Firewire Bounty
  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1914 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    For those wanting to get a bounty started or even for some good coders wanting to take on the challenge I have a few things for you. Apple has released the docs on how to get a stack built for consumer devices. There are several code sampes including the reference platform stack code to download and lots of docs for the stack and drivers. Shouldnt be to hard to get it going if you have the time to read through it.

    FIREWIRE REFERENCE STACK

    DEVICE DRIVERS AND OTHER CODE LINKS
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  • »17.09.05 - 14:14
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Bifford
    Posts: 275 from 2003/2/24
    From: Wiltshire, UK
    I'd be willing to donate the initial $30 to set this up, however I have no idea what the "goals" should be set to.

    Anyone??

    Bifford
    ========
    Bifford the Youngest

    My Website at: www.whiteharegames.co.uk/
  • »18.09.05 - 12:39
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1914 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    the basics are to get a working stack ported over, the stack code looks portable and from the people I talked to it is. I guess from there we need device drivers as well.
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  • »18.09.05 - 13:58
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    As stated in their latest Press Release, Genesi has now licensed a bunch of patent portfolios.

    One of them is "The 1394 Portfolio that includes essential and related patents owned by 1394 industry leaders Apple Computer, Inc., Canon, Inc., Hitachi, Ltd., Koninklijke Philips Electronics, N.V., LG Electronics Inc., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic), Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd., Sony Corporation, STMicroelectronics and Toshiba Corporation."

    :-o

    I hope that MorphOS will be able to benefit from this in some way! :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »06.10.05 - 17:12
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Bifford
    Posts: 275 from 2003/2/24
    From: Wiltshire, UK
    So, will the powers that be "ok" the bounty please so that I can provide the initial monies? while i actually have the money would be good (ie before i have to pay for my flat...!)

    Thanks.
    Sam
    ========
    Bifford the Youngest

    My Website at: www.whiteharegames.co.uk/
  • »06.10.05 - 18:40
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  • Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Acolyte of the Butterfly
    Posts: 140 from 2003/9/16
    From: aGas founder M...
    A FW bounty would be great!

    All pegasos has the very same hardware, so only one driver has to be made.
  • »06.10.05 - 18:50
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    Hi guys
    Although its a good idea for a FW bounty, you must understand its not a matter of getting sample code/docs etc but a matter of the low level amiga programming knowledge needed to write a MOS driver. There are literally only a handful of ppl in the world who can do this. With a couple of them on the os4 effort and the others very busy or workin on other mos projects or work.. eg. Frank Mariak, Ralph Schimdt....

    magnetic
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
    Quad Boot: MorphOS 2.7 | Amiga OS4.1 U4 | Ubuntu PPC GNU/Linux | OS X 10.4
  • »07.10.05 - 20:13
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Bifford
    Posts: 275 from 2003/2/24
    From: Wiltshire, UK
    @magnetic:

    WEll I for one would be more than happy to pay any of that "handful" to do the work needed for this, even if it takes them a while.

    While there is no immediate need for firewire it is becoming more and more popular and such a great shame to have the hardware for it but not be able to use it.

    And I'm sure they wouldn't mind the extra income either :-)

    Bifford
    ========
    Bifford the Youngest

    My Website at: www.whiteharegames.co.uk/
  • »07.10.05 - 21:23
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    Bifford
    IMHO its not so much the income as it is the time involved and the percieved need of getting it done. I mean realistically, the time involved to create the stack, for a handful of users?

    ;-)

    magnetic
    Pegasos 2 Rev 2B3 w/ Freescale 7447 "G4" @ 1ghz / 1gb Nanya Ram
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  • »08.10.05 - 05:06
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 537 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    Apart from that, the IEEE specifications for the firewire layer as well as all its device specifications are not free of charge (and you don't get them for free if you pay for using Firewire in your products to the patent pool consortium as well afaik). It also requires that you at least own a few devices to do proper testing. I doubt that donations would even cover the costs related to that.
    On the other hand, its quite suprising that the TCP stack bounty gathered "so much" money after all. At the end, you only get an outdated AmiTCP V3 stack in return which is not up to current standards. Afair, MorphOS' native stack is based on a more recent AmiTCP V4 version at least. Unfortunately, due to circumstances which have been discussed in public to death already, it didn't make it to release so far. But that's a different story ....

    Regards,
    pega-1
  • »08.10.05 - 12:15
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 278 from 2003/3/4
    I don't think the fact that the TCP/IP bounty got so much money is negative.
    People put money for what they want and for some people a native TCP stack (even if not up to current standards) is better than nothing (or chasing after old 68k stacks).

    On a similar subject I hope that the KHTML bounty will get more money than currently because a decent web browser is something most users need to avoid to use a PC / Mac on the side of their Pegasos.

    Firewire stack ? Yes I would like one if I had an NLE software.
    For mass storage USB2 would be great.

    Needless to say I love when the MorphOS team surprise us with a release.
  • »08.10.05 - 18:42
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    magnetic
    Posts: 2129 from 2003/3/1
    From: Los Angeles
    cyfm

    Thanks for posting to let people know the realitiy of it. If you guys arent aware pega-1 is Frank Mariak one of the Fathers of MOS and one of the few that could do it. As he described its not very practical...

    as far as the tcp stack it echoes many things said before as there exsists a nice native stack that will come in next release afaik.


    @cdfr
    Perhaps a USB 2.0 stack (extension to Poseidon 1.1 stack) would make a good bounty... and alot more realistic

    magnetic
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  • »09.10.05 - 16:45
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Krashan
    Posts: 1107 from 2003/6/11
    From: Białystok...
    as there exsists a nice native stack that will come in next release afaik

    But you must assume first that there will be any next release, which is not clear.
  • »09.10.05 - 17:28
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  • Order of the Butterfly
    Order of the Butterfly
    Posts: 408 from 2004/7/15
    From: Russia, Moscow
    Quote:


    pega-1 wrote:

    On the other hand, its quite suprising that the TCP stack bounty gathered "so much" money after all. At the end, you only get an outdated AmiTCP V3 stack in return which is not up to current standards.



    You just don't know. It's already v4, not v3. Socket events code is being finished.
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  • »10.10.05 - 08:01
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    @cdfr

    Quote:

    On a similar subject I hope that the KHTML bounty will get more money


    It will! :-)


    @pega-1 & magnetic

    I agree with Krashan here. There has been talk about this "native TCP/IP stack" for years and years, and while we all understand the reasons behind it not being released, facts still remains; it is *not* released, and people *need* a solid TCP/IP solution! Since there are no hints about when (or even *if*) a native TCP/IP stack might get released, I am not at all surprised by the popularity of this bounty. Not surprised at all ...
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »10.10.05 - 13:26
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1914 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    I feel just the same way. I plan to put in a nice chunk of change when the DHCP starts getting worked on. Its a great bounty and deserves a lot of money for the ammount of time that needs to be put into it. Just look at the ammount its collected so far compaired to the AROS one! That alone should tell others just how much we all want this completed.
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  • »10.10.05 - 13:41
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    pega-1 wrote:
    Apart from that, the IEEE specifications for the firewire layer as well as all its device specifications are not free of charge (and you don't get them for free if you pay for using Firewire in your products to the patent pool consortium as well afaik).


    Doesn't the problem consist of two parts, one technological and one juridical? You will need documentation, specifications, etc in order to create the actual thing, and then you will need a proper license to use it in a real, commercial product?

    I have not looked too deeply into them myself, but what were the links Acill posted? AFAIK, those would provide everything you need to get going, with documentation, example code and everything? And then the license Genesi acquired could bring the right to use it commercially?

    Quote:

    It also requires that you at least own a few devices to do proper testing. I doubt that donations would even cover the costs related to that.


    No, not really, not from a *bounty* project at least. What's required is *access* to a bunch of devices (which is not at all the same thing as owning them). It could be solved I think! But then (AFAIK) a lot of developments has been funded by giving HW gadgets as payment, and for a developer looking at this from *that* POV, a creative arrangement on a bounty level project might look less feasable ...? :-)
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »10.10.05 - 13:56
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  • MorphOS Developer
    cyfm
    Posts: 537 from 2003/4/11
    From: Germany
    Quote:


    Sonic wrote:
    Quote:


    pega-1 wrote:

    On the other hand, its quite suprising that the TCP stack bounty gathered "so much" money after all. At the end, you only get an outdated AmiTCP V3 stack in return which is not up to current standards.



    You just don't know. It's already v4, not v3. Socket events code is being finished.


    I'm not talking about IP v4 versus IP v3, I am talking about AmiTCP versions. There is a free version 3 source code available and MorphOS uses version 4 which has been paid for in order to be used. At least I would wonder how you could get your hands on a version 4 while for the use inside MorphOS money had to be paid ...

    bye
    Frank
  • »10.10.05 - 14:11
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  • Butterfly
    Butterfly
    zacman
    Posts: 86 from 2003/2/26
    >Since there are no hints about when (or even
    >*if*) a native TCP/IP stack might get released, I
    >am not at all surprised by the popularity of this
    >bounty.

    The main problem IMHO is if the MorphOS 1.5 is
    released with its own TCP/IP stack it is probably
    incompatible with the bounty stack and will
    therefore block it. And then people have spent lots
    of money for a stack which they won't be able to
    ever use.

    IMHO from the beginning the bounties should have
    been limited to project which are for sure no
    system components on which also the MorphOS
    Team is working on. Bounties for system
    components like TCP/IP, 3d drivers, etc. make no
    sense. You also don't want a bounty for a new asl,
    intuition or cybergfx library, do you?
  • »10.10.05 - 14:27
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    SoundSquare
    Posts: 1213 from 2004/12/1
    From: Paris, France
    Quote:


    IMHO from the beginning the bounties should have
    been limited to project which are for sure no
    system components on which also the MorphOS
    Team is working on. Bounties for system
    components like TCP/IP, 3d drivers, etc. make no
    sense. You also don't want a bounty for a new asl,
    intuition or cybergfx library, do you?



    most of MorphOS users are tired of waiting for the holy 1.5 graal. The amount of money reached by the bounties are only proving it.
  • »10.10.05 - 14:39
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  • Yokemate of Keyboards
    Yokemate of Keyboards
    takemehomegrandma
    Posts: 2720 from 2003/2/24
    Quote:


    zacman wrote:
    >Since there are no hints about when (or even
    >*if*) a native TCP/IP stack might get released, I
    >am not at all surprised by the popularity of this
    >bounty.

    The main problem IMHO is if the MorphOS 1.5 is
    released with its own TCP/IP stack it is probably
    incompatible with the bounty stack and will
    therefore block it. And then people have spent lots
    of money for a stack which they won't be able to
    ever use.

    IMHO from the beginning the bounties should have
    been limited to project which are for sure no
    system components on which also the MorphOS
    Team is working on. Bounties for system
    components like TCP/IP, 3d drivers, etc. make no
    sense. You also don't want a bounty for a new asl,
    intuition or cybergfx library, do you?



    This can't possibly be news to anyone. Originally, as far as I remember, the "MorphOS native" TCP/IP stack was scheduled for MorphOS1.4. The stack has been demonstrated at various public events ever since, as has the Gigabit Ethernet driver (AFAIK). Everyone who donated to this bounty must have done so fully knowing that there will/might be an official TCP/IP stack released at some point. This bounty will bring an interim solution, and/or a permanent alternative. :-)

    Edit: However, this is off topic in this *Firewire* thread! ;-)

    [ Edited by takemehomegrandma on 2005/10/10 18:01 ]
    MorphOS is Amiga done right! :-)
    MorphOS NG will be AROS done right! :-)
  • »10.10.05 - 16:00
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  • Paladin of the Pegasos
    Paladin of the Pegasos
    Acill
    Posts: 1914 from 2003/10/19
    From: Port Hueneme, Ca.
    ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Development_Kits/FireWireSDK21.dmg

    To everyone interested in a firewire stack. The above file is the SDK which includes the firewire stack source code for OS X panther and tiger. Enjoy. If you cant get in let me know and I will download in from my developer account access and post it on my site.
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  • »04.03.06 - 06:13
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 867 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Quote:

    zacman wrote:
    The main problem IMHO is if the MorphOS 1.5 is
    released with its own TCP/IP stack it is probably
    incompatible with the bounty stack and will
    therefore block it. And then people have spent lots
    of money for a stack which they won't be able to
    ever use.


    Or, alternatively, they could pay no money at all and wait forever for a stack they won't be able to ever use.
  • »04.03.06 - 21:04
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  • MorphOS Developer
    Henes
    Posts: 507 from 2003/6/14
    You used to say the same thing about most of the now finished and released stuff.
    Yawn...
  • »04.03.06 - 22:02
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  • Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    Priest of the Order of the Butterfly
    KennyR
    Posts: 867 from 2003/3/4
    From: #AmigaZeux, Gu...
    Really? Care to list any?
  • »04.03.06 - 22:08
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