working fine. I also red about the LimePC has been sold, only in China.
    Remember, those web sites haven't been updated in ages.

    Quote:

    uses FVWM as X window manager.


    Tanks!
  • »12.04.10 - 12:44
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:

    Huh? From the specs of one specific, low-cost and low-power PPC chip that just became available you conclude that the whole architecture is dead? Could you please explain that miraculous deduction?


    please Andrea don't pretend you don't get what i say because i don't expose it with your clinic only-the-facts-and-provide-links bot style. Yo know exactly what i mean by that. Of course PPC is not dead as an architecture, but it's dead as usable for MorphOS. You may get excited about new embedded products and that's fine with me, but we are at MorphZone, and our scope here is different. Unless the future of MorphOS is to become an OS for embedded gadgets. (yes i'm exagerating and no i don't have links to miracles).
  • »12.04.10 - 14:59
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12026 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >>> when i check the specs, it is obvious that PPC is dead

    >> Huh? From the specs of one specific, low-cost and low-power PPC chip that just became
    >> available you conclude that the whole architecture is dead? Could you please explain
    >> that miraculous deduction?

    > don't pretend you don't get what i say because i don't expose it with your clinic
    > only-the-facts-and-provide-links bot style.

    The reason I *really* don't get what you say is not that you don't provide links (whatever these would look like) but that your way of concluding doesn't make any sense.

    > Yo know exactly what i mean by that.

    No, I don't know.

    > Of course PPC is not dead as an architecture, but it's dead as usable for MorphOS.

    That still doesn't make sense. From the specs of one specific, low-cost and low-power PPC chip that just became available you conclude that PPC as usable for MorphOS is dead?
    I didn't say your statement (PPC is dead for MorphOS) per se is false. It's just that your way of concluding (new low-spec PPC chip released -> PPC is dead for MorphOS) is bogus. That would be like concluding from the release of a low-spec embedded x86 chip that x86 is dead for e.g. Windows. Would be silly, don't you agree?

    > You may get excited about new embedded products

    You may be fantasizing. Simply stating that a product exists does not mean getting excited about it, especially if it's just an answer to someone who denied the existence of that product. And you may remember that it wasn't even me who started this thread about the MPC5125.

    > we are at MorphZone, and our scope here is different.

    Yes, of course. But even in context of MorphOS your way of concluding doesn't make any sense.

    Btw, may I ask what do you conclude from the specs of PowerPC A2, APM83290/Titan, ACP34xx/Axxia/PPC476FP and QorIQ/e500mc in view of MorphOS?
  • »12.04.10 - 16:00
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12026 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    >> Where from did you conclude that they had died?

    > it's a general assumption, since all that buzz and no product reaching the general public.

    Seems you exclude the Far East from the "general public" ;-)

    > But it's true that the Cherrypal does exist

    Yes, the C120, which is being sold by Cherrypal, is still just a relabelled LimePC-X1/uBox by LimePC/THTF/MTC. So I think it's safe to assume that they are shipping to Cherrypal, which in turn requires them to be alive in some shape or form.

    > I also red about the LimePC has been sold, only in China.

    Yes, it's in Velcro_SP's thread that I linked to. And I doubt hat they're doing their businesses as a dead company ;-)

    > those web sites haven't been updated in ages.

    Huh? http://www.iseeuon.com was updated in January 2010 at least.
  • »12.04.10 - 18:15
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12026 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > It's apparently got [... ] 256 megs of RAM. [... ] MorphOS would run just fine on
    > this or the 5121e. They both have double the RAM of Efika.

    I think you're once again mixing up boards with CPUs. The amount of RAM in a device with either CPU solely depends on the design of the board. The CPUs themselves neither have any real RAM (except some small caches) nor dictate the exact amount of RAM to be installed on the board. For instance, there are MPC5121e based devices with double the RAM of Efika 5200B (e.g. LimePC-X1/uBox/C114, LimeBook/uBook) and MPC5121e based devices with quadruple the RAM of Efika 5200B (e.g. C120, ADS512101/"Hellrosa", G-MPC5121 Bali). Likewise, there are MPC5125 based devices with same amount of RAM like Efika 5200B (e.g. MPC5125SOM) and MPC5125 based devices with double the RAM of Efika 5200B (e.g. TWR-MPC5125). And finally, there are MPC5200B based devices with double the RAM of Efika 5200B (e.g. EM1A, EM1N, EK6N, F12N).
  • »12.04.10 - 22:09
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    Andreas_Wolf wrote:

    I think you're once again mixing up boards with CPUs.


    Are you sure his statement really needed correction? He is talking about that new development computer, not about the CPU alone, which never makes sense anyway.
    Alright, modern chips like these "SoC" do a hell of a lot of things that had to be done in separate chips years ago. But you still have to build a computer around them, and you can do it good or bad.
    Moreso, you can also do a fine computer around a crap CPU or SoC, if you are really determinate to do so.
    I guess we all here know what's a computer, and what's an individual computer component.
  • »13.04.10 - 09:33
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    Andreas_Wolf
    Posts: 12026 from 2003/5/22
    From: Germany
    > Are you sure his statement really needed correction?

    Yes, I am.

    > He is talking about that new development computer, not about the CPU alone

    Then which computer is that "5121e" supposed to be? AFAIK that's a chip, not a board.

    > I guess we all here know what's a computer, and what's an individual
    > computer component.

    I won't bet on it. Think about why I wrote "once again" ;-)
  • »13.04.10 - 10:23
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