Helios, a FireWire stack for MorphOS
  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Daff
    Posts: 212 from 2003/4/5
    Senior developer Guillaume "Yomgui" Roguez is currently working on a FireWire stack for MorphOS.

    All the funny history about that is here : http://blog.yomgui.fr/post/2008/12/08/Un-cadeau-de-noel-pour-MorphOS

    His objective is to integrate H?lios in a next version of MorphOS.

    We need Motion Studio now. :-)

    [ Edited by Genesi on 2008/12/13 10:19 ]
    Obligement - L'Amiga au maximum
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  • »08.12.08 - 15:55
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  • News Moderator
    News Moderator
    Darth_X
    Posts: 571 from 2003/2/10
    From: Vancouver Isla...
    Quote:


    Daff wrote:
    Senior developer Guillaume "Yomgui" Roguez is currently working on a FireWire stack for MorphOS.

    All the funny history about that is here : http://blog.yomgui.fr/post/2008/12/08/Un-cadeau-de-noel-pour-MorphOS

    His objective is to integrate H?lios in a next version of MorphOS.

    We need Motion Studio now. :-)


    We also need some powerful Hardware to run MorphOS on ;-)
    When you have eliminated all which is impossible,
    then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth!!! - Sherlock Holmes
  • »08.12.08 - 17:21
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  • News Moderator
    News Moderator
    Darth_X
    Posts: 571 from 2003/2/10
    From: Vancouver Isla...
    Wait! Just one second!!! Are those firewire ports on the back of my peg?!!! :lol:
    When you have eliminated all which is impossible,
    then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth!!! - Sherlock Holmes
  • »08.12.08 - 18:17
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Drako^lM
    Posts: 132 from 2005/8/10
    From: Poland , Chelm
    Wow .. Very good news
    Hardware :
    Power Mac G5 2.3 Ghz & MorphOS 3.x & OSX 10.5
    Mini G4 1.5 Ghz & MorphOS 3.x
    BlaBla Team Member -> http://blabla.ppa.pl
    AmiParty Team Member - http://www.chal.pl/
  • »08.12.08 - 22:20
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Cego
    Posts: 572 from 2006/5/28
    From: Germany
    could someone translate that article please? or just a quick summary?
    Powerbook G4@1,67GHz, 2GB DDR2 Ram, Radeon 9700, 60GB SSD, MorphOS 3.7
    PowerMac Dual G5 @2.3GHz, 4GB DDR Ram, Radeon 9600XT, 2x250GB HD, MorphOS 3.7, MacOS X Leopard 10.5.8
  • »08.12.08 - 23:12
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    xyphoid
    Posts: 870 from 2008/7/11
    From: Delaware, USA
    sorry best I could do!

    A Christmas gift for MorphOS?
    By Yomgui on Monday December 8 2008, 16:12 - Other projects - Permalink

    Long expected to be discontinued because the hotel killed on the financial profits (especially those of Intel) by its creators, here come the return of the stack FireWire/IEEE1394/Lynx/_ <insert your specially marque> for our favorite OS, well appointed MorphOS!
    VYes, VYes, VYes, you read it!
    If you have not seen yet, I had 30 years in August!
    Huh? What is the report? As you can see on my ticket birthday, I had a video camera in DV format (HDV same) and therefore with its small port 1394 ...
    Yeah it's cool but not cool at all Window ... making an application properly of the video is paid for, and yet they are gas!
    War of choice so that you have a good old Mac (not the case for me and it solves the problem not the price, oh no!) Or to hack soft to borrow a friend to finally say ouai that it really is a crap un casse head to work with.
    Well, bah is not too much choice and as I say we are regularly ever better served either by itself.
    So the camera was in August, not very happy balance of the existing early September was the trip to Canada (history of that purchase worth it) was late September, so the top Project was late September - early October.
    Like any good development that begins, I began to see if it was not already in progress (see the first link of the ticket). So I contacted Sonic who first attempted a port of the Linux stack (see always the first link, definitely!). Unfortunately given the Firewire in 2006, abandoned by his father, he decided it was more rewarding (dixit Sonic, I had e-mail) to continue. End of story.
    Too bad for users, cool for me (I finally ouai gives taf night at the same time ...) I jumped at the chance and began to collect the documentation after verifying the chipset up in my Peg1 and 2 a VIA VT6306 (IEEE1394-1995, 3 ports). This gives us:
    Standard IEEE1394a-1995 and its amendment of 2000 (useful for some explanations on the package type ID and Self-ROM);
    Standard ohci1394 that it is a layer of abstraction for designers like VIA chipset and we facilitate things for us designers drivers;
    datasheet of the VT6303, useful for the format of packets PHY layer.
    At the same time I take a lot of big skull to read all at the same time, I spend a little time on implementing Linux history to see if I understand the docs twisted little trivial of Firewire.
    And zou passage to the code beginning in early October by using the new SDK includes MorphOS 2.x some files not yet public when I write these lines elsewhere (lib PCIX to replace openpci for example).
    And I never attacked the PCI on MorphOS is still this project
    So here we are today (early December) and what happens?
    And after more than 2 weeks on a bug of the most subtle fool, idiot invented by your servant of subtle, I completely changing manages real-time bus topology (connections / disconnections of devices) and almost the asynchronous mode in sending Reception. It remains for me to:
    debug the code for receipt of requests for acquittals transmission;
    completely and correctly handle the types of packets' lock 'and' physical '(always asynchronous);
    send packets of responses to requests received packets;
    complete code layer 'device' to be seen by the user and where he can control;
    encode any part isochronous, the most interesting of course;
    make an already small 1394raw.device to play with.
    You will understand (how does it not?) Does this stack of the transport of data between nodes on the bus in 1394, control will be left to care libraries xxxxxxx.device (genus or dv1394.device sbp2.device well and even avc1394.device).
    If this works well I hope that is no less formal integration in 2.x MorphOS (3.x?) Like its counterpart USB: Poseidon.
    Well, that's for new
    PS: I told myself that I had forgotten something important: This battery is not a port, but something developed and MorphOS!


    [ Edited by xyphoid on 2008/12/8 18:54 ]
  • »08.12.08 - 23:51
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Drako^lM
    Posts: 132 from 2005/8/10
    From: Poland , Chelm
    thx for translate :)
    Hardware :
    Power Mac G5 2.3 Ghz & MorphOS 3.x & OSX 10.5
    Mini G4 1.5 Ghz & MorphOS 3.x
    BlaBla Team Member -> http://blabla.ppa.pl
    AmiParty Team Member - http://www.chal.pl/
  • »09.12.08 - 10:37
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    jcmarcos
    Posts: 1178 from 2003/3/13
    From: Pinto, Madrid ...
    Quote:

    Xenocide wrote:

    thx for translate


    Thank Google instead... Yomgui, are you around? Could you tell us some more details about this new Firewire stack? Can it be integrated in Poseidon, or is it a separate framework?
  • »09.12.08 - 12:44
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Yomgui
    Posts: 348 from 2004/8/31
    From: Québec - Canada
    Quote:

    Can it be integrated in Poseidon


    Are you joking?
    /me slap twice jcmarcos !

    Helios is a Firewire stack, Poseidon is a USB stack and not more.
    Do you want that TinyGL handles AHI also ? :-D

    ok, more seriously now:
    more details? hmmm read the fuc$$$ google translation :-D

    What to say... Helios is not a port of an existing stack but a real new development based on officials documentations. Even if I've taken a look on how Linux do the stuff, my design is not the same one (except for some obvious things or if the norm drives the code...)
    For exemple Helios uses mailbox based IPC and not callback like on Linux.
    And DMA context handlers are a bit differents in the way to build DMA descriptors.

    But it's sure that the norm well define the way to design your code in fact.

    Now, I'm concentrating my efforts on the 1394a-1995 norm supported by peg1&2 VIA chipset.
    After that why not to add support for the 1394b (FireWire800) norm.

    Another thing to know: it's a communication stack like Poseidon, and like this one protocol control is let to xxxxx.device. So don't expect to drive anything at the first release.
    When helios is finished, I'll work on a dv1394.device and a raw1394.device
    maybe if I've got a suffisent amount time a sbp2.device... or maybe one of us can code it ;-)

    [ Edited by Yomgui on 2008/12/10 9:56 ]
    And now... next project!
  • »09.12.08 - 17:16
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Crumb
    Posts: 698 from 2003/2/24
    From: aGaS & CUAZ Al...
    @Yomgui

    exciting development! do you think a bounty would motivate you?

    BTW, would it be complex to create some kind of mass_storage1394.device from the first release? Since Peg1&2 lack USB2 and external hard disk cases with firewire support are cheap it would be a good way to share data with peggy
  • »09.12.08 - 19:04
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  • Moderator
    Golem
    Posts: 766 from 2003/2/28
    From: Denmark
    @Crumb

    That's what sbp2 is for, also usb2 pci cards are cheap and easily available.
  • »09.12.08 - 19:22
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Yomgui
    Posts: 348 from 2004/8/31
    From: Québec - Canada
    As golem says, sbp2 (Serial Bus Protocol) is a protocol designed like the SCSI but using the ieee1394a-1995. SCSI = CD/DVD reader/burner, HDD, ... like the USB masstorage.device but with the power of the SCSI design.

    Now it's not an obvious thing and need some code ;-)

    I prefer to spend some time on the DV and the IEC-61883 (AV/C) in first, because I've a firewire HDV camera to use :-p

    Anyway, we've Blender, so we've a video editing tool on MorphOS.

    Another note: I thing (not done yet) that the user API should not be compatible with the Linux API, in particular that I'm using messages IPC.
    But a small layer should be possible to make this compatibility.
    So some works'll be required to port applications after ;-)

    Ah very important thing: I've not got yet all pdf of IEC-61883 norm, this papers cost at bit (or a lot).
    I think I'm not need all papers, just the 1 to 4. not the 5, 6 and 7.
    It's a total cost of 375 CHF on http://webstore.iec.ch.

    I've not need direct money to motivate me, other than to obtain documentations or hardware (possible to borrow it also).
    I'm already hyper motivated since 2002 with the start of the Python port ;-)
    But it's alway a pleasure to receive spontaneous donation on my paypal, even little ones. But it's a biggest pleasure to receive feedback and usage notes from users. That's all.
    For the money I've an official work, that pays sufficiently for now ;-)
    Sure, hopping that I'll not be fired one day :-(

    [ Edited by Yomgui on 2008/12/10 13:13 ]

    [ Edited by Yomgui on 2008/12/10 13:16 ]
    And now... next project!
  • »10.12.08 - 09:05
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1188 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:

    That's what sbp2 is for, also usb2 pci cards are cheap and easily available.


    indeed, but USB2 in Poseidon sucks (not related to Poseidon directly i think but to the driver). It's unstable, often slow, doesn't work with every usb2 devices, and easily crash with large transfers.

    Firewire would be great for managing external drives, better than usb2.
  • »10.12.08 - 10:13
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Yomgui
    Posts: 348 from 2004/8/31
    From: Québec - Canada
    @SSQ: maybe that helios will not be less crashware ;-)

    [ Edited by Yomgui on 2008/12/10 13:15 ]
    And now... next project!
  • »10.12.08 - 10:51
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1188 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    @Yomgui

    you should avoid that "SS" thing ! thanks ! (use SSQ instead if you want to make it shorter)
  • »10.12.08 - 11:14
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  • MorphOS Developer
    CISC
    Posts: 615 from 2005/8/27
    From: the land with ...
    Quote:

    Anyway, we've the ffmpeg.library and we've Blender (I should just make a new build using the MorphOS integrated ffmpeg.library), so we've video editing tools set in this way.


    *cough*, there is no such thing as ffmpeg.library... You might be thinking of av#?.library, but those never made it into the release (because I didn't have the time to do the necessary updates (and I still don't)). :P


    - CISC
  • »10.12.08 - 11:25
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Yomgui
    Posts: 348 from 2004/8/31
    From: Québec - Canada
    @CISC: wasn't released? ah? not in the 2.1? so it was my personal installation so...
    ...sorry sorry!

    anyway, Blender has the av*.library (but as static libs). that not change the purpose of the post.
    So, mplayer has also the static version?

    @SoundSquare (too long): ok, sorry too ;-) and for S2 ? :-)


    [ Edited by Yomgui on 2008/12/10 13:12 ]
    And now... next project!
  • »10.12.08 - 12:10
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  • rms
  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    rms
    Posts: 577 from 2004/11/27
    Quote:


    I prefer to spend some time on the DV and the IEC-61883 (AV/C) in first, because I've a firewire HDV camera to use :-p



    GREAT idea Yomgui, me too, I'm looking very much forward to be able to record DV (and DVCAM) quality video to the HD via Firewire on MorphOS.


    Quote:


    Anyway, we've Blender, so we've a video editing tool on MorphOS.



    Unfortunately I don't (yet) know the video editing possibilities in Blender but some stand alone professionnal editing tool like MovieShop would be really great.


    Keep on you great work, it's really nice to see that such projects arrice for our great OS :-)

    Regards

    Christoph
  • »11.12.08 - 06:23
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    koan
    Posts: 303 from 2005/11/21
    From: UK
    Blender is a Computer Graphics editing and rendering tool. It has no capabilities for editing video.

    Is there another "blender" I don't know about ?

    mencoder and ffmpeg are excellent programs for video coding and some processing but they are not designed for editing...
  • »12.12.08 - 03:30
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Yomgui
    Posts: 348 from 2004/8/31
    From: Québec - Canada
    Quote:

    It has no capabilities for editing video.


    humm..hmm.hmm...

    http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Manual/Video_Sequence_Editing

    :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o

    And it's available since early versions! 8-)

    [ Edited by Yomgui on 2008/12/12 11:50 ]
    And now... next project!
  • »12.12.08 - 08:31
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 423 from 2005/4/9
    From: magyarorszag/h...
    indeed, blender has a video editing part. i didnt believe myself until i checked and found that there is one:) but have to say that i was unable to load a single video file into it - i know i was the lame, but still, not very intuitive. maybe with this manual youmgui pasted here (thx!).
    DEAD pegII/G4@1000.1gb ram.radeon 9200pro
    240 gigz hd.nec dvdrw.MorphOS 2.4 DEAD
    -=-=-=-
    amiga1200T.blizzardppc@180/040@25.96megz ram
    -=-=-=-=-
    zx.spectrum@3.5
  • »12.12.08 - 13:19
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Yomgui
    Posts: 348 from 2004/8/31
    From: Québec - Canada
    And.. humm... I need to double check if I've built a version with av* lib inside... because w/o only jpeg/avi codec is available.
    And now... next project!
  • »12.12.08 - 16:10
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    koan
    Posts: 303 from 2005/11/21
    From: UK
    I was completely unaware of these features... that was my next question, does your MorphOS port include all required parts ? ;-)
  • »14.12.08 - 08:17
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Yomgui
    Posts: 348 from 2004/8/31
    From: Québec - Canada
    @Koan: By "required", what are you waiting? ;-)

    By "featuring", we've everything except:
    - the game mode: no time to adapt the Gcc > 3.x C++ code to 2.95.3.
    - the sculpt mode: need a special OpenGL features not given by the current TinyGL library (read/write accesses to the depth buffer).
    - Yafray: no time to continue the support.
    - Sound support: not working yet.

    But maybe in my latest archive I've not included the FFMPEG code...
    ...I'll check!

    Anyway, If some others questions are about Blender, open a new post please! Some readers may not know that this post contains these informations, because it's the Helios thread.

    Thx.

    Yomgui

    [ Edited by Yomgui on 2008/12/15 10:08 ]
    And now... next project!
  • »15.12.08 - 09:07
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Yomgui
    Posts: 348 from 2004/8/31
    From: Québec - Canada
    First stage of Helios done...
    I'll make a release package this evening and put it somewhere to make it public.
    And now... next project!
  • »26.01.09 - 10:38
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